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Why do the poor do badly in school?

Why do the poor do badly in school?

  • lack of ability - poor can't do the work and feel stupid

    Votes: 7 17.1%

  • lack of motivation - poor can't study way out of poverty

    Votes: 15 36.6%

  • school is racist - not taught things important to poor's race

    Votes: 1 2.4%

  • school is class-based - not taught things important to poor's class

    Votes: 4 9.8%

  • schools are underfunded - don't have special programs to help the poor

    Votes: 11 26.8%

  • urban schools don't attract talented teachers

    Votes: 14 34.1%

  • rural schools don't attract talented teachers

    Votes: 11 26.8%

  • socio-economic factors

    Votes: 23 56.1%

  • gang culture

    Votes: 19 46.3%

  • other... (please describe)

    Votes: 23 56.1%
  • Total voters
    41
Orion said:
I'm surprised nobody mentioned time management issues.

A lot of poor families are single parent households and the older siblings often take on some of the parental duties, like cooking, babysitting their siblings, cleaning, running erands, etc. That cuts into focus on school, whether it's less time to do homework, or being too tired to focus in the classroom. It can't be helped really. Survival is a priority over studies sometimes.
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I think that is a problem but not as wide spread.
A lot of single parent families aren't actually single parent.
They just aren't married, which can skew statistics.

Orion said:
I think deadbeat parenting is not the biggest factor. A lot of parents are poor but want their children to do better than they did in life. The problem is the practical survival needs that need to be met, and this can override even the well wishes of the parents. This also relates to parents being able to help their kids with homework.
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The problem is wanting and doing.
You have to back up your wants with action otherwise it's wishful thinking.

Orion said:
Also, poor areas tend to have swelling populations, since, statistically, the poor tend to have more children due to lack of education and opportunity. This in of itself creates a vicious cycle. The demand on inner city schools increases, and the divided attention among students leads to less focus in the class, higher stress rates for teachers which means more qualified teachers will look elsewhere for jobs, and poorer quality education.
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I don't disagree but quality issues can be overcome by action on the part of individuals.
That's why Asians and Immigrant Blacks do so well in poor areas.

Orion said:
I think though that it all begins with the home and family. Children who have stable households where the duties and roles are properly separated (i.e. parents focus on parental responsibilities, children focus on growing up and going to school) don't have as many problems in school, unless of course they have a developmental disability.
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We probably disagree but allowing children to have some adult responsibilities isn't a bad thing, in my mind.
It teaches them early on that, there is no such thing as a free lunch and everyone must contribute.
 
I agree that we need more training in trades. My son went to technical college and has been gainfully employed in refrigeration/heating/air conditioning ever since He moved to Tuscon AZ in the middle of the economic melt down and got a job immediately.

He was always a clever boy with his hands, a whiz at puzzles and other spatial tasks, and we strongly encouraged this career choice for him, and it has served him well.
 
Orion said:
Also, poor areas tend to have swelling populations, since, statistically, the poor tend to have more children due to lack of education and opportunity. This in of itself creates a vicious cycle. The demand on inner city schools increases, and the divided attention among students leads to less focus in the class, higher stress rates for teachers which means more qualified teachers will look elsewhere for jobs, and poorer quality education.
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Actually, inner city populations have been shrinking, drastically, for years. In some communities I've worked in, 1 in every 3 populations are abandoned and empty. Those abandoned properties become a locus for crime, drugs, gangs, etc. As the population shrinks, so do jobs, resources, and tax dollars.
 
"Acorns don't fall far from the tree." the children of the poor, share the genes that made their Parents get into the situation they are in. Only hard work can overcome that. But it can be done.
 
Skateguy said:
"Acorns don't fall far from the tree." the children of the poor, share the genes that made their Parents get into the situation they are in. Only hard work can overcome that. But it can be done.
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If they share the same genes, hard work won't overcome a genetic predisposition. Your comments are logically flawed.
 
Children of poverty are more difficult to teach due to the culture from which they come. No one has taken the time to read to them and develop a facility with language, so they have trouble reading. No one has taken the time to teach them how they should behave, so discipline problems are more common. No one has given them a goal to try to reach, so there is little motivation. Add gangs and their influence, the pervasiveness of drugs and the drug culture, and don't forget the "easy" money to be made in drug dealing, requiring no education. There is the welfare culture of dependence on government for living, along with the breakdown in family structure that welfare dependence implies.

Now, since children of poverty are difficult to teach, the best teachers are likely to transfer to suburban schools as soon as they possibly can in order to get out of a failing school and concentrate on teaching, rather than discipline.

Since school administrators are more likely to want to work in a school where success is more easily achieved, the schools serving children of poverty are less likely to be well run. Poorly run schools present a huge challenge for teachers, even when they are the most highly competent and motivated people possible.

And, there are a few heroes who work in schools of poverty for the satisfaction of being able to save a few of their students. They are often vilified for getting crosswise with administration and parents, of course, which thins out their ranks even further.

Then, there is the lack of local control. Children of poverty tend not to do well on tests, even when they have mastered the skills involved. Low test scores bring more control from the state and federal authorities, who have no clue what really needs to be done to improve the situation.

So, there really is no simple reason why the poor do badly in school, nor is there a simple solution to the problem.
 
Direct funding results from local property taxes. In impoverished areas, property value is significantly less, and therefore yields less overall funding for education. This in turn impacts new faculty salary, educational materials, after school programs, etc.... Given that impoverished areas require "free lunch" programs, security, and replacement costs and so on, (in much greater levels), extra curricular programs suffer as a result.

Which is why many large cities "bus in" a great deal of students from impoverished areas: many schools themselves are forced to close. Federal funding for education is commonly based on "standardized testing", and attendance. It should be no surprise that both of these benchmarks in impoverished areas underachieve.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
If they share the same genes, hard work won't overcome a genetic predisposition. Your comments are logically flawed.
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I must disagree. My folks were dirt poor. Poorer even than Our Black neighbors. Through hard work and determination, I have become self sufficient, and dependent on no one. I'm not all that smart, but I have zero quit in me. I swore to my self, to never give up, and to do what ever it takes to make my dreams come true. I have succeeded.
 
Skateguy said:
I must disagree. My folks were dirt poor. Poorer even than Our Black neighbors. Through hard work and determination, I have become self sufficient, and dependent on no one. I'm not all that smart, but I have zero quit in me. I swore to my self, to never give up, and to do what ever it takes to make my dreams come true. I have succeeded.
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You cannot apply the unfolding of events in your life so to undermine another situation in the form of "laziness". Doing so makes you a disingenuous poster, and someone who does not deal in reality.
 
MyOwnDrum said:
I agree that we need more training in trades. My son went to technical college and has been gainfully employed in refrigeration/heating/air conditioning ever since He moved to Tuscon AZ in the middle of the economic melt down and got a job immediately.

He was always a clever boy with his hands, a whiz at puzzles and other spatial tasks, and we strongly encouraged this career choice for him, and it has served him well.
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An HVAC tech in AZ will make good money....likewise any place that gets hot a lot....

Back in the old days, before AC, people had no choice but to suffer in the summer. But we get used to modern technology, and become addicted to it, and what was once a luxury becomes a necessity.
All forms of technology need the techs who can keep it running....
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
Geesh, it sounds like you had an awesome set who cared.
Bad parents can be worse than no parents.
They tried to do the same things for my younger sister but she only cared in as much as trying to get money and things from them.
When my grandmother died, my sister tried to get her jewelery from my grandfather.

My grandfather, who's still living thank goodness, was always around my house growing up teaching me life lessons and telling stories about what it takes to be a good man.
Teaching me to save my money and similar things.

It took it a while for it to set in but it worked.
Now I have to get the lazy parts, I got from my parents, out of my system.
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Some forms of "lazy" are good....if you are looking to make things easier.
Lots of inventions and innovations come from the "lazy".....
 
Skateguy said:
I must disagree. My folks were dirt poor. Poorer even than Our Black neighbors. Through hard work and determination, I have become self sufficient, and dependent on no one. I'm not all that smart, but I have zero quit in me. I swore to my self, to never give up, and to do what ever it takes to make my dreams come true. I have succeeded.
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Then poverty wasn't genetic, was it?

My guess is that you don't clearly understand the term genetic.
 
UtahBill said:
High expectations yeild better results than low expectations.....
we told our kids to go to college at our expense, as it might be the only inheritance they ever get.....
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my father said I could go to anyplace I wanted but if it was Yale he'd pay for it. So I applied to Amherst as well and he admitted that Amherst was good enough to pay for as well but I ended up at Yale nonetheless
 
TurtleDude said:
my father said I could go to anyplace I wanted but if it was Yale he'd pay for it. So I applied to Amherst as well and he admitted that Amherst was good enough to pay for as well but I ended up at Yale nonetheless
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are you secretly GWB?:2razz:
 
Catz Part Deux said:
-- 1. Children don't learn to read in the early school years.
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In some parts of Europe, no kids learn to read before the age of 9 and they have pretty good social mobility.

Catz Part Deux said:
-- Lack of parental engagement in education is hugely significant. If parents are not involved, the performance of school staff often tends to be substandard.
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I agree the first statement but cannot agree the second. As a teacher about to leave the profession in the next year or so - I'm pretty tired of the modern view that everything is the teacher's fault.
It used to be funny if a student left my course because their parents were moving city or the student decided that their career goals had changed but when that affected my grading it stopped being funny. I even had one student die through breast cancer and I ended up filling a form explaining what I could (or should) have done to keep the student...

There are some amazing teachers out there breaking their backs to motivate all their kids but sometimes when a kid goes back home to a non-aspirational environment it makes no difference what the teachers are up to or how good they are (or not)
 
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UtahBill said:
are you secretly GWB?:2razz:
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Nah, I wasn't a cheerleader, actually made honors and earned four varsity letters. I did get into Harvard B School but didn't go. I didn't get tapped by Skull and Bones either
 
reefedjib said:
We recently talked about some of this in another thread. I am curious what others think are the driving factors for why the poor, both urban and rural, do so poorly in school.
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I grew up poor and made As and Bs of course then again my mother would beat my ass if I slacked off. So perhaps its the gangs and lack of parental involvement why a lot of poor kids fail, and it could also be crappy teachers.
 
I came from humble beginnings and made it to a university education and a successful professional life. I credit my success to:

1. Concerned parents who encouraged and nurtured my capabilities
2. My own determination and hard work
3. Certain amazing teachers who loved their job and did it well
4. A socialist influenced education system that was free to all, including free university education
5. A system which allowed teachers professional autonomy without imposing over rigid curricula and targets upon them.

Impediments I overcame were:

1. Certain xenophobic and sexist assumptions on the part of some in the system.
2. Certain unimpassioned teachers who should have given up long ago.

I detest the "If I did it, so can anybody" mentality. Many people, especially in unfair societies like the US, just have too much stacked against them from the start. I worked hard but I was also lucky.
 
Urethra Franklin said:
I came from humble beginnings and made it to a university education and a successful professional life. I credit my success to:

1. Concerned parents who encouraged and nurtured my capabilities
2. My own determination and hard work
3. Certain amazing teachers who loved their job and did it well
4. A socialist influenced education system that was free to all, including free university education
5. A system which allowed teachers professional autonomy without imposing over rigid curricula and targets upon them.

Impediments I overcame were:

1. Certain xenophobic and sexist assumptions on the part of some in the system.
2. Certain unimpassioned teachers who should have given up long ago.

I detest the "If I did it, so can anybody" mentality. Many people, especially in unfair societies like the US, just have too much stacked against them from the start. I worked hard but I was also lucky.
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WTF is a FAIR SOCIETY

sounds like a code word for lowest common denominator
 
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