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Should police be required to shoot to wound suspects who threatening their lives?

Should police be required to shoot to wound suspects who threatening their lives?


  • Total voters
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if they feel the need to pull their weapon, then they feel they are in mortal danger and should shoot to kill.

That's not necessarily true. If they feel the need to shoot their weapon, then they should shoot to kill.

I've had a cop who felt the need to pull his weapon on me when I wasn't even commiting a crime. I was paining a friend's condo and his dumbass neighbor saw me smoking outside when I was taking a break and called the police.

The cop came to the patio door which was open for ventilation purposes and opened it. I asked if there was a problem and he said "Do you live here?"

I said "No" and before I could finish saying "I'm painting the place" I had a gun in my face and I was being told to get on the ground.

Well, things got cleared up fairly quickly once I got the chance to explain. The cop even appologized to me for pulling hs gun, and I told him "No problem. I'd have doen the same thing if I was you. I'm just happy that I'm wearing overalls. I can just throw them away instead of having to clean the **** out of them".

Anyway, the point is that he wasn't in any danger but he was justified in pulling his weapon.

Apparently the dumbass neighbor said I was an asian guy. How the **** she came to that conclusion nobody will ever know. Basically, he needed to neutralize any possible threat form me while his partner looked around for this mythical asian guy.

In the end, the whole situation was pretty funny. If he had decided that he was in mortal danger and shot to kill, though, nobody would have been laughing.


Edited to add: On the tazer issue, if he had had a tazer instead of a gun and had actually shot me with it, it would have been ****ing hilarious. Painful, but hilarious.
 
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A weapon is not a pre-requisite for use of a tazer.
This is the 2nd time Ive had to mention this to you.
One also does not have to be in the process of beating another person down before the tazer can be used. I don't have enough detail to comment on the rest of the story. But I can only assume there is alot more to the story than you would let on if the tazer was used.
Wow, second time. Will a third time get me tazed? You seem to have an attitude problem, certainly a bias. If you are saying that cops are never wrong, then you are wrong. I have seen videos of cops using tear gas directly into the eyes of protestors, not violent criminals, but protestors. That action indicates an asswipe is in charge of the cops at that scene, that being whoever ordered it done. I have seen videos of cops pulling other cops off a perp, a handcuffed, on the ground perp, one that just wrecked his car after leading the cops on a chase. Yes, he endangered others, but the danger is over, the perp is on the ground, restrained, and the cop starts kicking him.
Cops who can't control their anger should find another line of work.
 
Concerning the death, yes, family members reported their side of the story, which matched the cops story. He had no way of knowing the man would die, it was a freakish situation. THAT cop wasn't an asswipe, but he surely could have handled THAT situation better.

Tell me. How would you have handled subduing a naked man who isn't responsive to requests to surrender himself ot officers? What do you think the officers SHOULD have done? A tazer is generally a safe, non-permanent method of obtaining compliance that beats the hell out of using a baton to subdue a resistant suspect.

Do I have bias? I'm not a cop. I've just watched them do their jobs, and I've seen how fast these scenarios spin out of control. A guy who is having a psychotic episode may not be susceptible to pain, use of pressure points, and can even be freakishly strong. You're commenting about this because you have an axe to grind against particular cops, and because you've become convinced that a lot of cops are badge-heavy thugs.

Are there bad cops? Sure. But there are a lot less of them than most people believe, and their jobs are a lot harder than you seem to think they are. There are only so many ways to subdue a person who doesn't want to be arrested, Bill. Getting into a wrestling match is likely to cause the officer serious harm, not to mention the suspect.
 
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Tucker, you MUST have had a weapon on you, what was it, roller or brush?

Again in southern Utah, middle of nowhere, I stopped a few years back to warn an officer about a dangerous situation about a mile back, a stalled car left ON THE ROAD. He was in his car writing a ticket for a speeder, and when he saw me approaching on foot he got very beligerent and ordered me to stand back until he was done with the speeder. That was before I even started talking. I tried to say something, but all he could do was yell at me, he was in no mood for listening. He was clearly already agitated so I said forget it and started walking back to my car. He then reconsidered and asked if I had an emergency to report. Well duh.....
I told him about the stalled car left on the road and a lady walking back to town. It would be a long walk for her. I was just at the point of turning around when I saw the cop car so I figured he would want to know.

I suppose if I had continued approaching him, I would have met Mr. Tazer. Give a guy a toy and he WILL play with it. And give SOME guys a bit of authority and it will go to his head. Again, SOME cops should find other ways to make a living.
 
Again in southern Utah, middle of nowhere, I stopped a few years back to warn an officer about a dangerous situation about a mile back, a stalled car left ON THE ROAD. He was in his car writing a ticket for a speeder, and when he saw me approaching on foot he got very beligerent and ordered me to stand back until he was done with the speeder. That was before I even started talking. I tried to say something, but all he could do was yell at me, he was in no mood for listening. He was clearly already agitated so I said forget it and started walking back to my car. He then reconsidered and asked if I had an emergency to report. Well duh.....

I think I understand now. Cops who work in S. Utah work large patrol beats ALONE. They stop cars frequently that are trafficking drugs between Arizona and/or Southern California up to Utah or farther north up I-15. They deal with a high percentage of people in those cars who are armed because there are more guns than people in the state of Utah.

That officer is trained to focus his/her attention on the car that he/she has stopped for safety reasons. I've seen cops shot and killed or severely wounded during traffic stops like the one you described. A friend of mine was involved in a traffic stop of an 18th street gang member who ended up shooting him 11 times with an AK-47. He was permanently disabled, but amazingly, survived.

If an officer tells you not to approach his/her car until he/she has finished dealing with the business they are engaged in, FOLLOW THEIR INSTRUCTIONS. There is a good reason for them. That officer is trained to control the scene of a traffic stop (or any other scene), and that includes not allowing distractions during the process. Not only does the officer have to worry about safety risks from the car that he's stopped, but several officers in Utah have also been killed because idiots on I-15 HIT THEIR STOPPED VEHICLES ON THE SIDE OF THE ROAD, including a guy I worked with for several years.

That's a lot to pay attention to without you blundering into the middle of it like some happy-go-lucky well-intentioned idiot.

I would recommend watching this video before you get behind the wheel again.
 
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Tell me. How would you have handled subduing a naked man who isn't responsive to requests to surrender himself ot officers? What do you think the officers SHOULD have done? A tazer is generally a safe, non-permanent method of obtaining compliance that beats the hell out of using a baton to subdue a resistant suspect.

Do I have bias? I'm not a cop. I've just watched them do their jobs, and I've seen how fast these scenarios spin out of control. A guy who is having a psychotic episode may not be susceptible to pain, use of pressure points, and can even be freakishly strong. You're commenting about this because you have an axe to grind against particular cops, and because you've become convinced that a lot of cops are badge-heavy thugs.

Are there bad cops? Sure. But there are a lot less of them than most people believe, and their jobs are a lot harder than you seem to think they are. There are only so many ways to subdue a person who doesn't want to be arrested, Bill. Getting into a wrestling match is likely to cause the officer serious harm, not to mention the suspect.
WOW, just WOW. Are YOU seriously going to put your words in my mouth? Edit my posts, maybe? Where did I imply a LOT OF COPS are thugs? Or ANY cop is a thug, a thug being a criminal.
How would I have handled it? He wasn't that far from his town, he could have called for an ambulance and backup to help subdue a deranged person.
 
I think I understand now. Cops who work in S. Utah work large patrol beats ALONE. They stop cars frequently that are trafficking drugs between Arizona and/or Southern California up to Utah or farther north up I-15. They deal with a high percentage of people in those cars who are armed because there are more guns than people in the state of Utah.

That officer is trained to focus his/her attention on the car that he/she has stopped for safety reasons. I've seen cops shot and killed or severely wounded during traffic stops like the one you described. A friend of mine was involved in a traffic stop of an 18th street gang member who ended up shooting him 11 times with an AK-47. He was permanently disabled, but amazingly, survived.

If an officer tells you not to approach his/her car until he/she has finished dealing with the business they are engaged in, FOLLOW THEIR INSTRUCTIONS. There is a good reason for them. That officer is trained to control the scene of a traffic stop (or any other scene), and that includes not allowing distractions during the process. Not only does the officer have to worry about safety risks from the car that he's stopped, but several officers in Utah have also been killed because idiots on I-15 HIT THEIR STOPPED VEHICLES ON THE SIDE OF THE ROAD, including a guy I worked with for several years.

That's a lot to pay attention to without you blundering into the middle of it like some happy-go-lucky well-intentioned idiot.

I would recommend watching this video before you get behind the wheel again.

YouTube - L.A.P.D Training Video Feat. Chris Rock
Wasn't I-15, it was just east of Hurricane, Utah. He was traveling with family.

I see that now I am an idiot, as well as having an axe to grind against cops. I made it clear earlier that I know more than a few cops, as friends and neighbors, and one that I had previously served in the Navy with. He was fired, btw, since his overly agressive attitude didn't work well in a small town. Can you make one response to me without calling me names or distorting my contribution to this thread?
 
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I had to give thanks for the video.
 
Tucker, you MUST have had a weapon on you, what was it, roller or brush?

I was thinking about it afterward to see if I had done something that made the cop jumpier.

I think as I was saying no, I started to gesture towards the back bedroom where I was doing the majority of the painting (I was still taking a break when the cop arrived). To him it might have looked like something else.

Either way, after learning the situation he thought he was going into, seeing me and not an Asian, and me gesturing to the back, I don't fault him at all for pulling the gun.

IMO, he was perfectly justified in pulling the gun.

Had he shot me, it would have been definitely out of line. Especially from my point of view. :lol:

Now, if it was a Tazer instead of a gun he would have been just as justified in pulling it, but not shooting it (since I was very slow and deliberate in my hand raising and going to the floor and made no quick or threatening moves at all).

Now, my calm reaction to the situation was the right one to have. If I freaked out and did something stupid, I could have been shot.

If I got shot with a bullet for for a stupid reaction it would have been a tragedy. Judging by the cops reaction to even having pulled his gun in the situation (I could tell he genuinely felt bad about it) he would have been devastated if I ended up getting shot for having a stupid reaction.

If I got hit with a tazer, it more than likely would not have been a tragedy (unless I had an unusual reaction to the tazing). I'd guess that he would still have felt bad about tazing me once it was discovered that I had done nothing wrong. While I would find the fact that I got tazed over painting someone's house funny, I'd have probably been pissed off over it too.

Who I was pissed off at would depend on my reaction to having the tazer pointed at me. If I got tazed because I had a stupid panicky reaction, I'd be pissed off at myself. If I got tazed while having a calm and non-threatening response I'd be pissed at him. Granted, if I got tazed over having stupid reaction, it's a funnier story than if it was a stupid reaction by the cop, so that would make up for me being pissed at myself a little.
 
he could have called for an ambulance and backup to help subdue a deranged person.

The ambulance drivers would have relied on the cop to subdue the deranged and non-compliant man. They don't have guns that shoot tranquilizers like on wild kingdom (but a girl can dream, right?). Even if he'd called for backup, a physical struggle is much more likely to cause physical harm to the officers and the AP than a tazer.
 
Wasn't I-15, it was just east of Hurricane, Utah. He was traveling with family.

Was he engaged in a traffic stop or not? You stated that he had a car pulled over and was writing a speeding ticket.

I see that now I am an idiot, as well as having an axe to grind against cops. I made it clear earlier that I know more than a few cops, as friends and neighbors, and one that I had previously served in the Navy with.

Knowing police officers personally is different from understanding how cops are trained to handle a scene.

He was fired, btw, since his overly agressive attitude didn't work well in a small town.

If you blunder into the middle of a car stop and expect the officer to stop what he is doing and devote his full attention to you, when this flies in the face of all of his training and the policies of his agency, don't expect him to blow you kisses and ask for a group hug. That's ridiculously stupid behavior.
 
The ambulance drivers would have relied on the cop to subdue the deranged and non-compliant man. They don't have guns that shoot tranquilizers like on wild kingdom (but a girl can dream, right?). Even if he'd called for backup, a physical struggle is much more likely to cause physical harm to the officers and the AP than a tazer.

You got to admit that would be awesome if they did.
 
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The ambulance drivers would have relied on the cop to subdue the deranged and non-compliant man. They don't have guns that shoot tranquilizers like on wild kingdom (but a girl can dream, right?). Even if he'd called for backup, a physical struggle is much more likely to cause physical harm to the officers and the AP than a tazer.

Please read more carefully, I said ambulance AND backup, the backup would be the help he needs to subdue the man. And some physical harm to the cops might have been cuts and scratches from the gravel on the side of the road. But I suppose the deranged man deserved to die, for not being compliant, right?
 
Was he engaged in a traffic stop or not? You stated that he had a car pulled over and was writing a speeding ticket.



Knowing police officers personally is different from understanding how cops are trained to handle a scene.



If you blunder into the middle of a car stop and expect the officer to stop what he is doing and devote his full attention to you, when this flies in the face of all of his training and the policies of his agency, don't expect him to blow you kisses and ask for a group hug. That's ridiculously stupid behavior.

Again, please read more carefully. There are THREE situations I am describing...one in town with an asswipe with an attitude who was trying to impress a potential date, and the other where someone got killed for being "non-compliant". In the second case, the cop is not being labeled an asswipe, just someone who could have handled that situation better. ANd the third was the beligerent cop who could have just asked what I wanted, but he was so out of control that he wouldn't let me speak at first. THERE ARE SOME who need to find less stressful employment, and those are the ones who will probablly screw up big time some day.

If you aren't going to read my posts completely, why do you bother to respond to them?
 
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Edited to add: On the tazer issue, if he had had a tazer instead of a gun and had actually shot me with it, it would have been ****ing hilarious. Painful, but hilarious.

He would have been incredibly wrong to do so as well.
 
Wow, second time. Will a third time get me tazed? You seem to have an attitude problem, certainly a bias. If you are saying that cops are never wrong, then you are wrong. I have seen videos of cops using tear gas directly into the eyes of protestors, not violent criminals, but protestors. That action indicates an asswipe is in charge of the cops at that scene, that being whoever ordered it done. I have seen videos of cops pulling other cops off a perp, a handcuffed, on the ground perp, one that just wrecked his car after leading the cops on a chase. Yes, he endangered others, but the danger is over, the perp is on the ground, restrained, and the cop starts kicking him.
Cops who can't control their anger should find another line of work.

Im not saying that cops are never wrong. I am saying I don't listen to media stories and family who weren't there stories about what happened and then crucify the police involved in a situation.

Working in policing I have seen the inside of what the REAL story is, and then what gets published to the public.

As far as the guy beating the handcuffed subject after a vehicle chase, foot chase, physical confrontation. The guy is wrong. I can understand though, that he is a human being, and I have heard many people make statements of wanting to beat people right here on this Debate Politics for much less than that. Apparently the public (you) think police are robots or something. Althought we do exercise great restraint, sometimes there are people who let their emotions get the best of them, I don't believe being human is a reason to get fired.
 
I don't believe being human is a reason to get fired.

I do if the position being fired from is an office which wields the power and soveriegnty of the People and the "being human" part is abuse of said power and improper actions against the rights and liberties of the People while wielding their power and authority.
 
Tucker, you MUST have had a weapon on you, what was it, roller or brush?

Again in southern Utah, middle of nowhere, I stopped a few years back to warn an officer about a dangerous situation about a mile back, a stalled car left ON THE ROAD. He was in his car writing a ticket for a speeder, and when he saw me approaching on foot he got very beligerent and ordered me to stand back until he was done with the speeder. That was before I even started talking. I tried to say something, but all he could do was yell at me, he was in no mood for listening. He was clearly already agitated so I said forget it and started walking back to my car. He then reconsidered and asked if I had an emergency to report. Well duh.....
I told him about the stalled car left on the road and a lady walking back to town. It would be a long walk for her. I was just at the point of turning around when I saw the cop car so I figured he would want to know.

I suppose if I had continued approaching him, I would have met Mr. Tazer. Give a guy a toy and he WILL play with it. And give SOME guys a bit of authority and it will go to his head. Again, SOME cops should find other ways to make a living.

Im having a laughable time trying to figure out how you didn't realize what you were doing.

You don't approach an officer on a traffic stop. Period. In this day of cell phones, all it takes is some thug gang banger or just a crazy group of people to call a friend in the area who makes it out there and shoots up the cop while he is doing his business. It HAS happened and WILL continue to happen. You don't sneak up on a cop on a stop and expect him to be all cordial about it.

And, I suppose if you had continued approaching him while he ordered you not to, you were showing clear signs that you didn't give a **** and possibly meant to do him harm, because normal people don't just ignore the police like that. So I would have rolled on the floor laughing while I watched the video of you getting tazed on youtube.

If you want to report a vehicle disabled and causing a traffic hazard. Call 911.
 
Im not saying that cops are never wrong. I am saying I don't listen to media stories and family who weren't there stories about what happened and then crucify the police involved in a situation.

Working in policing I have seen the inside of what the REAL story is, and then what gets published to the public.

As far as the guy beating the handcuffed subject after a vehicle chase, foot chase, physical confrontation. The guy is wrong. I can understand though, that he is a human being, and I have heard many people make statements of wanting to beat people right here on this Debate Politics for much less than that. Apparently the public (you) think police are robots or something. Althought we do exercise great restraint, sometimes there are people who let their emotions get the best of them, I don't believe being human is a reason to get fired.

How about a teacher who molests only one child? What if the child is a precocuous 16 year old who initiated the affair? What happens there?
The Teacher goes to prison.....unless it is a female teacher and male "child". That happened in AZ a few years back. Back to back cases, the male goes to prison, the female gets probation.
We hold public servants (I hate that term, but that is what the public likes to use) to a high standard. If being human means betraying the public trust, then again, and I can't say this enough, find some kind of employment that you can handle.
I have already said that I agree that most cops are good people, but if you live long enough, you too will find that no profession is immune when it comes to people who should quit and move on, for their own good.
 
I do if the position being fired from is an office which wields the power and soveriegnty of the People and the "being human" part is abuse of said power and improper actions against the rights and liberties of the People while wielding their power and authority.

Yeah, if it becomes a regular problem from the same officer or group of officers then sure.

One highly emotional driven incident isn't worth getting fired over.
 
One highly emotional driven incident isn't worth getting fired over.

It is if the position being fired from is an office which wields the power and soveriegnty of the People and the "being human" part is abuse of said power and improper actions against the rights and liberties of the People while wielding their power and authority.
 
WOW, just WOW. Are YOU seriously going to put your words in my mouth? Edit my posts, maybe? Where did I imply a LOT OF COPS are thugs? Or ANY cop is a thug, a thug being a criminal.
How would I have handled it? He wasn't that far from his town, he could have called for an ambulance and backup to help subdue a deranged person.

Yes, because getting injured by insane maniacs when they do not carry tools for self defense is a part of a paramedics job.
 
Yeah, if it becomes a regular problem from the same officer or group of officers then sure.

One highly emotional driven incident isn't worth getting fired over.
depends on the outcome....an officer injuring perp is one thing, a seriously maimed or killed perp, that is another....
Sucks, but that is how it goes. Anyone can be a great guy or gal, and make just ONE mistake, and pay for it the rest of his life. No amount of good evaluations and/or awards will allow for that one really stupid mistake.
Tain't fair, but it is what it is....
 
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