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The Stimulus failed, including that $282 Billion in tax cuts

The Stimulus failed, including that $282 Billion in tax cuts

  • Yes, the stimulus failed, including its huge amount of tax cuts

    Votes: 11 42.3%

  • No, it didn't fail and the tax cuts helped

    Votes: 15 57.7%
  • Total voters
    26
I say we wait about 5 years.

The economic failure in 2008 occurred in less than a year, recovery always takes much longer.
 
The only important issue is that our GDP will remain the strongest on the global front when the dust settles. :mrgreen:
 
jallman said:
The only important issue is that our GDP will remain the strongest on the global front when the dust settles. :mrgreen:
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Can you elaborate on that a bit please. Are you saying that the stimulus helped with GDP, and was positive, or simply that our economy will recover and be stronger than any other, or something else entirely?
 
Redress said:
Can you elaborate on that a bit please. Are you saying that the stimulus helped with GDP, and was positive, or simply that our economy will recover and be stronger than any other, or something else entirely?
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He's trying to be cute. See this thread

His post is completely irrelevant to this thread.
 
Redress said:
Can you elaborate on that a bit please. Are you saying that the stimulus helped with GDP, and was positive, or simply that our economy will recover and be stronger than any other, or something else entirely?
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No, actually, I am saying that if we remain number one in GDP and don't fall behind in economic output and quality of life, I'll consider it a success.
 
jallman said:
No, actually, I am saying that if we remain number one in GDP and don't fall behind in economic output and quality of life, I'll consider it a success.
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The bold red is a redundancy. Economic output and GDP are the same measure :prof

Of course, you already knew that and it is irrelevant :lamo
 
Goldenboy219 said:
The bold red is a redundancy. Economic output and GDP are the same measure :prof

Of course, you already knew that and it is irrelevant :lamo
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OK, do you have anything else you need to say?
 
jallman said:
OK, do you have anything else you need to say?
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I did not need to say anything. Just pointing out your errors in regards to the subject matter. :2wave:

The stimulus helped (although a larger stimulus would have been optimal yet impossible given the politics displayed by the party of no).
 
I suppose it depends on how one defines "success".
 
Don't do nuance much, do you?

Of your two extremist choices, I choose neither, as neither even begin to address the complexity of the situation. But it does fit on a bumpersticker which is enough for the low information crowd, I guess.

:twocents:
 
In order to say something is a "success" or "failure" you need to define what success is. Then, of course, you also need to ask the question: Regardless of whether success was acheived was it worth it?
 
Cilogy said:
I say we wait about 5 years.

The economic failure in 2008 occurred in less than a year, recovery always takes much longer.
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False, if that were the case there would be no such thing as a bull market. TARP I and TARP II were miserable failures as predicted.
 
stekim said:
In order to say something is a "success" or "failure" you need to define what success is. Then, of course, you also need to ask the question: Regardless of whether success was acheived was it worth it?
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Fair enough. Success would be at minimum a stable market, this one is bouncing all over the place. Rampant success would be a smaller bull market with fewer bubbles and consistent daily gains, probably not gonna happen. Failure would be a "jobless recovery" or at worst a rudderless economy bouncing all over the place.....check on both counts.
 
jallman said:
No, actually, I am saying that if we remain number one in GDP and don't fall behind in economic output and quality of life, I'll consider it a success.
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GDP is not representative of either economic output or quality of life IMO. Look at Greece and Argentina. I know that you're not relating them - I'm just wondering what GDP is representative of as far as the economy. I think while in some cases it is representative of how well people in that society live but not today. There are too many countries with what would seem like great GDPs who are just drowning in debt and have unemployment which would make American unemployment rates seem like a joke in comparison. I'll admit my knowledge of just how the economy works in most cases is inept but I do not think GDP is really that great of an indicator for quality of life.
 
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Hatuey said:
GDP is not representative of either economic output or quality of life IMO. Look at Greece and Argentina. I know that you're not relating them - I'm just wondering what GDP is representative of as far as the economy. I think while in some cases it is representative of how well people in that society live but not today. There are too many countries with what would seem like great GDPs who are just drowning in debt and have unemployment which would make American unemployment rates seem like a joke in comparison. I'll admit my knowledge of just how the economy works in most cases is inept but I do not think GDP is really that great of an indicator for quality of life.
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I'd say it is when you combine the stat with unemployment rate and the rate of taxation. Of course, that's all couched in the context of economy.
 
Goldenboy219 said:
I did not need to say anything. Just pointing out your errors in regards to the subject matter. :2wave:
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OK, well I'm glad you feel accomplished. Whatever it takes to get you through it, pal.
 
You have to define the goal of the stimulus in order to determine whether or not it failed.
 
LaMidRighter said:
Fair enough. Success would be at minimum a stable market, this one is bouncing all over the place. Rampant success would be a smaller bull market with fewer bubbles and consistent daily gains, probably not gonna happen. Failure would be a "jobless recovery" or at worst a rudderless economy bouncing all over the place.....check on both counts.
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Bouncing all over the place? Please demonstrate such volatility, as i have seen a bull market of unprecedented parallel.

What has been the maximum pullback since the March lows of 2009? Keep in mind i trade volatility. A wall of liquidity has ushered such a run.
 
1984 said:
You have to define the goal of the stimulus in order to determine whether or not it failed.
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Actually the whole point of this thread was to put the "Stimulus failed, therefore more tax cuts" crowd between a rock and hard place. More then a few users here offered tax cuts as an alternative to the stimulus without realizing that the stimulus had a large portion as tax cuts.
 
obvious Child said:
Actually the whole point of this thread was to put the "Stimulus failed, therefore more tax cuts" crowd between a rock and hard place. More then a few users here offered tax cuts as an alternative to the stimulus without realizing that the stimulus had a large portion as tax cuts.
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Perhaps they think there wasn't enough tax cuts. I don't really know, but if you want others to answer your question you have to define the goal of the stimulus. I think it was a failure because the Obama administration said it would keep unemployment below a certain level and it failed to accomplish this.
 
I think the stimulus was a daunting success and a clear indication that America is back. With the 35 million jobs that were created and reducing unemployment to unheard of lows, we have a strong and robust foundation championed by this administration that will be studied and emulated for years to come.
 
I believe the stimulus was a great success, but I'm not sure the tax cuts did any good. I believe the Bush administration proved that cutting taxes doesn't mean a growing economy. If the "cut taxes to grow the economy" BS worked, we wouldn't be in this mess. I believe we should be more concerned as to why we needed a stimulus in the first place.
 
1984 said:
Perhaps they think there wasn't enough tax cuts. I don't really know, but if you want others to answer your question you have to define the goal of the stimulus.
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Well, from what I read, they call the entire thing a failure. And you'll learn that often my polls are designed to force people to realize their positions are inherently contradictory.
 
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