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Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

  • No

    Votes: 99 79.2%

  • Yes, explain

    Votes: 26 20.8%
  • Total voters
    125
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Blackdog said:
Yes there is, it is wrong. Has nothing to do with bigotry.
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Just like it was wrong to be black 60 years ago. :roll:

No one said it was a “Christian Domain” it is however a religious one.
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Not all religions are against homosexuality.

Yes! Because there is nothing subjective about people morals. :doh

Using the definition:

A bigot is a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices. The correct use of the term requires the elements of intolerance, irrationality, and animosity toward those of differing beliefs.

Please point out how any of my statements can have this applied to them?
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Yes, I'm a bigot, towards bigots. I have no patience for people who are racist, sexist, homophobic, anti-Semitic, or any other form of racism, and discrimination. Plain and simple, you can have your own beliefs, but when it starts affecting other people, in a negative way, then shut up.
 
Blackdog said:
Yes there is, it is wrong. Has nothing to do with bigotry.
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Wrong is an opinion... nothing more. It is an intolerant and irrational opinion.

No one said it was a “Christian Domain” it is however a religious one.
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It is neither... it is a term.

marriage   /ˈmærɪdʒ/ Show Spelled[mar-ij] Show IPA
–noun
1. a. the social institution under which a man and woman establish their decision to live as husband and wife by legal commitments, religious ceremonies, etc.
b. a similar institution involving partners of the same gender: gay marriage.
2. the state, condition, or relationship of being married; wedlock: a happy marriage
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Marriage | Define Marriage at Dictionary.com

It can be used for a religious reason or simply to denote the status of the relationship. Christians and religious types have tried to hijack the term and tried to make it sound holy and religiously important and at the same time tried to make homosexuals appear unholy and sinful. It is an illogical argument. It is based on nothing other than your belief.

Yes! Because there is nothing subjective about people morals. :doh

Using the definition:

A bigot is a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices. The correct use of the term requires the elements of intolerance, irrationality, and animosity toward those of differing beliefs.

Please point out how any of my statements can have this applied to them?
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You are showing intolerance towards homosexuals by trying to stop them from being able to get married. How is this not obvious to you?
 
Your Star said:
Just like it was wrong to be black 60 years ago. :roll:
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Who is saying it is wrong to be gay? I am saying I see it as a sin and it has nothing to do with race or anything even close.

I have nothing against a person who is gay, but I will not condone or support the life style. This does not make anyone a bigot.

Your Star said:
Not all religions are against homosexuality.
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So what?

Your Star said:
Yes, I'm a bigot, towards bigots. I have no patience for people who are racist, sexist, homophobic, anti-Semitic, or any other form of racism, and discrimination. Plain and simple, you can have your own beliefs, but when it starts affecting other people, in a negative way, then shut up.
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So instead of addressing my post in any beneficial way, you would rather resort to what amounts to hyperbole.

Well thanks for input that was worthless.
 
Bodhisattva said:
Wrong is an opinion... nothing more. It is an intolerant and irrational opinion.
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In your opinion, lol.

Bodhisattva said:
It is neither... it is a term.

Marriage | Define Marriage at Dictionary.com
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Actually it would depend on which state constitution you look at.

Bodhisattva said:
It can be used for a religious reason or simply to denote the status of the relationship. Christians and religious types have tried to hijack the term and tried to make it sound holy and religiously important and at the same time tried to make homosexuals appear unholy and sinful. It is an illogical argument. It is based on nothing other than your belief.
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This is absolutely not true. In this country it is the PC or leftist crowed that has tried to hijack the meaning. Up until the last what? 20 years it meant one man and one woman, period. Before that it was literally a religious institution until the government decided to get involved.

So you tell me who hijacked what?

Bodhisattva said:
You are showing intolerance towards homosexuals by trying to stop them from being able to get married. How is this not obvious to you?
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No I am not. I am showing intolerance for the life style and not the person. No animosity is involved in any way. So no.
 
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Blackdog said:
Who is saying it is wrong to be gay? I am saying I see it as a sin and it has nothing to do with race or anything even close.

I have nothing against a person who is gay, but I will not condone or support the life style. This does not make anyone a bigot.
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You are, and being gay is just like someone's race. You don't get a choice in it, and it is just the way a person is. You say you aren't a bigot, but your post is full of bigoted comments. I would respect your opinion if you supported gay marriage. I know many Christians who think homosexuality is a sin, but support gay marriage because they have the common sense to know that the US is a secular nation. But you want to push your religious beliefs on people who may not share those same beliefs, and just want to move one with their lives.
 
Your Star said:
You are, and being gay is just like someone's race. You don't get a choice in it, and it is just the way a person is.
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No it is not. Science has not found a "gay gene" although they do have evidence pointing to maybe something similar in SOME cases.

So no it is not the same at all.

Your Star said:
You say you aren't a bigot, but your post is full of bigoted comments.
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Then point them out. This is the second time I have asked.

Your Star said:
I would respect your opinion if you supported gay marriage.
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So you will disrespect me for not following my own morals, religion etc. You would however respect me if I gave up who I am and supported gay marraige.

No thanks.

Your Star said:
I know many Christians who think homosexuality is a sin, but support gay marriage because they have the common sense to know that the US is a secular nation.
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Ummmm.... I know this is a secular nation. I served 14 years altogether serving this secular nation. Don't presume to tell me about my country's government and laws. I know better than you ever will what this country is about I suspect.

This has nothing at all to do with seperation of church and state.

Please point out where in the Constitution it says...

People may only support laws that have nothing to do with the morals they hold close.

Your Star said:
But you want to push your religious beliefs on people who may not share those same beliefs, and just want to move one with their lives.
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No, I want to follow my own conscience and remain true to myself and my God.
 
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Blackdog said:
No it is not. Science has not found a "gay gene" although they do have evidence pointing to maybe something similar in SOME cases.
So no it is not the same at all.
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Yes it is, do you seriously believe that LGBT people would voluntarily put themselves through all the hate, and bigotry that people like you put them through?

Then point them out. This is the second time I have asked.
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When you say that you would deny them the right to marriage, thats bigoted.


So you will disrespect me for not following my own morals, religion etc. You would however respect me if I gave up who I am and supported gay marraige.

No thanks.
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I could care less what you believe, but when you want push your believes on others, and oppress others because of your believes. Thats when i have issues. You can't use religion as to why something should or shouldn't be in this country.


Ummmm.... I know this is a secular nation. I served 14 years altogether serving this secular nation. Don't presume to tell me about my country's government and laws. I know better than you ever will what this country is about I suspect.

This has nothing at all to do with seperation of church and state.

Please point out where in the Constitution it says...
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Thank you for your service, but that doesn't make your views better than mine.
It has everything to do with separation between Church, and State. Tell me, would we be having this debate if religion never mentioned marriage, and it was solely a government run, and endorsed institution?

People may only support laws that have nothing to do with the morals they hold close.
No, I want to follow my own conscience and remain true to myself and my God.
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The first amendment, if you have beliefs that cause you to belief that some people are inferior, than fine. But if you try to push legislation to make that belief government policy, then sorry the first amendment steps in and stops you. This country is based on the premise that ALL men are created equal, not just people that the major religion in this country say is equal.
 
Your Star said:
Yes it is, do you seriously believe that LGBT people would voluntarily put themselves through all the hate, and bigotry that people like you put them through?

When you say that you would deny them the right to marriage, thats bigoted.

I could care less what you believe, but when you want push your believes on others, and oppress others because of your believes. Thats when i have issues. You can't use religion as to why something should or shouldn't be in this country.

Thank you for your service, but that doesn't make your views better than mine.
It has everything to do with separation between Church, and State. Tell me, would we be having this debate if religion never mentioned marriage, and it was solely a government run, and endorsed institution?

The first amendment, if you have beliefs that cause you to belief that some people are inferior, than fine. But if you try to push legislation to make that belief government policy, then sorry the first amendment steps in and stops you. This country is based on the premise that ALL men are created equal, not just people that the major religion in this country say is equal.
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When you are ready to debate we will continue. Ranting and hyperbole are not debate.
 
Your Star said:
In other words I win :cool:
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No. You contribute nothing to the thread and make personal attacks. That is not a debate and nothing to win for anyone.
 
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Here's what I see. Blackdog thinks homosexuality is a sin. Because of this he thinks that gays shouldn't be able to marry. Your star thinks that is oppressive to gays. From what little I have read of this thread, that's what I see here. Blackdog thinks it's wrong because of his personal beliefs and Your star thinks he wants to tell others how to live based on his personal morality.
 
independent_thinker2002 said:
Here's what I see. Blackdog thinks homosexuality is a sin.
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Yes

independent_thinker2002 said:
Because of this he thinks that gays shouldn't be able to marry.
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I challenge anyone to point out where I have said this? It should not be called marriage, I fully support civil unions for gays. If you had read my earlier posts you would have known this.

You are doing exactly the same thing others continue to do. Assume I have said something based on later posts and not the total of my debates or even close to the point I was making.

independent_thinker2002 said:
Your star thinks that is oppressive to gays. From what little I have read of this thread, that's what I see here. Blackdog thinks it's wrong because of his personal beliefs and Your star thinks he wants to tell others how to live based on his personal morality.
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Not correct on my end.
 
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Er, Blackdog's kinda right. You really aren't doing a whole lot of debating.

Your Star said:
Yes it is, do you seriously believe that LGBT people would voluntarily put themselves through all the hate, and bigotry that people like you put them through?
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I don't recall any point at which Blackdog said he hates LGBT people. Know why? It's because he never did. Love the argumentum ad hominem there.

When you say that you would deny them the right to marriage, thats bigoted.
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Everybody can already marry. It's just that they can't marry whomever they want. The same restrictions apply to everybody, sorry.

I could care less what you believe, but when you want push your believes on others, and oppress others because of your believes. Thats when i have issues. You can't use religion as to why something should or shouldn't be in this country.
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You believe that murder is wrong, presumably. Do you think that you and 99% of the population has the right to force serial killers to conform to your beliefs?

Zing.
Thank you for your service, but that doesn't make your views better than mine.
It has everything to do with separation between Church, and State. Tell me, would we be having this debate if religion never mentioned marriage, and it was solely a government run, and endorsed institution?
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A fair point. For most people? Unlikely.

The first amendment, if you have beliefs that cause you to belief that some people are inferior, than fine. But if you try to push legislation to make that belief government policy, then sorry the first amendment steps in and stops you. This country is based on the premise that ALL men are created equal, not just people that the major religion in this country say is equal.
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Argument is fail. With laws against homosexual marriage, everyone has exactly the same privileges. Heterosexual men can't marry each other either, you know. :thumbs:

Oh, and as for the First Amendment? Read the bloody Constitution before you start citing it.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibit the free exercise thereof."

In other words, U.S. Congress cannot institute a national church or keep people from practicing their religion.

I beg of you: do the rest of us a favor and abstain from voting until you pass a high school course in US History.
 
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Blackdog said:
I challenge anyone to point out where I have said this? It should not be called marriage, I fully support civil unions for gays. If you had read my earlier posts you would have known this.
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Oh, it's a semantic argument. You want a special term for it. I don't see what the point is other than to try to disassociate gay couples from hetero ones.

Blackdog said:
You are doing exactly the same thing others continue to do. Assume I have said something based on later posts and not the total of my debates or even close to the point I was making.
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Sorry, I'm not reading a hundred plus pages of this thread.

Blackdog said:
Not correct on my end.
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I understand where you are coming from now.
 
Black_Zawisza said:
In other words, U.S. Congress cannot institute a national church or keep people from practicing their religion.

I beg of you: do the rest of us a favor and abstain from voting until you pass a high school course in US History.
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Gay marriage won't infringe on anyone's right to practice their religion.

Let's not delve into personal attacks.
 
independent_thinker2002 said:
Oh, it's a semantic argument. You want a special term for it. I don't see what the point is other than to try to disassociate gay couples from hetero ones.
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Then you still don't see my argument.

independent_thinker2002 said:
Sorry, I'm not reading a hundred plus pages of this thread.
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It is much easier to jump in and make baseless assumptions.

independent_thinker2002 said:
I understand where you are coming from now.
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Not really.
 
You are, and being gay is just like someone's race. You don't get a choice in it, and it is just the way a person is.
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I have yet to see proof of this. Being gay is a sexual preference. It seems logical then that being gay is less like someone's race, and more like someone's taste in music, or food, or movies, etc...

Do people sit down and say "I am going to choose to like classical music" or "I have just decided that I am going to enjoy smoking Camel cigarettes more than I enjoy smoking Marlboros?" Maybe not, but they do make a choice to listen to classical music, and they do make a choice to try smoking cigarettes, and their preferences in that regard will be influenced in some way by the choices they make.

Why does it even matter? Suppose that I am right, and it is a lifestyle choice. Does that suddenly make it ok to discriminate against them? Would it be ok to discriminate against people who prefer to listen to Chopin rather than Garth Brooks? How is whether its a choice or not even relevant to your argument here?
 
Blackdog said:
Then you still don't see my argument.



It is much easier to jump in and make baseless assumptions.



Not really.
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Well, humor me then. Tell me what your position is. It shouldn't take more than a couple sentences.
 
Panache said:
I have yet to see proof of this. Being gay is a sexual preference. It seems logical then that being gay is less like someone's race, and more like someone's taste in music, or food, or movies, etc...

Do people sit down and say "I am going to choose to like classical music" or "I have just decided that I am going to enjoy smoking Camel cigarettes more than I enjoy smoking Marlboros?" Maybe not, but they do make a choice to listen to classical music, and they do make a choice to try smoking cigarettes, and their preferences in that regard will be influenced in some way by the choices they make.

Why does it even matter? Suppose that I am right, and it is a lifestyle choice. Does that suddenly make it ok to discriminate against them? Would it be ok to discriminate against people who prefer to listen to Chopin rather than Garth Brooks? How is whether its a choice or not even relevant to your argument here?
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I think the distinction is one is a behavior and the other is the essence of who they are.
 
independent_thinker2002 said:
Well, humor me then. Tell me what your position is. It shouldn't take more than a couple sentences.
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Why? I really don't want to waist anymore time with this as no one wants to know anyone else's position. They would rather insult and make petty jokes rather than understand what is being typed.

You obviously did not care before, so why would you care now?

No personal affront to you, but I am no longer interested to be honest. I don't think you are either.
 
independent_thinker2002 said:
I think the distinction is one is a behavior and the other is the essence of who they are.
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Ok, so listening to Heavy Metal is a behavior, but being a Metalhead is the essence of who you are. Does that make being a Metalhead somehow uninfluenced by any factors other than biological predisposition?

More to the point, does it make being a Metalhead somehow more acceptable?

Lets suppose for a moment that being a sociopath with violent urges was an immutable essence of who you are sort of thing. Now the sociopath can't help being a sociopath, but we still put laws in place to keep them from acting on their violent predisposition.

Similarly, no one to my knowledge has ever suggested making a law that discriminates against people based on their preference for the same sex, but rather on their choice to act on that preference.

No one wants to stop gay men from marrying women for example, they only want to stop them from marrying other men, which would not be a direct discrimination against their nature for being gay, but rather for their choice to act on it.

Any way you cut it, the real argument is whether people should be discriminated against based on their choice to engage in a homosexual relationship, not based on any immutable nature of their being.
 
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Blackdog said:
Why? I really don't want to waist anymore time with this as no one wants to know anyone else's position. They would rather insult and make petty jokes rather than understand what is being typed.

You obviously did not care before, so why would you care now?

No personal affront to you, but I am no longer interested to be honest. I don't think you are either.
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I just asked you for your position. I didn't make fun of you.

Good grief.
 
Panache said:
Ok, so listening to Heavy Metal is a behavior, but being a Metalhead is the essence of who you are. Does that make being a Metalhead somehow uninfluenced by any factors other than biological predisposition?
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Environmental factors play a part too.

But I was just pointing out the angles that are used for each explanation. I don't necessarily disagree with you.
 
independent_thinker2002 said:
I just asked you for your position. I didn't make fun of you.

Good grief.
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I know, that is why I said no affront to you. It was not meant as an attack on you in any way.

I was referring to the general flow of the thread, that and the fact that anyone with an opposing opinion is automatically branded bigot etc. And treated like they are stupid.

I really am tired of this thread and the Christian school thread. The stupidity level in both threads is just overwhelming.

PS I honestly don't think you are really that interested in my opinion. I mean it can be summed up in maybe the last 4 or 5 pages I think.
 
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