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Overall, was feminism bad for America?

Overall, was feminism bad for America?

  • Yes, it was bad for America

    Votes: 12 17.9%

  • No, it was good for America

    Votes: 39 58.2%

  • A little bad and a little good. Overall it was neutral

    Votes: 3 4.5%

  • A little bad and a little good. It changed a lot but not one way or the other.

    Votes: 9 13.4%

  • Other...

    Votes: 5 7.5%
  • Total voters
    67
reefedjib said:
I'll take on the most emotionally charged portion of your post, Cat. It represents the good and the bad of feminism.

The good is that you are able to be financially independent and get out of a bad marriage and raise your kids on your own.

The bad is several fold.

First, you had to raise your kids on their own without a male role model and a family role model (at least you haven't mentioned one). Statistics show that your kids are more likely to divorce themselves, perpetuating the destruction of traditional families.

Secondly, your being an independent minded feminist may have contributed to the outcome of your marriage. If your husband was not able to deal with your non-traditional outlook, he may have become an abusive prick and stuck his dick in other women. These things do tend to take two to tango.

Thirdly, the combination of financial independence and non-traditional roles by women have disrupted the traditional family. Divorce for much lessor reasons than yours occurs regularly. People get tired of each other and when marriage is no longer fun and games and the real work starts, people have an easier time of ignoring their vows and quitting on each other. This destabilizes a foundation stone in our society. Secondary effects of single parent families are stark.

Lastly, the instability of the family causes women to have children out of wedlock. This perpetuates the problems.
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i have to ask your age, as i am amazed and appalled at some of your assumptions.
 
Tucker Case said:
The whole engagement ring ritual is sexist as all hell. It implies that women are materialistic AND it forces a man to symbolically bribe (with the ring) and beg (by getting on one knee) for his mates affection.

I absolutely despise the ritual on all fronts.
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I don't see it that way at all. I picked out the ring for my wife as a show of devotion and love. It is not gaudy and the wedding band was simple.

It is not a bribe for me. It is a material manifestation of my deep love and commitment to my wonderful wife.
 
Blackdog said:
I don't see it that way at all. I picked out the ring for my wife as a show of devotion and love. It is not gaudy and the wedding band was simple.

It is not a bribe for me. It is a material manifestation of my deep love and commitment to my wonderful wife.
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If one looks at it objectively, the bribing and begging symbolism is far more obvious than the deep love and commitment symbolism. The deep love and commitment aspect is why we are willing to symbolically bribe and beg for their affection, IMO.

That fact is why the obvious symbolism of the act is ignored in favor of the contrived symbolism, IMO.
 
Tucker Case said:
The whole engagement ring ritual is sexist as all hell. It implies that women are materialistic AND it forces a man to symbolically bribe (with the ring) and beg (by getting on one knee) for his mates affection.

I absolutely despise the ritual on all fronts.
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Ditto. Not only that, it signifies ownership of the woman.

I have thus far failed to figure out the necessity of said ring if not for the above reason.
 
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rivrrat said:
Ditto. Not only that, it signifies ownership of the woman.

I have thus far failed to figure out the necessity of said ring if not for the above reason.
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I have no problems with exchanging rings between the couple. But even the term "husband" implies that we are animals in need of an owner.
 
Tucker Case said:
The whole engagement ring ritual is sexist as all hell. It implies that women are materialistic AND it forces a man to symbolically bribe (with the ring) and beg (by getting on one knee) for his mates affection.

I absolutely despise the ritual on all fronts.
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I don't believe you. All men beg for their *****.:roll:
 
Any time you make something softer, you also make it weaker. Wimen know if they weaken Men, they will be easier to control. :shock:
 
rivrrat said:
Ditto. Not only that, it signifies ownership of the woman.
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Agreed.


Ironically, in order to show my love and affection to my wife, I overlooked my own distaste for the ritual (which she was and is well aware of) and still engaged in it (no pun intended) when I asked her to marry me.

What was cool about it, and one of the reasons I truly love my wife, is that she "reciprocated" the act a few weeks later asking me to marry her and her "bribe" was a hi-def big screen TV (something she knew I wouldn't buy for myself but wanted) which she had delivered while I was at work. I walked in and she was down on one knee (begging) with the remote in her hand (bribing).

To her, my will to conform to the conventions I despise was a sign of my love for her, and for me, her will to break from convention and do something somewhat novel was a sign of her love for me.
 
Skateguy said:
Any time you make something softer, you also make it weaker. Wimen know if they weaken Men, they will be easier to control. :shock:
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Men have always been pretty easy to control as it is, dude. Weakening them only removes the challenge.
 
Tucker Case said:
Agreed.


Ironically, in order to show my love and affection to my wife, I overlooked my own distaste for the ritual (which she was and is well aware of) and still engaged in it (no pun intended) when I asked her to marry me.

What was cool about it, and one of the reasons I truly love my wife, is that she "reciprocated" the act a few weeks later asking me to marry her and her "bribe" was a hi-def big screen TV (something she knew I wouldn't buy for myself but wanted) which she had delivered while I was at work. I walked in and she was down on one knee (begging) with the remote in her hand (bribing).

To her, my will to conform to the conventions I despise was a sign of my love for her, and for me, her will to break from convention and do something somewhat novel was a sign of her love for me.
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Awww......seriously, way romantic.
 
Tucker Case said:
Agreed.


Ironically, in order to show my love and affection to my wife, I overlooked my own distaste for the ritual (which she was and is well aware of) and still engaged in it (no pun intended) when I asked her to marry me.

What was cool about it, and one of the reasons I truly love my wife, is that she "reciprocated" the act a few weeks later asking me to marry her and her "bribe" was a hi-def big screen TV (something she knew I wouldn't buy for myself but wanted) which she had delivered while I was at work. I walked in and she was down on one knee (begging) with the remote in her hand (bribing).

To her, my will to conform to the conventions I despise was a sign of my love for her, and for me, her will to break from convention and do something somewhat novel was a sign of her love for me.
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Again no bribe, she paid for the rings. I just picked it out. We were engaged before we got rings. I reciprocated by paying for the wedding. I mean my wife is pretty awesome and I feel she deserved it.

I mean how many men can say their wife bought them a Mustang Cobra for Valatines day.

It's not about the ring or ceremony. It is about the mutual love and respect in the symbolism.

PS I don't think it symbolizes ownership. I think that is where it may have come from in the past. Today in the western world it is simply a sign of commitment.
 
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Feminism? Hah! This one is just another socialist bowel movement.

Where were all these feminists when Bill Clinton was busy violating Monica Lewinsky?
 
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When I got married in key west in 1969 we had our reception at Sloppy Joes before the wedding ceremony at city hall. I did not even have a ring but Susie Creamcheese gave us her ring to use during the ceremony.

Hell, I had never been married before and I didn't know you needed a ring. We are still happily married.
 
bicycleman said:
Feminism? Hah! This one is just another socialist bowel movement.

Where were all these feminists when Bill Clinton was busy violating Monica Lewinsky?
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I think monica enjoyed it as much as the dudes who impeached him.
 
rivrrat said:
Ditto. Not only that, it signifies ownership of the woman.

I have thus far failed to figure out the necessity of said ring if not for the above reason.
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The ritual of the diamond ring was invented by the De Beers company and their mass marketing. It started at the time when people were much more conformist than they are now, and so the idea that you weren't a man unless you were saving up three pay checks for a ring was ingrained in a generation.

I agree, it's a dumb ritual. If I asked my partner if he wanted to get married and he was upset that I didn't do it with an expensive ring, I would re-consider being with him.
 
Blackdog said:
Again no bribe, she paid for the rings. I just picked it out. We were engaged before we got rings. I reciprocated by paying for the wedding. I mean my wife is pretty awesome and I feel she deserved it.

I mean how many men can say their wife bought them a Mustang Cobra for Valatines day.

It's not about the ring or ceremony. It is about the mutual love and respect in the symbolism.

PS I don't think it symbolizes ownership. I think that is where it may have come from in the past. Today in the western world it is simply a sign of commitment.
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You guys seem to have bucked the conventions a bit and what you both did is definitely not the traditional ritual of engagement, so it isn't really what I was talking about with the symbolic bribe/begging thing.
 
Camlon said:
I'm having a completly different attitude to feminism, because for me feminism mens something else than it does in the US.

Feminism in my homecountry (Norway) was good in the begining, but after a while it went from removing discrimination to improsing governmental discrimination (Affirmative action) against men to empower women. Even though boys does worse at school and only 40% of the students are men, there is still a lot of affirmative action to make it easier for girls to attend college, while pretty much none the other way.

Also, I disliked the way they talk about wages. In Norway, people will regually talk about wages. "If women looked like men, then they would get 15% higher wages", which is completly bull**** because the reason women earn less is because they take low wage jobs, they work less, get "sick" more often and they take less risks. If this was true, why don't we see more firms only employing women, because they are cheaper but produce the same value. To even question if the wage gap is due to discrimination or not, is politically incorrect and very few ever question what was programmed into them in school. (school books in Norway are not neutral like in the US, they are quited biased to the left and state their opinions as facts) Because of this wage gap, feminists demand that the government should make sure (communist style) that men don't get a raise, while women does.

If you had to deal with this for 20 years of your life, then you would also dislike feminists.
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It's more or less the same here, although, there aren't as many giveaways as there are in Norway.
 
Tucker Case said:
You guys seem to have bucked the conventions a bit and what you both did is definitely not the traditional ritual of engagement, so it isn't really what I was talking about with the symbolic bribe/begging thing.
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Yea that's true. We even got married in our house, lol. It was amazing.

Been together a long time. Looking forward to many more years.
 
bicycleman said:
Feminism? Hah! This one is just another socialist bowel movement.

Where were all these feminists when Bill Clinton was busy violating Monica Lewinsky?
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What violation happened?
She wanted dick
He wanted *****
Whether the dick and ***** were had is unbeknown to us - but a good time was, we know that at the least.

Why do you assume that a good time between two people is against feminism? Feminism, if anything, would encourage women to be more open to 'seeing' more men rather than tying their selves into a marriage.

So - in your beef, here, through your eyes - Lewinsky embodies feminism by putting her wants and desires ahead of someone else's issues (meaning - the Clinton's marriage) and Hillery stands against feminism by staying with a man who couldn't be faithful and failed to adhere to the promise he made when they wed. . . and by continuing to do so eventhough they have a fractured and thin-veiled marriage even now.

Now - cheating and being scandalous and unfaithful has been a human+marriage issue since the dawn of time - before the notion of feminism even became a thing to dream of. So why you're having issues with Monica giving a little head now and then is beyond me.
 
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Tucker Case said:
Agreed.


Ironically, in order to show my love and affection to my wife, I overlooked my own distaste for the ritual (which she was and is well aware of) and still engaged in it (no pun intended) when I asked her to marry me.

What was cool about it, and one of the reasons I truly love my wife, is that she "reciprocated" the act a few weeks later asking me to marry her and her "bribe" was a hi-def big screen TV (something she knew I wouldn't buy for myself but wanted) which she had delivered while I was at work. I walked in and she was down on one knee (begging) with the remote in her hand (bribing).

To her, my will to conform to the conventions I despise was a sign of my love for her, and for me, her will to break from convention and do something somewhat novel was a sign of her love for me.
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That is pretty cool. Sounds like a match made in heaven.
 
Tucker Case said:
Agreed.


Ironically, in order to show my love and affection to my wife, I overlooked my own distaste for the ritual (which she was and is well aware of) and still engaged in it (no pun intended) when I asked her to marry me.

What was cool about it, and one of the reasons I truly love my wife, is that she "reciprocated" the act a few weeks later asking me to marry her and her "bribe" was a hi-def big screen TV (something she knew I wouldn't buy for myself but wanted) which she had delivered while I was at work. I walked in and she was down on one knee (begging) with the remote in her hand (bribing).

To her, my will to conform to the conventions I despise was a sign of my love for her, and for me, her will to break from convention and do something somewhat novel was a sign of her love for me.
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I couldn't wear my wedding ring for a while (the finish wore off, leaving me exposed to the nickel-infused alloy, which I'm allergic to) - it was a while before my husband could buy me a new ring.

So, for a while I had no ring on (this was before I put on some weight, btw, I guess I wasn't too much of an ugly duckling) and guys would hit on me all the time thinking I was single. It was annoying as hell most of the time and other times it was downright creepy.

So I bought a cheapo plastic ring and wore it until he bought me another one - better than nothing. I will never go without my wedding ring, ever - I don't feel like batting horny dicks off like they're moths to a flame.

For some people it's a necessity to show marital status.
 
I think mood rings would actually be ideal. Just think: You'd know, at a glance, if you should be in another room and avoiding them entirely.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
I think mood rings would actually be ideal. Just think: You'd know, at a glance, if you should be in another room and avoiding them entirely.
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I can tell I need to run without seeing any mood rings. All I need to do is think back to whether or not I had actually said anything recently. If yes, I must take flight. :lol:
 
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