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Gays in the Military

Should the law be changed so that gays can serve openly in the military.


  • Total voters
    96
The army does not believe in shower curtains. :2razz:

Seems like it would be a simple solution though. Put up a round bar above the shower head and hang a curtain on it.
 
I think that it'd make most female soldiers uncomfortable to the level of insecureness.
Basically I think it is a very very wrong decision that completely ignores the soldier's emotions as an individual.
I do however agree with gays serving in the military and I think that a creative solution should be found to the showers problem, but that is the only issue really.

How does Isreal handle it? I have no clue as to your age, so not sure if you have firsthand info, but are you aware of how they handle the situation?
 
Seems like it would be a simple solution though. Put up a round bar above the shower head and hang a curtain on it.

I'll tell you what, part of the purpose of the military shower booths not having curtains on them, besides being an economical bonus, is to contribute to the uniting of the unit.
It's part of the whole mentality that the military must enforce on its units in order to make them one united efficient order-carrying entity.
You live with your unit, eat with your unit, shower with your unit and sleep with your unit.
Every one of them is part of you and you are part of them.

But yes in that case it could be the simple solution.
 
You just said it.... Commander....lol

Im talking amongst the regular joes.


It WILL cause divisiveness amongst some units that regularly have to share facilities. Im not talking on a temporary basis, im talking the infantry guys who live in the ****ty ass barracks where they have shared latrines and showers.
I personally witnessed a chubby gay private in Basic Training get his ass beat by other recruits because it was learned that he was talking about the male recruits' penis sizes to the female recruits and some of the female recruits didnt find this amusing.
The gay was given an article 15 and allowed to continue training. He was booted out in less than a year.

Tank commander as in buck Sergent NCO, not officer. :lol:



Yea, as tankers we never shared facility's. :roll:



You mean like most of us in combat arms? Give me a break. Most of the time no one even had any idea. It's not like we sat around trying to figure out who was gay or not.



If he was straight the same thing would have happened. Not like men brag about their penises, oh wait. :lol:

And I can tell you story's of rape and assault that got people discharged who were straight.

Your argument is as out dated as my old M60A3.
Lets start with you.

Well why don't you start by responding to my reply rather than trying to make an argument that is rendered null since high school?
 
Well why don't you start by responding to my reply rather than trying to make an argument that is rendered null since high school?

Why did you leave out my actual response?
You know.. .the one that made you get personal?
 
Moderator's Warning:
Enough with the childish stuff. Talk about the topic, not the posters or how they post or any of that crap. Let's tone it down a notch.
 
Wouldnt have to spend time figuring it out, they would be openly gay. It would be BAM IN YO FACE. And everyone would know when Brad came walking in the shower that they were in the presense of a potential **** gazer.

Why did you leave out my actual response?
You know.. .the one that made you get personal?

There it is. Showering has little to do with anything. As I already said we have been showering with other men since high school. Made no difference gay or not. I guess expecting solders to be more professional than high schoolers is asking to much?

This also had little to do with most of my post.
 
How does Isreal handle it? I have no clue as to your age, so not sure if you have firsthand info, but are you aware of how they handle the situation?
I don't know how Isreal deals with it, but Israel has no such order as the DADT.
Gays would be accepted into every role in the military if they fit into it, and if the conditions enforce it they would indeed shower with the rest of their unit.
Thing is most of the gays are not being sent to the combat roles to begin with, and a big percentage amongst those who are sent to combat roles are not being open about their sexuality due to their conditions.
It's not that the military enforces homosexuals not to speak about their sexuality, it's more of a social enviroment thing that the homosexual individuals choose not to talk about it.
I do not doubt however that there are cases when gay soldiers are open about their sexuality and shower with their unit, but again, I've never met such case so I cannot judge.
I did however serve amongst gay soldiers, that have only later on opened up about their sexuality.
 
If every soldier and marine had his own room and bathroom(even in basic training) or if everything was coed I could see letting gays openly serve in the military. So until those things happen I say no, leave it as it is. Because unit cohesion is more important than gays being allowed to openly serve. I can see all the POGs(Persons other than Grunts,basically anybody in the military who is not infantry) in the military support repealing DADT because most of them are just civilians in soldiers clothes. I can see a lot of officers wanting to repeal DADT because alot of them do not share rooms,latrines or showers with other soldiers or marines so they do not think about these things nor do they care. I can see a lot of those who never served in the military support ending DADT seeing how most of them have this naive attitude that military is just like another job, something like working at a McDonalds or K-Mart.
 
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In all honestly, does this make any difference? I mean, is there a measurable affect from having openly gay people in the military? Or is it that some people think it's icky and that's all?
 
I don't know how Isreal deals with it, but Israel has no such order as the DADT.

They don't need it.

Gays would be accepted into every role in the military if they fit into it, and if the conditions enforce it they would indeed shower with the rest of their unit.
Thing is most of the gays are not being sent to the combat roles to begin with, and a big percentage amongst those who are sent to combat roles are not being open about their sexuality due to their conditions.

I know this is not true, but I will ask for evidence of this anyway.
 
If every soldier and marine had his own room and bathroom(even in basic training) or if everything was coed I could see letting gays openly serve in the military. So until those things happen I say no, leave it as it is. Because unit cohesion is more important than gays being allowed to openly serve. I can see all the POGs(Persons other than Grunts,basically anybody in the military who is not infantry) in the military support repealing DADT because most of them are just civilians in soldiers clothes. I can see a lot of officers wanting to repeal DADT because alot of them do not share rooms,latrines or showers with other soldiers or marines so they do not think about these things nor do they care. I can see a lot of those who never served in the military support ending DADT seeing how most of them have this naive attitude that military is just like another job, something like working at a McDonalds or K-Mart.

As I already said; we have been showering with other men since high school. Made no difference gay or not. I guess expecting solders to be more professional than high schoolers is asking to much?
 
They don't need it.



I know this is not true, but I will ask for evidence of this anyway.
I can't back that up with evidence since one would not be able to find statistics that seperate gays and straights in the Israeli military.
It's simply a feeling I personally hold.

Basically speaking however that statement cannot be false, since most recruits in general don't go to combat roles in the IDF, so the statement about gays is a private situation of that general statement.

By the way I've just recalled that there was a movie in Israel about gays in the military, called Yossi & Jagger.
You can look it up if you feel the need to research.
Here's the imdb page :Yossi & Jagger (2002)
 
As I already said; we have been showering with other men since high school. Made no difference gay or not. I guess expecting solders to be more professional than high schoolers is asking to much?
The only reason why back then it did not make a difference is because you did not know know if the guy showering next to you was a meat gazer. With DADT it was a not a issue because some meat gazer lustfully checking you out in the shower would get him kicked out. If you had a daughter would want her to shower with random guys and share the same room with random guys?
 
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I can't back that up with evidence since one would not be able to find statistics that seperate gays and straights in the Israeli military.
It's simply a feeling I personally hold.

I have no problem with it being your opinion. It's just that you stated it as fact, and it is not.

Basically speaking however that statement cannot be false, since most recruits in general don't go to combat roles in the IDF, so the statement about gays is a private situation of that general statement.

Then it makes no difference to the discussion at all. Because it affects everyone equally.

By the way I've just recalled that there was a movie in Israel about gays in the military, called Yossi & Jagger.
You can look it up if you feel the need to research.
Here's the imdb page :Yossi & Jagger (2002)

OK.
 
I've just checked it out with a friend; apparently in the IDF homosexuals that feel uncomfortable are allowed to ask their unit's commander, who is committed to secrecy by the IDF law, for special shower times, and apparently that's very common.

Besides that there's nothing stopping a gay person from showering with his own sex.
 
The only reason why back then it did not make a difference is because you did not know know if the guy showering next to you was a meat gazer. With DADT it was a not a issue because some meat gazer lustfully checking you out in the shower would get him kicked out. If you had a daughter would want her to shower with random guys and share the same room with random guys?

All I can say is wow, degrading homosexual men to nothing more than "meat gazzers". Really?

Like I've said before, if someone being openly homosexual is a problem to someone in the unit. It is not the homosexuals problem, it is the person who is uncomfortable. They need to get over their irrational homophobia, and be professionals. If they can't get over it, then they are the one causing the problem, and should be discharged.
 
This is very much my feeling. Why is it the fault of the gays that some people might feel uncomfortable?

no different than blaming a black guy because some racist white might not want him in the same platoon.

I went to a college that had lots of gays. Sure there were a few that hung out in the varsity locker facility steam room but the vast majority of gay guys were respectfully. They wouldn't leer at you or ogle you just like when my suitemate's oh so hot girlfriend was spending the night in his room we didn't hit on her or ogle her when she used the bathroom or took a shower. We all treated her like our sister not the stunning ballerina with a body to die for (our suitemate was a gymnast and dancer --they were a great pair)
 
The only reason why back then it did not make a difference is because you did not know know if the guy showering next to you was a meat gazer.

Meat gazer? :roll:

Plenty of gay high school students have showered with no issues in the last 30 years and were openly gay in many schools.

With DADT it was a not a issue because some meat gazer lustfully checking you out in the shower would get him kicked out.

Stereo type much?

If you had a daughter would want her to shower with random guys and share the same room with random guys?

Fallacy having no merit and adding nothing to this discussion at all.
 
I've just checked it out with a friend; apparently in the IDF homosexuals that feel uncomfortable are allowed to ask their unit's commander, who is committed to secrecy by the IDF law, for special shower times, and apparently that's very common.

Besides that there's nothing stopping a gay person from showering with his own sex.

Thank you for the information.
 
Since it looks like either this year or early next DADT will almost certainly be repealed, and the latest polling shows over 70 % support for allowing gays to serve openly, it's time to ask the basic question. Do you think the law should be changed so gays can serve openly in the military?

Absolutely.

I'm glad to see it's finally about to happen.

:)
 
I personally don't have an issue with it.

I'd feel better if this issue waited for the Pentagon to finish studying it; if there is little likelihood of it impacting general military readiness and the ranks will accept it, fine, go ahead.

All I'd say is that to me, the military's Job Number One is to be ready and able to fight wars with efficiency and effectiveness. Being fair, just, PC and equitable to all, is a priority that is FAR down the line. This isn't a college dorm, it is the sword arm of our nation. I just want us to be sure we are not going to blunt that weapon in the name of social change.

If the troops and the Pentagon are okay with it, I have no objections.
 
Plenty of gay high school students have showered with no issues in the last 30 years and were openly gay in many schools.

At what high schools? The ones in San Fransisco and Massachusetts? No offense but wasn't the last time you were in high school was the 1950s or 1960s? So how would you know what went on in the high schools or high school locker rooms in the last 30 years?



Fallacy having no merit and adding nothing to this discussion at all.


How would a coed shower and coed room sharing be different than heterosexuals and gays showering and sharing rooms together?
 
How would a coed shower and coed room sharing be different than heterosexuals and gays showering and sharing rooms together?


A co-ed shower?
You're comparing a bar of soap to a wheat thin. Those are two entirely different topics.
 
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