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Do you think this country was founded upon Christianity?

Do you think the U.S. was intended to be a Christian Nation?

  • Yes

    Votes: 28 19.4%
  • No

    Votes: 99 68.8%
  • other

    Votes: 17 11.8%

  • Total voters
    144
Yes i know! i already admitmented to Blackdog that i was wrong about the majority thing. I am only stating now that Jefferson , Franklin, and Paine were not Christians.

Good. I'm glad you know now that that's not the majority of the Founders. :p
 
Both Franklin and Jefferson follow Christ's teachings. They might not have believed in his divinity (and, frankly, I don't know if I do either). There are segments of the Christian community that do not believe that Christ = God.

Franklin stated he was a deist. Jefferson ridiculed Jesus' divinity, said it was a fabrication of the clergy.

Jefferson (and Franklin) did not necessarily 'follow' Jesus' teachings, but said he respected his philosophy.
 
Thomas Jefferson ....
I am a Christian in the only sense in which He wished anyone to be: sincerely attached to His doctrines in preference to all others. --66. Thomas Jefferson, Memoir, Correspondence, and Miscellanies from the Papers of Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Randolph, editor (Boston: Grey & Bowen, 1830), Vol. III, p. 506, to Benjamin Rush, April 21, 1803

I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ. -- Thomas Jefferson, The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, Albert Ellery Bergh, editor (Washington, D.C.: The Thomas Jefferson Memorial Association, 1904), Vol. XIV, p. 385, to Charles Thomson on January 9, 1816

"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which lives and abides for ever: But the word of the Lord endures for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached to you."(1 Peter 1:23,25)

"So then faith [comes] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."(Romans 10:17)

"And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said to him [Jesus], Blessed [is] the womb that bare you, and the paps which you have sucked. But he said, Yea rather, blessed [are] they that hear the word of God, and keep it."(Luke 11:27,28)

"For this cause also we thank God without ceasing, because, when you received the word of God which you heard of us, you received [it] not [as] the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually works also in you that believe."(1 Thessalonians 2:13)


So those who would call themselves Christians should receive the words of the Bible to be "by inspiration of God," and not as words of man. Here is what the Bible says about itself:

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:"(2 Timothy 3:16)

He was not in any way a Christian according to the Bible and gospel he decided to rewrite.
 
You don't think JWs are Christians?

They are not. Never have been and never will be.

The answer to the question is, "No. It is not Christian." Like all non-Christian cults, the Jehovah's Witness organization distorts the essential doctrines of Christianity. It denies the deity of Christ, His physical resurrection, and salvation by grace. This alone makes it non-Christian. To support its erring doctrines, the Watchtower organization (which is the author and teacher of all official Jehovah's Witness theology), has even altered the Bible to make it agree with its changing and non-Christian teachings. - http://www.carm.org/is-the-jehovahs-witness-religion-christian
 
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"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which lives and abides for ever: But the word of the Lord endures for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached to you."(1 Peter 1:23,25)

"So then faith [comes] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."(Romans 10:17)

"And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said to him [Jesus], Blessed [is] the womb that bare you, and the paps which you have sucked. But he said, Yea rather, blessed [are] they that hear the word of God, and keep it."(Luke 11:27,28)

"For this cause also we thank God without ceasing, because, when you received the word of God which you heard of us, you received [it] not [as] the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually works also in you that believe."(1 Thessalonians 2:13)


So those who would call themselves Christians should receive the words of the Bible to be "by inspiration of God," and not as words of man. Here is what the Bible says about itself:

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:"(2 Timothy 3:16)

He was not in any way a Christian according to the Bible and gospel he decided to rewrite.

That's fine if it's your opinion and he (and I, possibly) weren't/aren't Christians. Just wanted to prove that he actually DID call himself a Christian.
 
Hm....curious. Simply because they do not believe in the Trinity?

The answer to the question is, "No. It is not Christian." Like all non-Christian cults, the Jehovah's Witness organization distorts the essential doctrines of Christianity. It denies the deity of Christ, His physical resurrection, and salvation by grace. This alone makes it non-Christian. To support its erring doctrines, the Watchtower organization (which is the author and teacher of all official Jehovah's Witness theology), has even altered the Bible to make it agree with its changing and non-Christian teachings. - Is the Jehovah's Witness religion Christian? | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry
 
That's fine if it's your opinion and he (and I, possibly) weren't/aren't Christians. Just wanted to prove that he actually DID call himself a Christian.

Which proves nothing. By the definition and Bible he was not.

I agree with his statement as far as the moral teachings go, but it takes faith to be a Christian. Faith in God is something he simply did not have.
 
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No, it's absolutely accurate. Seriously, read some history.

Actually he was shown to be incorrect and admitted as much graciously. So this begs the question: Who needs to study some history?
 
Actually he was shown to be incorrect and admitted as much graciously. So this begs the question: Who needs to study some history?

I went back and read -- my bad. I missed the word "majority" -- but yes, many were indeed not Christians, especially some of the biggest names notably associated with the writing of the Declaration and the Constitution.

Sorry, I'm recovering from a kidney stone operation and have had too much percoset.
 
I went back and read -- my bad. I missed the word "majority" -- but yes, many were indeed not Christians, especially some of the biggest names notably associated with the writing of the Declaration and the Constitution.

Sorry, I'm recovering from a kidney stone operation and have had too much percoset.

Hope you feel better soon.
 
I went back and read -- my bad. I missed the word "majority" -- but yes, many were indeed not Christians, especially some of the biggest names notably associated with the writing of the Declaration and the Constitution.

Almost every single one was deeply religious (Paine was probably the least religious), a few weren't Christians...the majority were. As has been proven over and over and over again.
 
Almost every single one was deeply religious (Paine was probably the least religious), a few weren't Christians...the majority were. As has been proven over and over and over again.

Actually Paine was very religous, just because he hated the church and Christainity doesnt mean he wasnt religous like i said before if you read the "Age of Reason" you will find that he was a devote Deist.
 
Thomas Jefferson ....
I am a Christian in the only sense in which He wished anyone to be: sincerely attached to His doctrines in preference to all others. -- Thomas Jefferson, Memoir, Correspondence, and Miscellanies from the Papers of Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Randolph, editor (Boston: Grey & Bowen, 1830), Vol. III, p. 506, to Benjamin Rush, April 21, 1803

I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ. -- Thomas Jefferson, The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, Albert Ellery Bergh, editor (Washington, D.C.: The Thomas Jefferson Memorial Association, 1904), Vol. XIV, p. 385, to Charles Thomson on January 9, 1816

These dont prove anything if you read between the lines you will see that he considers himself a true "christain" because he admires Jeseus's teachings and doesnt follow the added "junk" as he probably would have put it that is why he edited his bible to only show passages from Jesus....i mean lol you can even buy copies of his edited versoin on the internet.
 
These dont prove anything if you read between the lines you will see that he considers himself a true "christain" because he admires Jeseus's teachings and doesnt follow the added "junk" as he probably would have put it that is why he edited his bible to only show passages from Jesus....i mean lol you can even buy copies of his edited versoin on the internet.

Yes, I have his edited Bible. I was simply showing Blackdog that TJ, indeed, called himself a Chrisitian.
 
Yes, I have his edited Bible. I was simply showing Blackdog that TJ, indeed, called himself a Chrisitian.

And he just repeated what I said. Thomas Jefferson was not calling himself a Christian in the true sense of the word. You cannot be a Christian and deny Christs divinity, period.
 
Yes, I know you're opinions on the matter Blackdog. We just keep repeating oursevles! :)
 
Yes, I know you're opinions on the matter Blackdog. We just keep repeating oursevles! :)

Mine is not based on opinion though, it is fact. As soon as you produce evidence to show them as other than fact we will have something. :mrgreen:
 
Jefferson did not believe in metaphysics, not just because it seemed to unlikely for the rational mind, but also because it was simply idle thought, when man could be accomplishing things in the concrete. Jesus was merely someone who we should model ourselves after, nothing more, thought Jefferson. He was a Christian in the sense that one is a follower or fellow-travelor of Ghandi, like many Americans thought of themselves in the 1950s through the 1970s-an admirer of a political, intellectual, and philosophical leader, rather than sharing that person's metaphysical views. This separates himself from Christian of the religion or spiritual faith and places his interest in Christ merely in his concrete doctrine with regard to mankind and how he should act. That is also why when he picked up some of Nicholas Steno's work, who pioneered the study of geology and later became a fervent Catholic, Jefferson thought his commentary on something supernatural or not regarding the creation of the Earth was not worth reading or considering.
 
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I hear all the time that "this is a Christian Nation". Do you think this is so.

I am going to go ahead and say anyone who truly thinks this country was meant to be a Christian nation is a complete moron. The founding fathers were secularist, there is some evidence indicating Thomas Jefferson was at least agnostic.

" The Christian god can easily be pictured as virtually the same god as the many ancient gods of past civilizations. The Christian god is a three headed monster; cruel, vengeful and capricious. If one wishes to know more of this raging, three headed beast-like god, one only needs to look at the caliber of people who say they serve him. They are always of two classes; fools and hypocrites. To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." -Thomas Jefferson

While the nation was certainly founded on Christian principals and is a Christian nation, the current government was not founded on any religion.
 
While the nation was certainly founded on Christian principals and is a Christian nation, the current government was not founded on any religion.

Our system of government was patterned after the Roman system of government that was developed when Rome was Pagan. And the Greeks contributed alot too with their notions of democracy that again were developed when the majority were Pagan in religion.
 
No, it's absolutely accurate. Seriously, read some history.

For real! I already told em to read the Federalist Papers. Honestly some are blinded by dogma:(
 
For real! I already told em to read the Federalist Papers. Honestly some are blinded by dogma:(

LOL! Groucho already said he was wrong. And so are you. Yet you continue to believe things that just aren't true. Why is that?
 
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