• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Mosque near WTC moves forward

Regarding the "Cordoba House" mosque being built 2 blocks from ground zero in NYC...


  • Total voters
    58
  • Poll closed .
Thats where you are wrong my Canadian friend. The terrorist that attacked the United States are good muslims. They are serving Allah by fighting holy war or jihad against the infidels as the Quran commands they do. They are the good muslims. They have givin thier lives for Allahs cause. Those who do not wage jihad are not muslims at all.

This is a gross generalization that flies in the face of Muslims that are not about hurting anyone or making "jihad."

As I said; it's like holding Christians responsible for the Phelps family or those that bomb and kill at abortion clinics.

Just bigotry on a grand scale.
 
And you don't think that a little consideration for them is perhaps a good thing?

Of course it is. However, consideration doesn't mean condoning the scapegoating of innocents. I accept that people will act a certain way out of grief, that doesn't make it right though.

Apples and oranges.

No, you simply don't like your own standard being applied to you. If Dave Chapelle can be held accountable for OBL's actions, why can't you for father-Mctouchy?

I don't blame the BDs, just as I don't blame all Muslims for 9/11. The fact remains that OKC was done by McVeigh as retaliation for Waco, "in their name" as it were, and putting a BD church next to the OKC site would be in poor taste and lacking in consideration for the families of the OKC victims... just as putting a mosque next to Ground Zero is, since 9/11 was done in the name of Islamic jihad.

That fine. I take you also consider it poor taste to put churches near schools after the child abuse? Or to have guns next to the house of family who lost someone from a firearm related homicide? Or a peanut stand because someone lost their friend to an allergic reaction? Or a McDonalds where starvation is common? There are an endless number of circumstantial tragedies.
 
This is a gross generalization that flies in the face of Muslims that are not about hurting anyone or making "jihad."

As I said; it's like holding Christians responsible for the Phelps family or those that bomb and kill at abortion clinics.

Just bigotry on a grand scale.

Sorry, you are wrong. What does Islam mean. Islam means submission. Total submission. That means you can't be a part time muslim and still be a muslim. Total submission means serving Allah . Part of serving Allah is fighting infidels in holy war or jihad. It is not an option according to the Quran.
 
Sorry, you are wrong. What does Islam mean. Islam means submission. Total submission. That means you can't be a part time muslim and still be a muslim. Total submission means serving Allah . Part of serving Allah is fighting infidels in holy war or jihad. It is not an option according to the Quran.

Like I said, bigotry and little else. :doh

So lets just ban Islam in the US outright. Then we can throw the Constitution in the garbage while we are at it.
 
Last edited:
I think it's been almost 9 freaking years, and if they aren't over their grief enough to be able to tolerate the sight of a mosque, they've got problems that "a little consideration" isn't going to be able to fix.

This shouldn't be about "a little consideration." This should be about life moving on and very different groups of people trying to figure out how to better co-exist.

Would you fell the same if a pro-life church that was adamantly pro-life wanted to be built next to an abortion clinic or across the street from it , maybe even have a statue of Scott Reoder? Sure almost all pro-lifers/anti-abortionist are opposed to legalized abortion(except maybe legalized a few extreme cases), while most Muslims on the other hand probably do not give a rats ass about the USA.
 
Like I said, bigotry and little else. :doh

So lets just ban Islam in the US outright. Then we can throw the Constitution in the garbage while we are at it.

The long term goal of jihadist is to establish a worldwide caliphate. Groups like CAIR (The Council on American-Islamic Relations) use our constitution against us when ever possible. They are part of the jihad against the west.

We cannot ban Islam and they know it. We as infidels one day, probably not in our life time will submit to Allah, be subjugated (enslaved) or die. I don't know about you but I will die fighting before I submit to satan, oh I mean Allah.
 
bigotry? Please elaborate.

"The Arabic term 'islam means "submission" and itself comes from the term 'aslama, which means "to surrender, resign oneself." In Islam, the fundamental duty of each Muslim is to submit to Allah (Arabic for "the God") and whatever Allah wants of them. A person who follows Islam is called a Muslim, and this means "one who surrenders to God." It is thus clear that the concept of submission to the will, desires, and commands and God is inextricably linked to Islam as a religion — it's an inherent part of the name of the religion, of the religion's followers, and of the basic tenets of Islam." - What is Islam? In Islam, Peace is Based on Submission & Surrender to God - But Peace and Justice Cannot Exist on the Basis of Submission & Surrender

The perverted meaning you use is not only wrong, but is as bad as the Muslim extremists.

Like I said; why don't we just ban it and throw the Constitution away. It's obvious it means little.

PS Surrendering our lives to God is exactly the same thing Christians do. We submit to his will.
 
Last edited:
The long term goal of jihadist is to establish a worldwide caliphate. Groups like CAIR (The Council on American-Islamic Relations) use our constitution against us when ever possible. They are part of the jihad against the west.

We cannot ban Islam and they know it. We as infidels one day, probably not in our life time will submit to Allah, be subjugated (enslaved) or die. I don't know about you but I will die fighting before I submit to satan, oh I mean Allah.

Well than live in fear my friend. I choose to live free and enjoy the fruits of what the founders intended. Freedom to worship openly the God or gods of my choosing.
 
Well than live in fear my friend. I choose to live free and enjoy the fruits of what the founders intended. Freedom to worship openly the God or gods of my choosing.

Even if the god of your choosing does not allow others gods? Even if the god of your choosing demands that you kill those who do not submit to him?

I do not live in fear
Yes, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for you are with me; your rod and your staff they comfort me.

I am free and I will do everthing I can to make sure my family and there decendents remain free in a country where freedom reigns.
 
Last edited:
Co-exist, such a peaceful word. To bad we don't all live in this utopia where everything is peaceful and people don't want to kill us because we are kafirs (non-believers).

Um, I don't know about you, but I live in America, which is a fascinating little nation where lots of different people live together peacefully and have no interest in slaughtering one another. As for those who do insist on violating the natural rights of others, well, that's what we have peace officers and the rule of law and a military for. :lol:

Anyway sorry to interupt your imaginary world. Stick your head back in the flowers.

I'd love to, but I just can't bring myself to do it. I keep feeling the urge to help you pull yours out of your ass.
 
I would be happy if so called moderate muslims of the world would stand up to the jihadist. The jihadist who serve Allah (satan). The jihadist who actually submit to Allah and do what muslims are supposed to do according to the Quran.

Right, and what about the violent things the Bible commands us to do?

Are Christians who refuse to adhere to those tenets then not-Christians?
 
Would you fell the same if a pro-life church that was adamantly pro-life wanted to be built next to an abortion clinic or across the street from it , maybe even have a statue of Scott Reoder? Sure almost all pro-lifers/anti-abortionist are opposed to legalized abortion(except maybe legalized a few extreme cases), while most Muslims on the other hand probably do not give a rats ass about the USA.

Your comparison is invalid, unless you are suggesting that the potential mosque in question is being planned by, or is being built to honor, militants.
 
Um, I don't know about you, but I live in America, which is a fascinating little nation where lots of different people live together peacefully and have no interest in slaughtering one another. As for those who do insist on violating the natural rights of others, well, that's what we have peace officers and the rule of law and a military for. :lol:



I'd love to, but I just can't bring myself to do it. I keep feeling the urge to help you pull yours out of your ass.

Like I said you live in an imaginary world where lots of different people live together peacefully. Right, get back with me when you wake up from this dream.
 
Even if the god of your choosing does not allow others gods?

"Thou shalt have no other gods before me." - Exodus 20:3 1

Even if the god of your choosing demands that you kill those who do not submit to him?

"They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman." - 2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB

I am free and I will do everthing I can to make sure my family and there decendents remain free in a country where freedom reigns.

Freedom will no longer reign if people who talk like you have anything to say about it.
 
Right, and what about the violent things the Bible commands us to do?

Are Christians who refuse to adhere to those tenets then not-Christians?

In the 16th century Christianity went through a reformation. Something that ISlam has yet to do. Maybe someday Islam will reform (not likely) and we can live in this peaceful utopia you live in (in your mind). until then we are at war to protect freedom, liberty, and our way of life.
 
This is a gross generalization that flies in the face of Muslims that are not about hurting anyone or making "jihad."

Exactly.
Anyway, as it was explained to me, "jihad" has multiple meanings and does not- in the moderate Islamic faith- refer to waging war against non-Muslims. It refers to waging an internal war against one's own baser instincts, and becoming a better, more righteous person. Much as Christians are instructed to do.

Sorry, you are wrong. What does Islam mean. Islam means submission. Total submission. That means you can't be a part time muslim and still be a muslim. Total submission means serving Allah . Part of serving Allah is fighting infidels in holy war or jihad. It is not an option according to the Quran.

And what about all this lamb and shepherd nonsense?
Are Christians not instructed to be totally submissive before their God?
Can you be a "part time Christian"? The Christian God demands total submission. Total submission means serving Him.
Part of serving God is to combat evil and sin, both within and without. This is jihad. That is what it means.
It is not an option according to the Bible.

I have known many middle-easterners of Islamic faith.
I worked for one for years, in a small restaurant. Another was my regular cab driver when I was dancing. They became my friends over the years. They were gentle, peaceful men, hard-working and family oriented, with no violence or meanness in them.
I talked to these guys a lot. They were kind and respectful men, intelligent and tolerant of our differences.
After 9-11, rocks were thrown through the windows of Salid's restaurant where I used to work.
Shortly after that, he had a stroke and became partially paralyzed. He was only in his 40s. It was a combination of the stress of working 15 hour days for years to build up his business from scratch, combined with the racism and hatred that he and his family were subjected to after the World Trade Center tragedy.

I cared about both of these men; they were better people than most Westerners I have known, and neither ever once suggested that I or any other non-Islamic should follow the tenets of Islam.
 
Last edited:
In the 16th century Christianity went through a reformation.

It did not result in any kind of a revision to the Bible itself, which still contains many violent teachings. Christianity also has its violent extremists to this day, but like with Islam those extremists are in the extreme minority.

Something that ISlam has yet to do.

Millions upon millions of peaceful Muslims would beg to differ.

Maybe someday Islam will reform (not likely) and we can live in this peaceful utopia you live in (in your mind). until then we are at war to protect freedom, liberty, and our way of life.

We're not at war with the millions of peaceful Muslims. We're at war with a few hundred thousand radicals.

The funny thing is, we made Al Qaeda the monster it is today.

America has a history of inventing its own enemies, just saying.
 
Last edited:
In the 16th century Christianity went through a reformation. Something that ISlam has yet to do. Maybe someday Islam will reform (not likely) and we can live in this peaceful utopia you live in (in your mind). until then we are at war to protect freedom, liberty, and our way of life.

Just to be pedantic, Islam was actually quite fine until the 20th century when Wahabism, a belief from the 18th century, was finally utilized.
 
You. Don't. Get. It. Goshin.

9/11 was committed by bad people who happened to be extremist Muslim.

Many Muslims are not extremist, and did not condone the horrible act that happened on that bleak day in September.

Focus on the "bad" part, and not the "Muslim" part.

Oh please that's like saying that there were good Nazi's and good members of the KKK. Their ideology is bat**** crazy even more so then most theist ideologies and I see no other way to judge a person but on the ideology which they subscribe too. Because a theist says that their ideology comes form the lips of an imaginary man in the sky are they supposed to get a free pass? I don't think so. This is absolutely no different than putting up a confederate flag monument next to where MLK Jr. was shot or a Swastika monument next to Auschwitz.
 
Exactly.
Anyway, as it was explained to me, "jihad" has multiple meanings and does not- in the moderate Islamic faith- refer to waging war against non-Muslims. It refers to waging an internal war against one's own baser instincts, and becoming a better, more righteous person. Much as Christians are instructed to do.



And what about all this lamb and shepherd nonsense?
Are Christians not instructed to be totally submissive before their God?
Can you be a "part time Christian"? The Christian God demands total submission. Total submission means serving Him.
Part of serving God is to combat evil and sin, both within and without. This is jihad. That is what it means.
It is not an option according to the Bible.


And do christians take the bible literally as musims must. Are Christians flying airplanes into buildings to serve thier god? Are Christains straping bombs to themselfs and killing in the name of Yahweh? Are they saying Yahweh is great as they detonate themselfs? You can use the rare example of Eric Rudolph if you like. But like I said, its rare. I can document aa hundred muslim jihadist for every Christian terrorist you can come up with.
 
Last edited:
So what? Victimized people often blame the wrong people for their loss.

We're not blaming people we're blaming an ideology. Islam is the problem, it is an insane ideology and people who follow it are suffering from mass delusion the same as any other theist belief structure, however, currently Islam is the worst of the bunch.
 
And do christians take the bible literally as musims must.

Yes the extremists Christians.

Are Christians flying airplanes into buildings to serve thier god? Are Christains straping bombs to themselfs and killing in the name of Yahweh? Are they saying Yahweh is great as they detonate themselfs?

Many Christians kill in the name of God, even though it is wrong. Same goes for Islam.

But you would rather compare Islam to radicals and Christians to moderates. How dishonest of you.

You can use the rare example of Eric Rudolph if you like. But like I said, its rare. I can document aa hundred muslim jihadist for every Christian terrorist you can come up with.

Statism, how did we not see that coming.
 
Last edited:
This is a gross generalization that flies in the face of Muslims that are not about hurting anyone or making "jihad."

As I said; it's like holding Christians responsible for the Phelps family or those that bomb and kill at abortion clinics.

Just bigotry on a grand scale.

Islam is bigotry on a grand scale, their whole entire ideology is centered around the belief that non-Muslims are lesser people, the same as Christianity, the same as most theist belief structures.
 
Back
Top Bottom