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Mosque near WTC moves forward

Regarding the "Cordoba House" mosque being built 2 blocks from ground zero in NYC...


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Because the crusades happened hundreds of years ago. And only a few examples of Christains killing for thier god are relevant today. 99% of the murdering in the name of god these days is being done by muslims waging holy war around the globe. Tell me where Im wrong, please.
You're being selective.

Money and greed has killed more people than probably all religions of the earth put together, yet I dont see you decrying the idea of Capitalism. You are intellectually lazy with no will to do anything but tear down anything you wont understand or bully around.

By the way, this is also out of the Qur’an

109:1 Say: O disbelievers!
109:2 I worship not that which ye worship;
109:3 Nor worship ye that which I worship.
109:4 And I shall not worship that which ye worship.
109:5 Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
109:6 Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion.

Q.E.****ing.D
 
You're being selective.

Money and greed has killed more people than probably all religions of the earth put together, yet I dont see you decrying the idea of Capitalism. You are intellectually lazy with no will to do anything but tear down anything you wont understand or bully around.

It could be that he merely addresses the issue at hand and doesn't pretend to not see it for sake of appearing better than others. You are attempting to equate economic practicalism and religious apocalypticalism. Do you honestly fear a man and his checkbook over a man who hears God's veangeful voice in his head? One can be brought to terms with and dealt with. One cannot without convincing him that his ideals of God are all wrong. Which one is more dangerous?

By the way, this is also out of the Qur’an


The common term isn't what does the Bible state . The common term is "what would Jesus do?"

The Qur'an prescribes much of the same violence and peace that the Bible does. But how confused do Muslims get when someone states "what would Muhammad do?"

Christianity's advantage is that it's roots go back further than Peter. It goes back to a liberal pacifist. Christianity also went through a violent reformation that removed power from Rome and gave it to the individual. Islam's root is not one of pacifism and it has never gone through a reformation. Mecca continues to hold controlling authority, which means power continues to come from above (and whatever jack-ass decides is God's will.)
 
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It could be that he merely addresses the issue at hand and doesn't pretend to not see it for sake of appearing better than others. You are attempting to equate economic practicalism and religious apocalypticalism.
Because only one can really kill you.

Do you honestly fear a man and his checkbook over a man who hears God's veangeful voice in his head?
Yeah, I do. There are worse things than death and the man with the checkbook can do more of them.

The common term isn't what does the Bible state . The common term is "what would Jesus do?"

The Qur'an prescribes much of the same violence and peace that the Bible does. But how confused do Muslims get when someone states "what would Muhammad do?"
I dont give a **** what Jesus or Muhammed would do, that isnt the issue. The issue is you are mentally stuck on an idea and nothing anyone says or does will dislodge it
 
The issue is you are mentally stuck on an idea and nothing anyone says or does will dislodge it

From where I sit, I'd say it is those who refuse to see what is plain to be seen who are stuck on an idea. Apologia may earn one props from certain quarters, but is the acknowledgement of those matters others find too uncomfortable to address that displays that one's mind is not stuck.
 
I'd hate American too
Then get the **** out.

....the current state of our penal system.
I see nothing wrong with its current state. So far nobody has come back with any stats in another thread where I requested they look at the data regarding Mitigating/Aggravating Factors and prior convictions when they use statistics that blacks typically get sentenced to longer punishment than whites. Look that up and get back to me.

Every time I read a thread about how they ought to just buck up and try harder and stop idolizing criminals and being whiners and crybabies and lazy crackheads, and then maybe they'd have it as good as white people.
Maybe more blacks should stop idolizing criminals.....

If I were black, I'd hate whites. I hate them anyway, half the time, on behalf of blacks. It embarrasses me to be white a lot of the time.
Then kill yourself. kthnx

Yet almost no blacks hate whites or wish them ill.
Absolute ****ing bull****. Prove this one.


For all my silliness and flaws, I'm still a better and more tolerant person than you.
No. Your not. When are you moving to Kenya again?
 
You can find plenty in the Bible that is violent and advocates for the killing of all kinds of people, maybe we should limit where they build churches.

Not in the New Testament, my friend.


Wiseone you forgot.

Christians pick and choose what they want to keep from the Old Testament, while hiding behind the "New Testament" for the things they don't like out of the Old Testament.....:roll:
 
Christians pick and choose what they want to keep from the Old Testament, while hiding behind the "New Testament" for the things they don't like out of the Old Testament.....:roll:

Sounds like it's d@mned if you do, d@mned if you don't. If a person chooses to go with everything everything, they are a fundie. If they show some actual discernment, they are accused of picking and choosing.
 
I haven't said otherwise, Blackdog. All I said was a mosque in that spot wasn't such a great idea.

This has nothing to do with the comment I made that you quoted here.

Also, that comparing Christian and Islamic terrorism as if there were some equivalency is like comparing firecrackers and nukes.

It does not matter. The Majority of Muslims are not terrorists and judging them by the minority is wrong. It is not better than when people judge Christians by things like the priest molestation scandal.
 
Wiseone you forgot.

Christians pick and choose what they want to keep from the Old Testament, while hiding behind the "New Testament" for the things they don't like out of the Old Testament.....:roll:

I don't know if you are being sarcastic or not. I will say that is absolutely not true.

The laws laid down in the OT were for God's chosen the Israelites. The laws in the NT are for all who came after Jesus died on the cross including gentiles.

Huge difference.
 
I don't know if you are being sarcastic or not. I will say that is absolutely not true.

The laws laid down in the OT were for God's chosen the Israelites. The laws in the NT are for all who came after Jesus died on the cross including gentiles.

Huge difference.


So then, why are Christians so hung up on the 10 Commandments if the 10 Commandments are not for them?

Hell, Christians focus more on the 10 Commandments than the Jews do.

Not to mention Jews don't seem to focus too much on homosexuality, also from the Old Testament
 
So then, why are Christians so hung up on the 10Commandments if the 10 Commandments are not for them?

Jesus pointed out which of the commandments were for us.

Matthew 19:16-19, "If you want to enter life, obey the commandments. You shall not murder, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, Honor your father and your mother, and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself"'.

Can't make it any simpler.

Hell, Christians focus more on the 10 Commandments than the Jews do.

I guess you hang out at allot of Synagogues? :roll:

Not to mention Jews don't seem to focus too much on homosexuality, also from the Old Testament

When was the last time you met a gay Jew?

If you are not a Christian, please don't insult me by telling me about my own religion when you have no clue.

PS forgot to mention. I know the OT or Torah does not mention lesbianism as a sin. I am not certain how Rabbi's handle that one.
 
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And yet, there is no getting around the fact that the 9/11 hijackers were Muslims motivated by Jihad. I get a little baffled sometimes by people who don't seem to want to recognize that little fact, or the undeniable truth that Islam seems to produce an aweful lot of terrorists. How many of the most recent 100 suicide bombers were Muslim? Is the number 99 or 100? Has any other religion produced 100 suicide bombers in the past decade... or even 10?

I don't care. These Muslims along with the vast majority of Muslims have nothing to do with Jihad. Come one Goshin. I expect better arguments from you.

Ever lost a loved one to murder? It is very hard not to hate the perpetrators and anyone associated with them. I think this is at least arguably, a bit insensitive to the families of the 9/11 victims.

That's like saying that because a Hispanic killed your loved one, you can't deal with Hispanics.

Doesn't anyone else find it just a smidge odd, that WE are supposed to be uber-sensitive to the needs, wants, feelings and sensibilities of EVERYONE else, yet nobody seems to give a good flying **** if something might offend US?

It's not about sensitivity. They've got the money and the permits. It's up to them.
 
EffoTib asked me to post Surah 5 Verse 51 in context so he could point out that its meaning changed when posted in context. So here it is. Im not going to post all 120 verses of surah 5 just the ones leading up to and after 51. He will find that it means exactly what it says. In Surah 5 thier is much distrust and hatred directed towards Jews. No wonder Muslims today hate Jews so much.

Quran Surah 5 verse 51

Believers, take not Jews and Christians for your friends. They are but friends and protectors to each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.

Surah 5 is called Al-Maeda it means "the table and the table spread"

there are 120 verses in Surah 5 of the Quran. Surah 5 sets out rules believers must adhere to.

They include rules on food, symbolism, hygene, marriage, and prayer. Begining with verse 12 deals with the people of the book, Jews and Christians. The verses in the 30's deal with punishment for disbelievers.
Verse 38 deals with punishment for thievery. Cutting off both hands is a reward of thier own deeds and an exemplary punishment from Allah. Allah is Mighty, Wise.
Verse 39, allahs mercy for those who repent.
Verse 40 Do you not know that Allah-- His is the kingdom of the heavens and the earth; He chastises whom He pleases; and forgives whom He pleases and Allah has power over all things.
Verse 41 O Messenger! let not those grieve you who strive together in hastening to unbelief from among those who say with their mouths: We believe, and their hearts do not believe, and from among those who are Jews; they are listeners for the sake of a lie, listeners for another people who have not come to you; they alter the words from their places, saying: If you are given this, take it, and if you are not given this, be cautious; and as for him whose temptation Allah desires, you cannot control anything for him with Allah. Those are they for whom Allah does not desire that He should purify their hearts; they shall have disgrace in this world, and they shall have a grievous chastisement in the hereafter.
Verse 42 listeners of a lie, devourers of what is forbidden; therefore if they come to you, judge between them or turn aside from them, and if you turn aside from them, they shall not harm you in any way; and if you judge, judge between them with equity; surely Allah loves those who judge equitably.
Verse 43 And how do they make you a judge and they have the Taurat wherein is Allah's judgment? Yet they turn back after that, and these are not the believers.
 
Jesus pointed out which of the commandments were for us.

Matthew 19:16-19, "If you want to enter life, obey the commandments. You shall not murder, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, Honor your father and your mother, and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself"'.

Can't make it any simpler.
Yeshu also said this...

Matthew 5:17-19
Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfil them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Quite clearly, Yeshu is stipulating that his theology is dependent upon and irrevocably intertwined with Torah. Not partially, but in-toto. In short, one cannot discard Jewish theology and remain faithful to the Good Word.
 
continued....
Verse 44Surely We revealed the Taurat in which was guidance and light; with it the prophets who submitted themselves (to Allah) judged (matters) for those who were Jews, and the masters of Divine knowledge and the doctors, because they were required to guard (part) of the Book of Allah, and they were witnesses thereof; therefore fear not the people and fear Me, and do not take a small price for My communications; and whoever did not judge by what Allah revealed, those are they that are the unbelievers.
Verse 45And We prescribed to them in it that life is for life, and eye for eye, and nose for nose, and ear for ear, and tooth for tooth, and (that there is) reprisal in wounds; but he who foregoes it, it shall be an expiation for him; and whoever did not judge by what Allah revealed, those are they that are the unjust.
Verse 46And We sent after them in their footsteps Jesus, son of Mary, verifying what was before him of the Taurat and We gave him the Injeel in which was guidance and light, and verifying what was before it of Taurat and a guidance and an admonition for those who guard against evil.
Verse 47 And the followers of the Injeel (People of the Gospel) should have judged by what Allah revealed in it; and whoever did not judge by what Allah revealed, those are they that are the transgressors.
Verse 48 And We have revealed to you the Book with the truth, verifying what is before it of the Book and a guardian over it, therefore judge between them by what Allah has revealed, and do not follow their low desires (to turn away) from the truth that has come to you; for every one of you did We appoint a law and a way, and if Allah had pleased He would have made you (all) a single people, but that He might try you in what He gave you, therefore strive with one another to hasten to virtuous deeds; to Allah is your return, of all (of you), so He will let you know that in which you differed.
 
I explained this way too many times in 50 or so Tea Party threads. You cannot judge large groups by the actions of a relative few. This has been taught to all of us as children. There is no excuse to not know it now.

Sgtrock, I don't give a ****. Flip through the OT. There are plenty of quotes that can call for some pretty terrible things if one takes them all literally and forgets the whole message of the book. The same exact thing applies to Islam. SOME Muslims do just that with the Quran. They cherry pick a few quotes and forget the main message of the Quran, don't be a dick. Some Christians do the exact same thing. Of course all you hear about are the crazy ones. They're the one's blowing themselves up!! The rest are just trying to carry out their lives like you and me. That's not news. That's why you don't see it. So go ahead Sgt. Flip through the OT. Look at every little rule and law they tell you, and then tell me that the Quran is so much worse.
 
Yeshu also said this...

Matthew 5:17-19
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfil them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

Quite clearly, Yeshu is stipulating that his theology is dependent upon and irrevocably intertwined with Torah. Not partially, but in-toto. In short, one cannot discard Jewish theology and remain faithful to the Good Word.

"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."

Jesus also said he came not to abolish the Law or the Prophets, that is, the Holy Scriptures, but to "fulfill them". Jesus did not tell Christians to "fulfill" these Scriptures down to the smallest letter. He said he came to fulfill the Holy Scriptures.

"What did he mean by this? The Greek word for "fulfill" is plerosai. According to Greek scholars, the nuance and meaning of this word is difficult to express in English, and several possibilities have been offered. These are summarized by four options:

1. Jesus came to accomplish or obey the Holy Scriptures,

2. to bring out the full meaning of the Holy Scriptures,

3. to bring those Scriptures to their intended completion,

4. to emphasize that the Scriptures point to him as Messiah and are fulfilled in his salvation work.

After reviewing several ways of looking at the word "fulfill," the Expositor’s Commentary on Matthew concluded by saying: "The best interpretation of these difficult verses says that Jesus fulfills the Law and the Prophets in that they point to him, and he is their fulfillment. The antithesis is not between ‘abolish’ and ‘keep’ but between ‘abolish’ and ‘fulfill’"


A new covenant was made between God, and all people upon the death of Jesus. The prophecy was fulfilled in Jesus.

I am not debating Torah vs the NT here. Just explaining the Christian perspective.

"In short, Jesus was creating a spiritual law, which we may call the "law of Christ" (John 13:33-35) — and this becomes the norm for Christian living, not the old covenant law. This is demonstrated by the fact that one cannot find in the teaching in Matthew 5-6 any discussion of ceremonial laws such as the Sabbath and annual festival "holy time" regulations — a hallmark of Jewish religious observance based on old covenant commands."
 
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continued......
Surah 5 Verse 49And that you should judge between them by what Allah has revealed, and do not follow their low desires, and be cautious of them, lest they seduce you from part of what Allah has revealed to you; but if they turn back, then know that Allah desires to afflict them on account of some of their faults; and most surely many of the people are transgressors.
Verse 50 Is it then the judgment of ignorance that they desire? And who is better than Allah to judge for a people who are sure?

Verse 51 Believers, take not Jews and Christians for your friends. They are but friends and protectors to each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.

Verse 52But you will see those in whose hearts is a disease hastening towards them, saying: We fear lest a calamity should befall us; but it may be that Allah will bring the victory or a punish ment from Himself, so that they shall be regretting on account of what they hid in their souls
Verse 53 And those who believe will say: Are these they who swore by Allah with the most forcible of their oaths that they were most surely with you? Their deeds shall go for nothing, so they shall become losers.
Verse 54O you who believe! whoever from among you turns back from his religion, then Allah will bring a people, He shall love them and they shall love Him, lowly before the believers, mighty against the unbelievers, they shall strive hard in Allah's way and shall not fear the censure of any censurer; this is Allah's Face, He gives it to whom He pleases, and Allah is Ample-giving, Knowing.
Verse 55 Your guardian can be only Allah; and His messenger and those who believe, who establish worship and pay to charity, and bow down in prayer.

There are 65 more verses in Surah 5 of the Quran. Most of it goes on to heap criticism upon the people of the book Jews and Christians. Accusing them of blasphemy and damning them to hells eternal fire and such.

Anyway the purpose of this leasson was to point out that Surah 5 Verse 51 means what it says in context. I posted two other verses which dealt with waging holy war and killing infidels. Im not going to post them again in context but I assure you they also mean what they say. No parsing of words. I recommend you, EffoTib obtain a copy of the Quran and read it a few times. You might just be enlightened, you might even come to the same conclusion as I have that Islam is Evil.

Thankyou for comming, Class dismissed.
 
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I dont give a **** what Jesus or Muhammed would do, that isnt the issue. The issue is you are mentally stuck on an idea and nothing anyone says or does will dislodge it

It would appear that you are confused about the issue. Perhaps it's because you pretend that there is none as you focus on simpler things like capitalism, which has been thought about to exhaustion over the past 200 hundred years. Perhaps thinking about something more tangible and less safe would help to ground you.
 
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I explained this way too many times in 50 or so Tea Party threads. You cannot judge large groups by the actions of a relative few. This has been taught to all of us as children. There is no excuse to not know it now.

Sgtrock, I don't give a ****. Flip through the OT. There are plenty of quotes that can call for some pretty terrible things if one takes them all literally and forgets the whole message of the book. The same exact thing applies to Islam. SOME Muslims do just that with the Quran. They cherry pick a few quotes and forget the main message of the Quran, don't be a dick. Some Christians do the exact same thing. Of course all you hear about are the crazy ones. They're the one's blowing themselves up!! The rest are just trying to carry out their lives like you and me. That's not news. That's why you don't see it. So go ahead Sgt. Flip through the OT. Look at every little rule and law they tell you, and then tell me that the Quran is so much worse.

I am not judging muslims as a group or the many who choose to take the quran literally. I am judging Islam as a religion, political Islam, cultural Islam, and societal Islam.
 
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I'm looking back over this with amazement, at how intense the opposition is to this simple statement: "I don't think building a mosque next door to Ground Zero is in good taste." Nothing said about using the force of law to deny them, just that I don't think its a good idea.

Part of what's so amazing about it is that I don't really care all that much, build the darn thing if it's so important to you; I'll never see it anyway.
 
I'm looking back over this with amazement, at how intense the opposition is to this simple statement: "I don't think building a mosque next door to Ground Zero is in good taste." Nothing said about using the force of law to deny them, just that I don't think its a good idea.

Part of what's so amazing about it is that I don't really care all that much, build the darn thing if it's so important to you; I'll never see it anyway.

I agree, I also do not like the idea of building a mosque near ground zero. But then I don't think a mosque should be built anywhere. This is my opinion, The constitution protects the right to religious freedom even if its an evil religion like Islam.
 
Jesus also said he came not to abolish the Law or the Prophets, that is, the Holy Scriptures, but to "fulfill them". Jesus did not tell Christians to "fulfill" these Scriptures down to the smallest letter. He said he came to fulfill the Holy Scriptures.
Yeshu is Jewish and supposedly a descendant of the House of David. From a Jewish perspective Yeshu is a rabbi (teacher), perhaps from the Essene branch of first century Judaism.

In Matthew he is proclaiming to be part and parcel (and an extension) of Jewish theology. It is an exercise in linear logic... derivative y exists because of x.
 
I am not judging muslims as a group or the many who choose to take the quran literally. I am judging Islam as a religion, political Islam, cultural Islam, and societal Islam.

If you are judging a religion you are judging the character of its followers. And any kind of generalization is ridiculous and stupid. Just how many Muslims do you know personally? How can you call an entire religion evil when the majority of those who practice it, and therefore have the most right to define what it is, are peaceful individuals.

Seriously you might as well be a racist, its the same principle. The only difference one could argue is that one has a choice which religion they follow but no choice in their race. Therefore one can be blamed for their religion but not their race. However thats also mistake as it completely ignored one's upbringing and the exposure to different things they get as a child. Someone raised as muslim or a christian will have a difficult time simply "choosing" to change their religion because someone people think its evil, or for a positive reason such as if they want to marry someone from another religion.
 
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