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Why do the poor do badly in school?

Why do the poor do badly in school?


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We recently talked about some of this in another thread. I am curious what others think are the driving factors for why the poor, both urban and rural, do so poorly in school.

It's entirely cultural.

Parents who do not value education impress that upon their children.
Getting mad at your kids, for not getting good grades, is not enough to get them to learn well.

Your actual behavior towards learning is what affects them most.
 
Bad parenting, mostly, and communal disarray; not to be confused with General Disarray...

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Bad parenting, mostly, and communal disarray; not to be confused with General Disarray...

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There's plenty of bad parenting in the middle and upper classes.
 
There's plenty of bad parenting in the middle and upper classes.

I know. My younger brother AND sister are examples of this - neither of them are achieving anything of worth. Once again, bad parenting...

Also, I did mention communal disarray.
 
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When the parents are uneducated themselves, they tend to not support the child's education as a priority. That's a huge risk factor.

I'll ask my brother-in-law about it tonight. He is the first one from his family to go to college and he worked his way through a Masters program in Aeronautical Engineering. Very smart guy.
 
Mellie, what caused you to be so motivated? Was it expected of you that you would attend college? Did your parents go to college? Are you now poor or did your education help you out of that?

You can vote for more than one option...

I suppose it was seeing my sister do it before me. I wanted to get out of my little town and make something of myself. My parents assumed I would go to college (and I never wanted to do anything else) and no, they didn't go to college. I consider myself rich now. I'm a teacher who doesn't think she's overpaid. Yes, I have school loans to pay back, but I'm very comfortable financially. If I had to do it all over again, the only thing I would choose a less expensive school. ;)
 
I know. My younger brother AND sister are examples of this - neither of them are achieving anything of worth. Once again, bad parenting...

Also, I did mention communal disarray.

Didn't that bad parenting affect you as well? Perhaps in a different way, though?
In my case, I just rejected their way of life and got out on my own. However,
I have 2 siblings, one younger, one older, who really needed some help around 3rd grade, which both of them failed.
My parents made only token effort to help them out. I tried with my younger brother, but he not only was a bit slow, he just didn't care. Except for 2 years in the Navy, he has never worked a full time job. He lived at home as the eternal child for all but that 2 years.
If our parents hadn't left him their house (only slightly better built than a shack), he would be homeless today....
 
I'll ask my brother-in-law about it tonight. He is the first one from his family to go to college and he worked his way through a Masters program in Aeronautical Engineering. Very smart guy.

My parents both only have high school educations but were very ambitious for my brother and I. They pushed us both to go to college. It worked on me, didn't work on my brother (he failed out of college and ended up enlisting in the Navy, where he did very well).

I was the first person in my dad's side of the family to graduate from college (and still one of only 2 or 3). My dad is from the Ozarks, and none of his siblings' children ever went to school.
 
But what about kids who don't get that? Do you really believe that the average 7 year old will motivate himself/herself without parental support and supervision?

Survey says no.

No, I don't think so either. The kids I have seen in my 6 years of teaching who are good students have parents that make sure they get homework and projects finished at home. They come to conferences. They call with concerns. I have also seen kids that are incredibly smart, but there's no parental support so they don't bring homework or projects back which affects their grades. My parents were very good at making sure we had our homework done. My dad was very hard on us if we even got a B because he knew we could do better.
 
When the parents are uneducated themselves, they tend to not support the child's education as a priority. That's a huge risk factor.

BUT, you would think that they would encourage their kids to do better....

Prevalent attitude in our house was 18 and out, with my dad of the opinion that " I didn't get any help from my parents and you don't need to expect any from me"....and all I was asking was free room and board at home while I went to community college...
The oldest of us siblings adopted the same attitude, telling his kids that they were on their own. I am pretty sure that NONE of my nieces and nephews on my side of the family ever attended college, much less graduate.
On my wife's side, tho, most are college grads, a few did the tech school thing.
The really big difference between my siblings kids and my wife's siblings kids, obviously the parenting and the grandparenting...
 
Didn't that bad parenting affect you as well? Perhaps in a different way, though?

It did affect me, yes, as it took me longer than it should have to begin my "adult life", but I was the oldest of the three, so I was given more discipline and responsibility than my younger siblings, who were basically spoiled; this increased discipline and responsibility translated into success once I matured.

In my case, I just rejected their way of life and got out on my own. However,
I have 2 siblings, one younger, one older, who really needed some help around 3rd grade, which both of them failed.
My parents made only token effort to help them out. I tried with my younger brother, but he not only was a bit slow, he just didn't care. Except for 2 years in the Navy, he has never worked a full time job. He lived at home as the eternal child for all but that 2 years.
If our parents hadn't left him their house (only slightly better built than a shack), he would be homeless today....

My younger siblings were just spoiled. They were barely ever disciplined, and they weren't given any kind of work responsibilities at home; my dad just didn't have the resolve to punish them; he tried to win a popularity contest with them; he didn't do that with me. The results speak for themselves.
 
Didn't that bad parenting affect you as well? Perhaps in a different way, though?
In my case, I just rejected their way of life and got out on my own. However,
I have 2 siblings, one younger, one older, who really needed some help around 3rd grade, which both of them failed.
My parents made only token effort to help them out. I tried with my younger brother, but he not only was a bit slow, he just didn't care. Except for 2 years in the Navy, he has never worked a full time job. He lived at home as the eternal child for all but that 2 years.
If our parents hadn't left him their house (only slightly better built than a shack), he would be homeless today....

I had a similar upbringing.

Out of my sisters, cousins and myself, I'm the only one trying to do anything with my life.
My father did finish college but he was in his late 40's when he did, most of my life he was uninvolved with any of my education and only cared when I did bad in school.
My mother was busy trying to be my friend.
My younger sister is on life support from my parents, even though she is a border line criminal and my older sister is spoiled by her maternal grandparents with no want to achieve anything.

I credit my backwards success to my grandfather, he was more or less my actual father, he cared about me doing something positive with my life.
 
It did affect me, yes, as it took me longer than it should have to begin my "adult life", but I was the oldest of the three, so I was given more discipline and responsibility than my younger siblings, who were basically spoiled; this increased discipline and responsibility translated into success once I matured.



My younger siblings were just spoiled. They were barely ever disciplined, and they weren't given any kind of work responsibilities at home; my dad just didn't have the resolve to punish them; he tried to win a popularity contest with them; he didn't do that with me. The results speak for themselves.

Comes a time that we are all on our own, with some of us better prepared for it that others....you sound like the lucky one from your family.
 
BUT, you would think that they would encourage their kids to do better.......

It's interesting. I don't believe that my cousins (on my dad's side) were told that they should go to college. I think that they all got the sense that a high school diploma was plenty of education. So, that's as far as they went.

My dad left the Ozarks and moved to the city, where he met and married my mom. Her cousins all went to college (though she didn't). Apparently, my dad became invested in the idea of my brother and I going to college so that we could be white collar like my mom's side of the family rather than blue collar like his side of the family.

The prevaling cultural values of the community and family have a huge influence.
 
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Comes a time that we are all on our own, with some of us better prepared for it that others....you sound like the lucky one from your family.

My prescription would be more wholesome ass-whoopings (spanking, strapping). I know I could have used a few more myself...
 
My prescription would be more wholesome ass-whoopings (spanking, strapping). I know I could have used a few more myself...

(Note: I'm not against spanking)

It takes more than spankings and punishment to get a person to want to improve themselves.
The Black community is a testament to this, as their parenting style is much more physical with punishment than many others.
That is a generalization though.

It takes a parent who wants to learn to teach their children to learn.
 
I had a similar upbringing.

Out of my sisters, cousins and myself, I'm the only one trying to do anything with my life.
My father did finish college but he was in his late 40's when he did, most of my life he was uninvolved with any of my education and only cared when I did bad in school.
My mother was busy trying to be my friend.
My younger sister is on life support from my parents, even though she is a border line criminal and my older sister is spoiled by her maternal grandparents with no want to achieve anything.

I credit my backwards success to my grandfather, he was more or less my actual father, he cared about me doing something positive with my life.

One set of my grandparents tried to help me and one sister, the only 2 who showed a reasonable amount of brains and a desire to learn.
BUT, for me anyway, I didn't find out about it until I was in my mid 20's that they had offered to take me to their house for my last 2 years of HS, where I surely would have done better. Grandpa had connections with maritime colleges, as he was a merchant marine ship captain...they would have made sure I got into college. My parents denied me that opportunity, and I never knew for about 10 years...
But, the navy turned out to be a good alternative...
 
My prescription would be more wholesome ass-whoopings (spanking, strapping). I know I could have used a few more myself...

Oh, there was plenty of that, for ME and the smart sister, not the other sister just older than me, or the brother just younger....
According to dad, mother was resentful of her own kids getting more education than she got, which was 3rd grade....
Somehow the other sister (the smart one) and I pissed her off a lot....

Some kids, tho, will fail no matter what is done for them, or to them. They just don't have a clue...
 
One set of my grandparents tried to help me and one sister, the only 2 who showed a reasonable amount of brains and a desire to learn.
BUT, for me anyway, I didn't find out about it until I was in my mid 20's that they had offered to take me to their house for my last 2 years of HS, where I surely would have done better. Grandpa had connections with maritime colleges, as he was a merchant marine ship captain...they would have made sure I got into college. My parents denied me that opportunity, and I never knew for about 10 years...
But, the navy turned out to be a good alternative...

Geesh, it sounds like you had an awesome set who cared.
Bad parents can be worse than no parents.
They tried to do the same things for my younger sister but she only cared in as much as trying to get money and things from them.
When my grandmother died, my sister tried to get her jewelery from my grandfather.

My grandfather, who's still living thank goodness, was always around my house growing up teaching me life lessons and telling stories about what it takes to be a good man.
Teaching me to save my money and similar things.

It took it a while for it to set in but it worked.
Now I have to get the lazy parts, I got from my parents, out of my system.
 
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(Note: I'm not against spanking)

It takes more than spankings and punishment to get a person to want to improve themselves.
The Black community is a testament to this, as their parenting style is much more physical with punishment than many others.
That is a generalization though.

It takes a parent who wants to learn to teach their children to learn.

Of course. I agree with this, however, sometimes physical discipline is absolutely required to supplement the process. Often times, a "contest" between child and parent reaches a point were defiance can only be resolved with physical discipline. I know that was the only language I understood at times.

One of my golfing buddies and I actually reminisce laughingly about the physical punishment we received from our fathers. It's just part of becoming a man; being hardy and rustic; neither of us are emotionally scarred from getting some good whacks on the butt (not saying that's what you think).

I think physical punishment is overlooked and under appreciated in our sanitized, PC little world. If your kid is acting like a defiant little brat, whack them on the ass!!! It's worked for thousands of years...
 
Of course. I agree with this, however, sometimes physical discipline is absolutely required to supplement the process. Often times, a "contest" between child and parent reaches a point were defiance can only be resolved with physical discipline. I know that was the only language I understood at times.

One of my golfing buddies and I actually reminisce laughingly about the physical punishment we received from our fathers. It's just part of becoming a man; being hardy and rustic; neither of us are emotionally scarred from getting some good whacks on the butt (not saying that's what you think).

I think physical punishment is overlooked and under appreciated in our sanitized, PC little world. If your kid is acting like a defiant little brat, whack them on the ass!!! It's worked for thousands of years...

I don't disagree.
If you do it right, you'll need it less as the years go on.

Most of that can, usually, be handled in early childhood.
My older son requires almost no spankings, he did in his earlier years.
The younger one needs a couple every now and then but they must be accompanied by verbal correction.
 
Oh, there was plenty of that, for ME and the smart sister, not the other sister just older than me, or the brother just younger....
According to dad, mother was resentful of her own kids getting more education than she got, which was 3rd grade....
Somehow the other sister (the smart one) and I pissed her off a lot....

Some kids, tho, will fail no matter what is done for them, or to them. They just don't have a clue...

I think another part of the problem is the rigidity of our education system. We need to rid ourselves of this moronic delusion that every child needs to receive a "liberal arts" education; some people are just destined to become plumbers or carpenters or construction workers (nothing wrong with ANY of those jobs). The only mandatory learning I feel should exist is basic arithmetic, reading, grammar, and civics; once that knowledge base has been acquired, I think students and parents should be given more latitude in the education path they choose; I would be very supportive of a trades path in public schools and a high school diploma equivalent for people who choose such a path.
 
I think another part of the problem is the rigidity of our education system. We need to rid ourselves of this moronic delusion that every child needs to receive a "liberal arts" education; some people are just destined to become plumbers or carpenters or construction workers (nothing wrong with ANY of those jobs). The only mandatory learning I feel should exist is basic arithmetic, reading, grammar, and civics; once that knowledge base has been acquired, I think students and parents should be given more latitude in the education path they choose; I would be very supportive of a trades path in public schools and a high school diploma equivalent for people who choose such a path.

My high school was very shortsighted when it came to trade skills and classes.

We had automotive and construction classes but they were horribly underfunded.

I was in the electrical program and it was a joke.
The teacher had to buy lumber out of his pocket and we had no other supplies like wiring materials, nails, etc.
We had plenty of tools but those are useless if you don't have anything to put together.
 
I'm surprised nobody mentioned time management issues.

A lot of poor families are single parent households and the older siblings often take on some of the parental duties, like cooking, babysitting their siblings, cleaning, running erands, etc. That cuts into focus on school, whether it's less time to do homework, or being too tired to focus in the classroom. It can't be helped really. Survival is a priority over studies sometimes.

I think deadbeat parenting is not the biggest factor. A lot of parents are poor but want their children to do better than they did in life. The problem is the practical survival needs that need to be met, and this can override even the well wishes of the parents. This also relates to parents being able to help their kids with homework.

Also, poor areas tend to have swelling populations, since, statistically, the poor tend to have more children due to lack of education and opportunity. This in of itself creates a vicious cycle. The demand on inner city schools increases, and the divided attention among students leads to less focus in the class, higher stress rates for teachers which means more qualified teachers will look elsewhere for jobs, and poorer quality education.

I think though that it all begins with the home and family. Children who have stable households where the duties and roles are properly separated (i.e. parents focus on parental responsibilities, children focus on growing up and going to school) don't have as many problems in school, unless of course they have a developmental disability.
 
I think another part of the problem is the rigidity of our education system. We need to rid ourselves of this moronic delusion that every child needs to receive a "liberal arts" education; some people are just destined to become plumbers or carpenters or construction workers (nothing wrong with ANY of those jobs). The only mandatory learning I feel should exist is basic arithmetic, reading, grammar, and civics; once that knowledge base has been acquired, I think students and parents should be given more latitude in the education path they choose; I would be very supportive of a trades path in public schools and a high school diploma equivalent for people who choose such a path.

Some schools have great trade school programs. I forget the school, but their auto tech program graduated kids from HS that went right to dealerships making very good money.....
 
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