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Do you think this country was founded upon Christianity?

Do you think the U.S. was intended to be a Christian Nation?

  • Yes

    Votes: 28 19.4%
  • No

    Votes: 99 68.8%
  • other

    Votes: 17 11.8%

  • Total voters
    144
What do you think the phrase "The Myth of Separation" means?

From the Wall Builders website:

WallBuilders' goal is to exert a direct and positive influence in government, education, and the family by (1) educating the nation concerning the Godly foundation of our country; (2) providing information to federal, state, and local officials as they develop public policies which reflect Biblical values; and (3) encouraging Christians to be involved in the civic arena.

More on the goals of David Barton:
http://www.beliefnet.com/News/Politics/2004/10/David-Barton-The-Myth-Of-Church-State-Separation.aspx
Barton's main contention is that the separation of church and state was never intended by the nation's founders; he says it was created by the Supreme Court in the 20th Century. The back cover of his 1989 book, "The Myth of Separation," proclaims: "This book proves that separation of church and state is a myth."

Do you know what reconstructionism is, Mellie? Or are you going to play disengenuous naif?
 
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What do you think the phrase "The Myth of Separation" means?

I don't guess what people mean. I actually read what they say about it. Are you going to post anything he actually SAID about it?
 
I think the country was founded upon Christian morals and the rights we have are ours because the founders believed the Christian God gave them to us.

christian morals included the inquisition. our country was founded by imperfect men who didn't necessarily hold the same religious views and to pretend otherwise is just silly.
 
so instead it was you googling quotes. thanks.
 
What do you think the phrase "The Myth of Separation" means?

From the Wall Builders website:



More on the goals of David Barton:
The Bush campaign has hired David Barton who calls the U.S. a 'Christian nation'- Beliefnet.com


Do you know what reconstructionism is, Mellie? Or are you going to play disengenuous naif?

1. I haven't read his book and neither have you obviously so I can't say exactly what he means by that. If he's saying that our country was supposed to be a theocracy, then that's completely wrong.

2. What Biblical values do you disagree with? (And don't give me a list of Old Covenant crap. Since Christ, the Old Covenant was abolished.) If you have a problem with it, then you have a problem with Jews, not Christians.

Besides, we already have laws based on Biblical values.
 
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More on David Barton:

Barton writes: "In July 1987, God impressed me to do two things. First, I was to search the library and find the date that prayer had been prohibited in public schools. Second, I was to obtain a record of national SAT scores (the academic test given to prospective college-bound high school students) spanning several decades. I didn't know why, but I somehow knew that these two pieces of information would be very important."


As a result, Barton writes that he learned America has declined because of the 1962 and '63 Supreme Court rulings banning school-sponsored prayer. He believes God is angry at the country and has retaliated.
 
christian morals included the inquisition. our country was founded by imperfect men who didn't necessarily hold the same religious views and to pretend otherwise is just silly.

Christian morals include what the Bible says. Our laws reflect Judeo-Christian ethics. We have our rights because the constitution says we were given them by our Creator (the Christian God). The Constitution was ratified in "the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven..." The "Year of our Lord" upholds Jesus as their Lord. Christianity influenced our constitution, morals, and founding fathers.
 
1. I haven't read his book and neither have you obviously so I can't say exactly what he means by that. If he's saying that our country was supposed to be a theocracy, then that's completely wrong.

2. What Biblical values do you disagree with? (And don't give me a list of Old Covenant crap. Since Christ, the Old Covenant was abolished.) If you have a problem with it, then you have a problem with Jews, not Christians.
Besides, we already have laws based on Biblical values.

What laws, Mellie, do we have that are based upon explicitly BIBLICAL values?
 
Just curious, Catz....why do you continue to post OTHER people's interpretations instead of the actual primary sources? Your paragraph that begins "As a result..." isn't Barton's words. What are HIS words exactly?

(I think I'll agree with him if they are what the paraphrase suggests...)
 
What laws, Mellie, do we have that are based upon explicitly BIBLICAL values?

Murder
Robbery
Identity theft (stealing)
Not paying your taxes (give unto Ceasar...)
 
But I've proven sufficiently that the US was in no way founded on fundamentalist Christianity, nor was it intented to be a theocracy.

Could you please point me to the poster that argued it was intended to be a theocracy? I'm interested to see if its user name is "STRAWMAN2010"
 
Murder
Robbery
Identity theft (stealing)
Not paying your taxes (give unto Ceasar...)

None of these are explicitly christian principles or laws based explicitly on christian beliefs.
 
None of these are explicitly christian principles or laws based explicitly on christian beliefs.

Of course not. Yet they are things which are considered "wrong" Biblically.
 
Of course not. Yet they are things which are considered "wrong" Biblically.

Yes. However they're things considered wrong by other holy books, other government structures, and other philisophical belief structures as well so claiming them as "proof" of an explicitely Christian foundation is erronious becasue for it to be such proof those things would need to be SINGULAR to Christianity.
 
To put it another way...

A person is able to make money through doing work.

However, saying that someone has money proves that they work is incorrect because there's other ways to get it.

Likewise, a person is able to come to the belief that murder/theft/etc is illegal through christian teaching.

However, saying that someone believing murder/theft/etc should be illegal proves that its due to them being christian is against incorrect because there's other ways to get to that conclussion.
 
Your poll and your thread title are two completely different questions. Some of the founding fathers were Christians, and their religion probably influenced them, so the question the thread title is asking would have a "partially" answer, but the question you are asking in your poll is a complete and absolute "NO!"
 
My life-long goal now is to establish a religion that both picks Thomas Jefferson's pocket and breaks his leg.
 
I'm fairly sure his pocket and legs have already disintegrated. :p
 
Just include time travel in your religion, you might get extra worshippers!
 
Murder
Robbery
Identity theft (stealing)
Not paying your taxes (give unto Ceasar...)

One would note that there are 10 commandments which are central to Christian doctrine. Of the 10 commandments, 3 have made it to law. Murder, theft, and bearing false witness. The last one is illegal only in a court of law under oath. And those three also happen to line up with the rights and liberties of individuals. So of the 10 commandments, 3 are law giving you 30%, a failing grade in any class.
 
These acts were illegal in societies long before Jesus Christ ostensibly walked the earth. Code of Hammurabi @ Gavel2Gavel.com ||| Summary and Full Text
Ancient Greek Legal System
Roman law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'm guessing you weren't a history major.

I haven't seen pwn4g3 like this in a long time but then again I haven't seen any supporting evidence for our country being founded on 'Christian Principles' or 'Values'. None whatsoever. Show me a single reference to Representative Republics in Christian texts? What about anything remotely resembling the idea of Congress? Which 'Christian values' were used when creating this country? This idea Christians have that somehow 'Christian values' created or helped create this country are fooling themselves or worse being dishonest. Is slavery a Christian value? What about the subjugation of women? Which Christian values are they talking about that helped shape, create or mold this country'?
 
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