Muslims what do YOU think they really believe?

What do you think of this video?

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fSvyv0urTE"]YouTube- David Horowitz at UCSD 5/10/2010. Hosted by Young Americans for Freedom and DHFC[/nomedia]

IMO its basically a Muslim Extremist saying she supports the idea of hoping all jews gather together so they dont have to be "hunted" globally

do you think im right, or do you think all muslims want this, or most, or just some?

also do you think she did any thing wrong? should she be expelled? should that group be banned on campuses nation wide or its her right and its harmless?

I personally think she is an extremist and more than likely so is the group they are talking about IF they support those ideas and it should be banned from campus.

I think she gives muslims a bad name and in a time when tensions are high she is a disgrace and brings down the whole religion.

the first option should have said 10% or less

thats what I voted for

I could be wrong but theres tons of things that most religion preach or have in official scripture that people dont practice and I feel this is no different and consistent

O_Guru said:

What do you think of this video?

YouTube- David Horowitz at UCSD 5/10/2010. Hosted by Young Americans for Freedom and DHFC

IMO its basically a Muslim Extremist saying she supports the idea of hoping all jews gather together so they dont have to be "hunted" globally

do you think im right, or do you think all muslims want this, or most, or just some?

also do you think she did any thing wrong? should she be expelled? should that group be banned on campuses nation wide or its her right and its harmless?

I personally think she is an extremist and more than likely so is the group they are talking about IF they support those ideas and it should be banned from campus.

I think she gives muslims a bad name and in a time when tensions are high she is a disgrace and brings down the whole religion.

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Taking what someone may or may not have said seriously is definitelyy not productive, especially since there's so much propaganda going on out there from all sides.

ricksfolly

ricksfolly said:

Taking what someone may or may not have said seriously is definitelyy not productive, especially since there's so much propaganda going on out there from all sides.

ricksfolly

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ok
1.) she did say it
2.) I take it seriously that "she" said it but I dont by the propaganda that she reflects all nor do i apply what she said to all muslims

so unless your just making a geneal statement no need to qoute me?

I knew it was a good move to not have an anonymous poll, the 2 90% votes were done in secret or by nonmembers

not that theres anything technically wrong with thinking that, its your right, I would just love your insight has to why

O_Guru said:

I knew it was a good move to not have an anonymous poll, the 2 90% votes were done in secret or by nonmembers

not that theres anything technically wrong with thinking that, its your right, I would just love your insight has to why

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Yes, there is something wrong with that, no wonder they hate us.

I think there was many muslims who dislike Jews, but a very small minority are actually hateful enough to personally want to exterminate them from the Earth.

pro-bipartisan said:

Yes, there is something wrong with that, no wonder they hate us.

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well thats not quite what i meant
I meant people are free to think what they want not that the "logic" behind it is right

BUT
also in a way didnt you just group "them"
they dont all hate us or were you only referring to the ones that do?

O_Guru said:

well thats not quite what i meant
I meant people are free to think what they want not that the "logic" behind it is right

BUT
also in a way didnt you just group "them"
they dont all hate us or were you only referring to the ones that do?

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I won't lie, that was a nice one.

Jetboogieman said:

I think there was many muslims who dislike Jews, but a very small minority are actually hateful enough to personally want to exterminate them from the Earth.

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I can buy that has this is true for lots of religions not liking another religion, group, belief system or sinners

pro-bipartisan said:

I won't lie, that was a nice one.

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Ha!

I was just busting chops though nothing more

just showing how easy it can be to take someones words and make them paint a story that may or may not be there

I have friends who subscribe to Islam and know a range of other Muslims in Asia. There are a good number of people who think like the girl in the video, no doubt.. But her views don't represent the majority of Islamic followers. There are radicals in every religion but does this mean the vast majority of the followers support radicalism? No.

By the way, doesn't that guy with the gray hair at 0:59 look a little bit like Bill Clinton? :lol:

O_Guru said:

What do you think of this video?

YouTube- David Horowitz at UCSD 5/10/2010. Hosted by Young Americans for Freedom and DHFC

IMO its basically a Muslim Extremist saying she supports the idea of hoping all jews gather together so they dont have to be "hunted" globally

do you think im right, or do you think all muslims want this, or most, or just some?

also do you think she did any thing wrong? should she be expelled? should that group be banned on campuses nation wide or its her right and its harmless?

I personally think she is an extremist and more than likely so is the group they are talking about IF they support those ideas and it should be banned from campus.

I think she gives muslims a bad name and in a time when tensions are high she is a disgrace and brings down the whole religion.

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The Pew Global Attitudes Survey found that in the 6 Muslim majority countries surveyed all 6 had a 60% and higher unfavorable view of Jews. 60% unfavorable for Turkey, 74% for Pakistan, 76% for Indonesia, 99% for Lebanon, 100% for Jordan, and 88% for Morocco.

Islamic Extremism: Common Concern for Muslim and Western Publics | Pew Global Attitudes Project

So according to this report not only is anti-semitism a serious problem in the Muslim world but it is the mainstream vast majority viewpoint.

There's a striking difference however between having a negative feeling towards jews and having a genocidal feeling towards. The person in the video seemingly had the latter, wishing them to be in one place so as not to have to "hunt" for them.

Zyphlin said:

There's a striking difference however between having a negative feeling towards jews and having a genocidal feeling towards. The person in the video seemingly had the latter, wishing them to be in one place so as not to have to "hunt" for them.

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There is a degree of difference, yes, but only a complete apologist would fail to take people to task for their bigotry, especially inasmuch as the bigotry of those who are not actively violent supports the bigotry of those who are.

Agent Ferris said:

The Pew Global Attitudes Survey found that in the 6 Muslim majority countries surveyed all 6 had a 60% and higher unfavorable view of Jews. 60% unfavorable for Turkey, 74% for Pakistan, 76% for Indonesia, 99% for Lebanon, 100% for Jordan, and 88% for Morocco.

Islamic Extremism: Common Concern for Muslim and Western Publics | Pew Global Attitudes Project

So according to this report not only is anti-semitism a serious problem in the Muslim world but it is the mainstream vast majority viewpoint.

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and having supported yourself with legitimate statistics, it is now time for somebody to wade in and call you an "Islamophobe", call you ignorant while displaying they haven't the foggiest idea what they are talking about, and demand some different form of proof while producing absolutely none of their own.

Gardener said:

There is a degree of difference, yes, but only a complete apologist would fail to take people to task for their bigotry, especially inasmuch as the bigotry of those who are not actively violent supports the bigotry of those who are.

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There's a large degree of difference.

Lets take a poster here. Jamesrage. Jamesrage seems to have a very negative reaction in regards to illegal immigrants, especially ones from hispanic countries. His opinion of them seems to be very low. If you asked a survey "Do you have unfavorable attitudes towards illegal immigrants of Hispanic Descent" I'm sure he'd say yes. However if you asked him "Do you want all illegal immigrants gathered in a large group so you can murder them in large numbers" he'd probably say no.

If you asked me "Do you have a favorable or unfavorable opinion of MoveOn.Org members" in general I'd probably say unfavorable. If I was asked "Do you think we should round up all MoveOn.org members into a specific area so we can kill them all" it'd be a categorical no.

If you asked me "Do you have a favorable or unfavorable opinion of the French" in genera I'd probably say yes. Does this mean that I want them all rounded up and killed? Absolutely not.

There is not a single DEGREE of difference between having an unfavorable opinion and wanting the collection of the entire group so as to enact genocide upon them. There is actually quite a number of degrees of difference from one to the other.

What the guy in the video in the OP was proposing is proposterous and ridiculous. Its extremists like that which need to be weeded out and removed, ostracized, and not given credance to.

The difference is that person isn't on this board, actively spreading his bigoted and hateful message, and able to continue to make the argument. Somenoes else was.

Gardener said:

and having supported yourself with legitimate statistics, it is now time for somebody to wade in and call you an "Islamophobe", call you ignorant while displaying they haven't the foggiest idea what they are talking about, and demand some different form of proof while producing absolutely none of their own.

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Hmm, interesting. You don't complain or care at all about the bigotry displayed in trying to imply the people in these studies, because they have an unfavorable opinion, agree with the notion that there should be world wide genocide against Jews. What did someone say earlier, about not speaking out against bigotry...how'd it go....

Ah yes

but only a complete apologist would fail to take people to task for their bigotry

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Zyphlin said:

Hmm, interesting. You don't complain or care at all about the bigotry displayed in trying to imply the people in these studies, because they have an unfavorable opinion, agree with the notion that there should be world wide genocide against Jews. What did someone say earlier, about not speaking out against bigotry...how'd it go....

Ah yes

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Wow - -so you make a false claim as to an imagined implication and then say people are not reacting to it. :roll:

What else that exists only in your head are people failing to notice?

Gardener said:

Wow - -so you make a false claim as to an imagined implication and then say people are not reacting to it. :roll:

What else that exists only in your head are people failing to notice?

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Not imagined either.

I made the, what I would figure is rather logical, assumption that Agent Ferris was actually talking about the topic of this thread. The topic of this thread isn't whether or not a minority or majority of Muslim people in the world have an unfavorable opinion on Jews. The topic of this thread is whether or not a minority or majority of Muslim people in teh world have an opinion of Jews that matches the notion that they hope they all gather in one place so its easier to "hunt" them and essentially commit genocide.

Assuming that Agent isn't just attempting to enact a strawman and is actually sticking to the topic of the thread, it appeared that he was attempting to suggest that since a majority of muslims in a number of muslim countries have an unfavorable feeling towards jews that it somehow means that a majority of them agree with the sentiment expressed in the video at the start.

Or am I wrong and you think he was just enacting a strawman and trying to go off topic and change what we're discussing?

Zyphlin said:

Not imagined either.

I made the, what I would figure is rather logical, assumption that Agent Ferris was actually talking about the topic of this thread. The topic of this thread isn't whether or not a minority or majority of Muslim people in the world have an unfavorable opinion on Jews. The topic of this thread is whether or not a minority or majority of Muslim people in teh world have an opinion of Jews that matches the notion that they hope they all gather in one place so its easier to "hunt" them and essentially commit genocide.

Assuming that Agent isn't just attempting to enact a strawman and is actually sticking to the topic of the thread, it appeared that he was attempting to suggest that since a majority of muslims in a number of muslim countries have an unfavorable feeling towards jews that it somehow means that a majority of them agree with the sentiment expressed in the video at the start.

Or am I wrong and you think he was just enacting a strawman and trying to go off topic and change what we're discussing?

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How ironic that you would use the term "straw man". Having called out a poster by name who hasn't even appeared in this thread (very poor form in ANY forum), brought into question a completely different ethnicity and then indulged in a fallacious leap of logic, you then proceed to attack the notion you, and only you, have created.

If the issue is to be Muslim attitudes towards Jews, in order to gain a proper perspective, one must take into account the prevailing attitudes across the board. These more extreme attitudes do not simply crop up out of the blue, but rather, are simply the more outwardly expressed attitudes born form a general climate of hostility.

Ferris has actually provided some substance for his opinion. All you have provided is twaddle.

And lets just assume that Agent Ferris IS actually trying to be on topic and not create a strawman where he's trying to shift the topic to discussing simply negative views against jews rather than genocidal views on Jews.

So he presents the fact that these countries populations generally have a majority unfavorable view of Jews, thus leading to his implication that a majority of Muslims must agree with this above video's speaker.

However, lets look at other info his link provided but he didn't feel relevant to relate to us. Specifically, the view in these countries regarding Suicide Bombers...as you would think if these people, due to their unfavorable opinion of jews, are for the genocide of people they would be for the suicide bombs. And yet, there' a downward trend of support there in most cases.

In Lebanon under 40% feel its at times acceptable to target civilians in violence, down over 30% from previous highs. Over 30% feell its NEVER justified. Gives a different view of the likelihood of that 99% unfavorable population feeling they want it easier to "hunt" the jews.

Pakistan? Only 25% support it at times, where as almost double that feel its NEVER justified.

Indonesia, 15% sometimes compared to 66% NEVER

Turkey? 14% to 66%

Morocco, 13% compared to a whopping 79% for never.

The only country not showing a downard trend that was on his list is Jordan, and even Jordan despite the 100% unfavorable feeling towards Jews is sitting under 60% thinking its sometimes or often justified.

So while I absolutely, without a doubt, would say that anti-semitism is rampant and definitely the majority in countries holding a Muslim majority I could not say that the notion of genocide against Jews is a majority opinion shared amongst Muslim majority countries.

When talking about Muslims the world over for either of these notions, this gets trickier. Without actual information from American Muslims and European Muslims and their slants its hard to tell how much of this is religiously directed, how much of it is societally directed, and how much of it is proximity directed (for example, notice its some of the countries closest to Israel that have the highest unfavorables).

My honest guess...

I'd say, by and large when taking the entire muslim population within the world, that a small majority, probably in the 60% range, likely hold unfavorable opinion of jews. However, since this thread isn't about whether or not Muslims haev an unfavorable view of Jews but whether or not they hold genocidal views such as the person expressed in their hope for an easier "hunt", I would have to say that no...a relative small minority of Muslims within the world population actively have such views.

Gardener said:

How ironic that you would use the term "straw man". Having called out a poster by name who hasn't even appeared in this thread (very poor form in ANY forum), brought into question a completely different ethnicity and then indulged in a fallacious leap of logic, you then proceed to attack the notion you, and only you, have created.

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I haven't called anyone "out". Jamesrage is one of the forums most well known anti-illegal immigration posters. This isn't hidden knowledge. No where did I insult James, nor flame him, nor say anything that isn't really common knowledge really. James does not like illegal immigrants, James has a negative view on illegal immigrants, I'd likely put money that James isn't in favor of the mass genocide of said illegal immigrants. You apparently don't understand what a "call out it". That wasn't a call out, it was an analogy.

Having an unfavorable opinion about a group...be it a religion, an ethnicity, a organization, or anything else...does not equate to believing said group should be "Hunted" and killed.

If the issue is to be Muslim attitudes towards Jews, in order to gain a proper perspective, one must take into account the prevailing attitudes across the board. These more extreme attitudes do not simply crop up out of the blue, but rather, are simply the more outwardly expressed attitudes born form a general climate of hostility.

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True enough, however, while extremist attitudes can grow out of such climates that does not mean that everyone in those climates share those extremist views. This is not a question of whether or not unfavorable views of Jews leads to the genocidal thoughts, its a question of whether the majority actually hold said genocidal thoughts.

Ferris has actually provided some substance for his opinion. All you have provided is twaddle.

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Yes, he provided substance. Substance that shows that in muslim dominated countries there's an unfavorable opinion of Jews. Where have I disagreed with him on that. However I simply stated that having an unfavorable opinion of Jews does not equate into a desire for them to be in one place so as to make it easier to hunt and kill them. If Agent Ferris believes my assertion to be incorrect he is more than welcome to present how "unfavorable = genocidal". If you really want me to provide a link to something that's comon sense I can happily go to a dictionary and look up the word "unfavorable" for you as I can garauntee you within the definition it will not state "To wish genocide against".

Agent Ferris posted substance....that had nothing to do with the topic of this thread unless he was making the assertion that their unfavorable views meant that they agreed with the speaker in teh OP.

O_Guru said:

What do you think of this video?

YouTube- David Horowitz at UCSD 5/10/2010. Hosted by Young Americans for Freedom and DHFC

IMO its basically a Muslim Extremist saying she supports the idea of hoping all jews gather together so they dont have to be "hunted" globally

do you think im right, or do you think all muslims want this, or most, or just some?

also do you think she did any thing wrong? should she be expelled? should that group be banned on campuses nation wide or its her right and its harmless?

Click to expand...

I'd say that it's probably some, though probably not close to 25%. My best guess would be something in the mid teens. And she should not be banned from campuses. People are free to say as they like, even stupid and mean things. So long as she isn't inciting to riot (whatever the cops want that to mean at any given time), she can do as she likes.

Zyphlin said:

So while I absolutely, without a doubt, would say that anti-semitism is rampant and definitely the majority in countries holding a Muslim majority I could not say that the notion of genocide against Jews is a majority opinion shared amongst Muslim majority countries.

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I would agree with this ^

Should I accuse every poster in this thread who doesn't like Islam of wanting to round Muslims up in camps and kill them all? Disliking a group of people and wanting to kill them are miles apart.