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Racism in America

Which of the following statements do you agree with?

  • America is becoming more and more racist

    Votes: 5 12.8%
  • America isn't becoming any more racist but racists in America are becoming more and more vocal

    Votes: 22 56.4%
  • America is no more or less racist today that it has ever been

    Votes: 14 35.9%
  • America is not a racist country and never has been

    Votes: 3 7.7%

  • Total voters
    39
No.

Just the observance of a disparity does not logically imply the existence of racism, the judgement of the vagina of Supreme Court Justice Sotomayor to the contrary notwithstanding.

40 years of race discrimination jurisprudence would disagree with you.

But what do I know, I have only handled a few hundred cases of it, how about you?
 
Which of the following statements do you agree with:

I don't really agree with any of them.

Apparently racism isn't an American-only thing. It's all over the world - every country, every culture.

When I realized that there went my concern with trying to end racism. It's, apparently, a part of human nature. I don't understand it but I don't care about it like I use to.

However, I believe Racism in America is far less common than racism in some other countries and cultures. In part because our issues with it in the past are far more recent than other countries - were more adamantly against it.

I do feel that Americans have a horrible habit of generalizing everything - making broad sweeping statements that offend many and are rarely true.
The recently thrashed statement that "If you're racist then you're probably a Republican" is proven wrong time and time again by every Black Democrat whose tossed a cracker-comment or vilified all "evil white men" at some point.
 
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40 years of race discrimination jurisprudence would disagree with you.

50 years of living on Planet Earth, outside of the Ivory Towers means I'm able to form my own opinions on better evidence than unelected judges.

But what do I know, I have only handled a few hundred cases of it, how about you?

Just think of all the time you've wasted when you could have asked me for the right answer, instead.

I'm not one to see a racist behind ever bush, tree, and blade of grass. I wait for the real thing before I start using the term.

Also, you simply refused to address the cultural aspect that negates the racism in the law. If more of one cultural group is participating in an illegal act, it's not the fault of the law or the legislators that more of that group get convicted of the crime.

You've failed to make the case that crack and coke are the same, because they're not. Thus your argument that the greater preponderance of crack convictions among blacks is racist isn't logically sustainable. Now you're pretending to practice law. Well, you need more practice if you're going to improve your debating skills and your applied logic.
 
50 years of living on Planet Earth, outside of the Ivory Towers means I'm able to form my own opinions on better evidence than unelected judges.

Well I will cover your 50 years with my 47, and raise you being a black man and police officer. :mrgreen:

He's right and you are worng.
 
Want to prove the crack laws are racist?

Present the enabling debates, from all 57 states, that demonstrates the intent of the legislators of all 57 states was the oppression of the black drug addict to preserve the white drug addict.
 
50 years of living on Planet Earth, outside of the Ivory Towers means I'm able to form my own opinions on better evidence than unelected judges.



Just think of all the time you've wasted when you could have asked me for the right answer, instead.

I'm not one to see a racist behind ever bush, tree, and blade of grass. I wait for the real thing before I start using the term.

Also, you simply refused to address the cultural aspect that negates the racism in the law. If more of one cultural group is participating in an illegal act, it's not the fault of the law or the legislators that more of that group get convicted of the crime.

You've failed to make the case that crack and coke are the same, because they're not. Thus your argument that the greater preponderance of crack convictions among blacks is racist isn't logically sustainable. Now you're pretending to practice law. Well, you need more practice if you're going to improve your debating skills and your applied logic.


now that is funny

now tell us why crack is 100 times worse than coke

you do that and I might stop thinking you the fool

you have completely missed the point. American jurisprudence allows someone to establish a presumption of racism if a law or a rule has a disparate impact on a race. That presumption can be rebutted with a legitimate non-discriminatory reason. You seem to miss the entire analysis

tell us why people get a mandatory five for mere possession of minor league amounts of crack but there is no mandatory jail time for crank, or crystal meth or heroin etc
 
Want to prove the crack laws are racist?

Present the enabling debates, from all 57 states, that demonstrates the intent of the legislators of all 57 states was the oppression of the black drug addict to preserve the white drug addict.

57 states=you don't strike me as having the same politics as that clown in the whitehouse
 
Black crime rates were not nearly as high compared to whites back in the days of Jim Crow.
What were the crime rates for crimes committed by Jews in Auschwitz? People who aren't free, ie no freedom of mobility, speech, action can't commit much crime really.
Racism does not explain the fact that more t han 70% of black births are to unwed mothers or that black teenage girls are impregnated at alarming rates by black men often 10-15 years their senior. Racism does not explain why black kids who bust their humps in school are ridiculed by other blacks or blacks who learn proper English are called sell outs.
It does actually. Unfortunately you have to think about it for a moment.
 
What were the crime rates for crimes committed by Jews in Auschwitz? People who aren't free, ie no freedom of mobility, speech, action can't commit much crime really.

It does actually. Unfortunately you have to think about it for a moment.

Yeah I did-for many years. You see I know that racism is at fault. But not the kind you think. Its not "right wing" racism that causes that. Its black racism that is bigoted towards "white values". Its also liberal racism-the racism of low expectations and the enablement of sociol pathologies to continue and expand-that causes these problems
 
It does actually. Unfortunately you have to think about it for a moment.

I fail to see how racism causes this.

Your just looking for an excuse. If more people would pull their heads out of their asses they wouldn't have this problem. Unfortunately, the type of thinking coming from you is an excellent example of why this doesn't happen. Its easier to blame someone else than to realize you are at fault or there might be other factors involved in the problem outside of a paranoia of racism and that is what alot of these lame examples of racism are.

When a black guy is arrested for possession of marijuana when he is in possession of marijuana, thats not racism, thats enforcing the law.

When a black kid doesn't make it into college because his grades suck ass and he never tried to apply himself, thats not racism.

But, if we just blame everything on racism instead of looking at what the real problem is, then somehow society is to blame for the failures of the individual.

In the end, what the real problem is in these two examples is the individual's lack of desire to succeed, and the individual's lack of respect for the law. Personally I think both of those could be fixed by parental involvement during the crucial pre-teen/teenage years. Of course, the excuse is that the poor black single mother has to work two jobs to afford to take care of her family doesn't "have time" to be a parent. Thats an excuse. Im a white male who, after his mother passed when he was 9 years old, had a father who was never around because HE was busy working hard to afford to take care of his three children. I managed just fine. He didn't spend alot of time with us, but its about how you relay the message to your children in the time you do have thats important.

No excuses.
 
I fail to see how racism causes this.

Your just looking for an excuse. If more people would pull their heads out of their asses they wouldn't have this problem. Unfortunately, the type of thinking coming from you is an excellent example of why this doesn't happen. Its easier to blame someone else than to realize you are at fault or there might be other factors involved in the problem outside of a paranoia of racism and that is what alot of these lame examples of racism are.

When a black guy is arrested for possession of marijuana when he is in possession of marijuana, thats not racism, thats enforcing the law.

When a black kid doesn't make it into college because his grades suck ass and he never tried to apply himself, thats not racism.

But, if we just blame everything on racism instead of looking at what the real problem is, then somehow society is to blame for the failures of the individual.

In the end, what the real problem is in these two examples is the individual's lack of desire to succeed, and the individual's lack of respect for the law. Personally I think both of those could be fixed by parental involvement during the crucial pre-teen/teenage years. Of course, the excuse is that the poor black single mother has to work two jobs to afford to take care of her family doesn't "have time" to be a parent. Thats an excuse. Im a white male who, after his mother passed when he was 9 years old, had a father who was never around because HE was busy working hard to afford to take care of his three children. I managed just fine. He didn't spend alot of time with us, but its about how you relay the message to your children in the time you do have thats important.

No excuses.

Excellent point. the crutch of being able to excuse all sorts of failure on racism rather than personal failure that the left has supplied is the worst form of racism
 
You guys seem to tend to think that Black culture is the cause of Black people's astronomical rates of poverty, imprisonment, drug abuse etc.
1) That's not the main factor.

2) I'll admit that "Black culture" isn't perfect. I'm not denying that gangs and anti-intellectualism are a problem (although that's a problem in most races in America) But let me ask you this: what has African-American culture developed in response to? Why is there even something called Black culture? And why is there a group of people who are defined first and foremost as being "Black"?

Blackness itself, at least as the defining characteristic of an individual is an invention of the capitalist system. The presumed inferiority, the assertion of the less than human value of a Black man or woman, etc. arose out of the necessity for cheap labor. Modern racism was invented as a justification for the slave trade, which in turn built modern capitalism. Thus, Blackness itself, as we know it today, is an invention of capitalist racism.

Black culture has developed in response to systematic oppression and racism. From slavery, to Jim Crow, to the destruction of the Black middle class under Reagan to today--at every turn Black culture has had to respond to massive, systematic racism with the limited resources that are inherent to being part of a hated minority who is oppressed politically and economically.

Throughout history when you have any racial or ethnic group to whom the doors of power aren't open--to whom jobs or equal rights aren't available, you'll see that they tend to establish their own leadership structures which will be criminal by the standards of the ruling class. Be it la castra nostra or the bloods and crips. In the early 80's, as the manufacturing jobs that had offered some hope to the Black community were systematically dismantled and shipped overseas people turned to the drug trade out of desperation.

Drug trades lead to violence. But these drugs and violence are the result of horrific conditions that make them seem like the best possible options. You can talk about pulling yourself up by your bootstraps all you want, but the reality is that when gangs and drugs exploded in LA, there weren't jobs available to young men in the Black community. And there aren't many today. Have you seen the Black unemployment rate lately?

Can you acknowledge that if some problems arise in "Black culture" that perhaps, just maybe on some infinitesimal level, racism, historic and current, played some hand in that? You really can't make that connection? If not, I'd like you to offer an alternative explanation. Is it simply that the vile, destructive, Black culture you despise has emerged purely from the vile, destructive, Black hearts of Black men, for no good reason?
 
Yeah I did-for many years. You see I know that racism is at fault. But not the kind you think. Its not "right wing" racism that causes that. Its black racism that is bigoted towards "white values". Its also liberal racism-the racism of low expectations and the enablement of sociol pathologies to continue and expand-that causes these problems

Not aLL liberals think that way. For example I think affirmative action is racist.

My opinion is that other means should and could be used to combat racism, within the boundaries of the constitution.
 
You guys seem to tend to think that Black culture is the cause of Black people's astronomical rates of poverty, imprisonment, drug abuse etc.
1) That's not the main factor.

2) I'll admit that "Black culture" isn't perfect. I'm not denying that gangs and anti-intellectualism are a problem (although that's a problem in most races in America) But let me ask you this: what has African-American culture developed in response to? Why is there even something called Black culture? And why is there a group of people who are defined first and foremost as being "Black"?

Blackness itself, at least as the defining characteristic of an individual is an invention of the capitalist system. The presumed inferiority, the assertion of the less than human value of a Black man or woman, etc. arose out of the necessity for cheap labor. Modern racism was invented as a justification for the slave trade, which in turn built modern capitalism. Thus, Blackness itself, as we know it today, is an invention of capitalist racism.

Black culture has developed in response to systematic oppression and racism. From slavery, to Jim Crow, to the destruction of the Black middle class under Reagan to today--at every turn Black culture has had to respond to massive, systematic racism with the limited resources that are inherent to being part of a hated minority who is oppressed politically and economically.

Throughout history when you have any racial or ethnic group to whom the doors of power aren't open--to whom jobs or equal rights aren't available, you'll see that they tend to establish their own leadership structures which will be criminal by the standards of the ruling class. Be it la castra nostra or the bloods and crips. In the early 80's, as the manufacturing jobs that had offered some hope to the Black community were systematically dismantled and shipped overseas people turned to the drug trade out of desperation.

Drug trades lead to violence. But these drugs and violence are the result of horrific conditions that make them seem like the best possible options. You can talk about pulling yourself up by your bootstraps all you want, but the reality is that when gangs and drugs exploded in LA, there weren't jobs available to young men in the Black community. And there aren't many today. Have you seen the Black unemployment rate lately?

Can you acknowledge that if some problems arise in "Black culture" that perhaps, just maybe on some infinitesimal level, racism, historic and current, played some hand in that? You really can't make that connection? If not, I'd like you to offer an alternative explanation. Is it simply that the vile, destructive, Black culture you despise has emerged purely from the vile, destructive, Black hearts of Black men, for no good reason?

Ummm.... Can you back up anything or are you just going to call things racist without explaining what makes them racist?


What you are basically saying is, because its happening to blacks at higher rates than whites, it MUST be caused by racism.

I don't buy it.
 
The US might be the least racist country and we're getting better all the time.
 
Ummm.... Can you back up anything or are you just going to call things racist without explaining what makes them racist?


What you are basically saying is, because its happening to blacks at higher rates than whites, it MUST be caused by racism.

I don't buy it.

Ummmmmmmmm... Can you dispute something? Or offer an alternative explanation as I requested? You know, debate politics?
 
Can you acknowledge that if some problems arise in "Black culture" that perhaps, just maybe on some infinitesimal level, racism, historic and current, played some hand in that?

I don't blame problems on "Black culture", but of course the past has something to do with the present. Anybody who thinks otherwise isn't being realistic.
That being said, moving forward and taking advantage of the positive changes for blacks since abolition, and especially the civil rights movement, is a responsibility that must be assumed by those who wanted an improvemnt in their freedoms, circumstances, and rights. Legislation can create all the access and rights in the world, but those who have won those rights must claim them and take on the responsibility for improving their own lives. Blaming others for one's plight only works for a limited time.
 
Ummmmmmmmm... Can you dispute something? Or offer an alternative explanation as I requested? You know, debate politics?

I think the duty is on you to prove that racism is to explain for the problems facing blacks today. I don't buy the claim that racism (of the kind you talk about) causes the disgusting rate of illegitimacy among blacks given that such rates were about the same as whites back in the days before the civil rights act when Jim Crow ruled the south and the klan had open supporters in our congress and senate
 
I think the duty is on you to prove that racism is to explain for the problems facing blacks today. I don't buy the claim that racism (of the kind you talk about) causes the disgusting rate of illegitimacy among blacks given that such rates were about the same as whites back in the days before the civil rights act when Jim Crow ruled the south and the klan had open supporters in our congress and senate
Who do we point at then?

Education? I would, and possibly state government.
 
Ummmmmmmmm... Can you dispute something? Or offer an alternative explanation as I requested? You know, debate politics?


I can dispute something you haven't provided facts for. You say (insert problem here) was caused by racism. Yet provide no proof that racism is the cause and not some other factor.

Its the equivalent of me countering saying its caused by a squirrel. With no facts as to how the squirrel caused the problem.
 
Who do we point at then?

Education? I would, and possibly state government.

What about pointing at parents who don't support their children's educations by reading to their children, having books around the house, investing in computers and software, or being involved in the local school?
 
I can dispute something you haven't provided facts for. You say (insert problem here) was caused by racism. Yet provide no proof that racism is the cause and not some other factor.

Its the equivalent of me countering saying its caused by a squirrel. With no facts as to how the squirrel caused the problem.

Actually, I think that squirrels may be involved somehow. They're all little psychos with a deathwish.
 
Race is getting more and more difficult to discuss this doesent mean there is less racism out there though.
 
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