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Affirmative Action

Is affirmative action necessary in today's society?

  • Yes, it bridges the disparity between minority and non-minority students and workers

    Votes: 5 8.5%

  • Yes, it is important for the social welfare and diversity of the country

    Votes: 4 6.8%

  • No, it encourages individuals to identify themselves as "disadvantaged"

    Votes: 25 42.4%

  • No, it provides a basis for "reverse-discrimination"

    Votes: 34 57.6%

  • No, it is devalues the accomplishments of both those who it benefits and those it does not

    Votes: 31 52.5%

  • It is necessary for gender, but not race

    Votes: 2 3.4%

  • It is necessary for race, but not gender

    Votes: 1 1.7%

  • Other, please specify

    Votes: 9 15.3%
  • Total voters
    59
TurtleDude said:
How so? I saw it many a time when I was in college. Rich black kids goofing off because they knew they could get into top grad schools with much lower GPAs then us white boys. The black guys who made top grades were respected by everyone except the goof offs who called them "uncle tom's or "acting white"
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It was not that. It was the over the top generalization that any minority with a 3.0 GPA is a slacker. Maybe the people YOU saw were. I went to a community college. So not all black or hell any minority with a GPA of 3.0 is slacking.

Not everyone can be above average intelligence. We are all different.
 
61 Electric Bron-Yr-Aur said:
FYP to accomodate my future alma mater.
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Harvard being much bigger has a few more dullards:mrgreen:

Good luck but it depends on what sort of education you want. Harvard is a top school. But if you want a smaller school (and can get in) Yale's the best with places like Cornell and Chicago, and Duke very close. Yale and Chicago tend to turn out Law Professors, while Columbia and Cornell aren't as "academic" but more practical. G'town, not surprisingly is strong in government and administrative issues.
 
Blackdog said:
It was not that. It was the over the top generalization that any minority with a 3.0 GPA is a slacker. Maybe the people YOU saw were. I went to a community college. So not all black or hell any minority with a GPA of 3.0 is slacking.

Not everyone can be above average intelligence. We are all different.
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True-someone could work their butt off and a 3.0 is their best effort. In all fairness, if you didn't cut class at yale and did the assigned readings you were gonna get at least a B+

But what I saw were lots of well off black kids not making the effort we white boys did because they didn't have to. while there are those students who really love learning and studying, I think it is fair to say most students see grinding as a means to an end-honors, good job, prestigious grad school

Its like when I was a teaching pro in squash. I did wind sprints all the time but not because I wanted to but because my students or the other pros I played did too. If the squash God had told me I could beat Mark Talbott 4 out of 5 times without training, I never would have done that stuff like running up and down the stairs of the stadium of the college I coached at 4X a week for 4 years
 
TurtleDude said:
Harvard being much bigger has a few more dullards:mrgreen:

Good luck but it depends on what sort of education you want. Harvard is a top school. But if you want a smaller school (and can get in) Yale's the best with places like Cornell and Chicago, and Duke very close. Yale and Chicago tend to turn out Law Professors, while Columbia and Cornell aren't as "academic" but more practical. G'town, not surprisingly is strong in government and administrative issues.
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Those are all incredibly luxe institutions, but Harvard is Harvard.
My cupidity for knowledge is second to none. It's pretty telling when your teachers are replete with jealousy because your vocabulary is so insuperably sublime.
 
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61 Electric Bron-Yr-Aur said:
Those are all incredibly luxe institutions, but Harvard is Harvard.
My cupidity for knowledge is second to none. It's pretty telling when your teachers are replete with jealousy because your vocabulary is so insuperably sublime.
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Go for it, you seem like you have the stuff to go head to head with Arthur Miller or Alan Doucheawitz:mrgreen:
 
61 Electric Bron-Yr-Aur said:
Enmity held over from O.J.?
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nah not at all. He's got a big Ego. So does Miller. Ever see the Paper Chase

You can stand up and call one of them a "son of a bitch"

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wOUMd3bMRI"]YouTube- The Paper Chase (1973) - SON OF A BITCH KINGSFIELD[/nomedia]
 
TurtleDude said:
True-someone could work their butt off and a 3.0 is their best effort. In all fairness, if you didn't cut class at yale and did the assigned readings you were gonna get at least a B+

But what I saw were lots of well off black kids not making the effort we white boys did because they didn't have to. while there are those students who really love learning and studying, I think it is fair to say most students see grinding as a means to an end-honors, good job, prestigious grad schools
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I had a lot of friends who worked very hard in school. They regularly earned A's or A-'s. I could work very little and earn B+'s. I saw no point to being a grind and earning an A when I could have a good time and earn a B+.

25 years later, we all earn about the same amount. But I like my job a lot more than they like theirs.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
I had a lot of friends who worked very hard in school. They regularly earned A's or A-'s. I could work very little and earn B+'s. I saw no point to being a grind and earning an A when I could have a good time and earn a B+.

25 years later, we all earn about the same amount. But I like my job a lot more than they like theirs.
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I saw the same thing in Law school. I got the dream job I wanted and was not Order of the Coif. Plus I was coaching a collegiate sport while attending law school. It made my years there alot more enjoyable -while I was traveling to Dartmouth or Princeton with the team, a couple of the geeks were checking citations on some professor's arcane law review article involving some provision of the tax code they haven't seen for 25 years.
 
Blackdog said:
No. People would bitch and gripe about people unqualified to do the job. :roll:



No one resents or hates people simply based on them being poor. This is a really lame argument and completely and utterly false.

Please feel free to point out who has said this?
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Really? Then why are people always bitching about people on welfare? I call B.S.
 
Kelzie said:
First hand? No. My best friend teaches middle school in the inner city though. Even given her tendency to exaggerate, it's not that bad. Certainly not to the degree that it would prevent a kid from getting a decent grade if they tried hard enough.

Impossible is a strong word and indicates a serious inability to look at a situation objectively. Oh look, I can subtly insult you too. :2wave:
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Sorry but in a lot of places? Inner city kids go to sleep with no food, wake up with no food and repeat this over and over again. Then people expect them to somehow "Rise Up" out of that. Kinda hard to rise up and get good grades when the highlight of your day is a free lunch and not getting shot by a stray bullet.:(
 
TurtleDude said:
How so? I saw it many a time when I was in college. Rich black kids goofing off because they knew they could get into top grad schools with much lower GPAs then us white boys. The black guys who made top grades were respected by everyone except the goof offs who called them "uncle tom's or "acting white"
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See. There is something just with This post that does not sit well with me. I am sure you are not a racist and a lovely person but honestly: were ya sitting around hawking the rich black kids or something?? :confused:
 
Kali said:
Sorry but in a lot of places? Inner city kids go to sleep with no food, wake up with no food and repeat this over and over again. Then people expect them to somehow "Rise Up" out of that. Kinda hard to rise up and get good grades when the highlight of your day is a free lunch and not getting shot by a stray bullet.:(
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excellent point
if the essential elements of the hierarchy of needs are not being met, why should we expect the students (or their parents) to be focused on educational attainment instead
 
Kali said:
Really? Then why are people always bitching about people on welfare? I call B.S.
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This is the most ridicules non answer I have ever seen. It has nothing to do with what I said. I call B.S.
 
justabubba said:
excellent point
if the essential elements of the hierarchy of needs are not being met, why should we expect the students (or their parents) to be focused on educational attainment instead
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Absolutely. They should focus on crack instead. I mean that is the main reason people are going hungry, specifically children.

Keep making excuses.
 
Kali said:
Sorry but in a lot of places? Inner city kids go to sleep with no food, wake up with no food and repeat this over and over again. Then people expect them to somehow "Rise Up" out of that. Kinda hard to rise up and get good grades when the highlight of your day is a free lunch and not getting shot by a stray bullet.:(
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Well if the parents would get off the crack pipe this problem would not be nearly as big in the inner city.
 
Blackdog said:
Absolutely. They should focus on crack instead. I mean that is the main reason people are going hungry, specifically children.

Keep making excuses.
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no excuse there

an explanation

if a kid has not been adequately fed, or arrives at school without enough sleep, or is concerned about his/her family's physical well being, it is not surprising the student's focus would be on those needs instead of school work

not a desirable circumstance, but one which explains the disparity of achievement

but (supposedly) being from the minority community and thus having what you believe to be a superior insight into the black culture, explain what about my statement is wrong
 
Kali said:
Sorry but in a lot of places? Inner city kids go to sleep with no food, wake up with no food and repeat this over and over again. Then people expect them to somehow "Rise Up" out of that. Kinda hard to rise up and get good grades when the highlight of your day is a free lunch and not getting shot by a stray bullet.:(
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justabubba said:
excellent point
if the essential elements of the hierarchy of needs are not being met, why should we expect the students (or their parents) to be focused on educational attainment instead
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And again, this has nothing to do with race, gender, or AA.
 
rivrrat said:
And again, this has nothing to do with race, gender, or AA.
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Except for the fact that black kids are much more likely to grow up poor and in dysfunctional crime-ridden communities than black kids, per capita.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
Except for the fact that black kids are much more likely to grow up poor and in dysfunctional crime-ridden communities than black kids, per capita.
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but that is not due to race, it is socio-economic factors, and that is what should be addressed by AA not their race.
 
spud_meister said:
but that is not due to race, it is socio-economic factors, and that is what should be addressed by AA not their race.
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I think that's arguable. There are a lot of policies by the U.S. Govt. that contributed to black poverty.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
I think that's arguable. There are a lot of policies by the U.S. Govt. that contributed to black poverty.
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yet there are whites that do grow up in similar conditions, and they don't receive any special treatment, it seems that by trying to enforce equality, the US government is perpetuating inequality, and any policies that do this should go, including race based AA
 
Kali said:
Sorry but in a lot of places? Inner city kids go to sleep with no food, wake up with no food and repeat this over and over again. Then people expect them to somehow "Rise Up" out of that. Kinda hard to rise up and get good grades when the highlight of your day is a free lunch and not getting shot by a stray bullet.:(
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BS. Do you need me to find the correlation between poverty and obesity? Poor kids might have many problems, getting proper nutrition among them, but being hungry doesn't appear to be included.
 
justabubba said:
no excuse there

an explanation

if a kid has not been adequately fed, or arrives at school without enough sleep, or is concerned about his/her family's physical well being, it is not surprising the student's focus would be on those needs instead of school work

not a desirable circumstance, but one which explains the disparity of achievement
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This is applicable to only a few. The overall cause is not racism or the failure of the system. It is the absolute and utter failure of the black family structure. This is something we can fix, but we have to do it ourselves and soon.

"Both explanations are true. But black men aren't born incarcerated, crime-prone dropouts. What principally renders them vulnerable to such a plight is the absence of fathers and their stabilizing influence.

Fatherless boys (as a general rule) become ineligible to be husbands -- though no less likely to become fathers -- and their children fall into the patterns that render them ineligible to be husbands.

The absence of fathers means, as well, that girls lack both a pattern against which to measure the boys who pursue them and an example of sacrificial love between a man and a woman. As the ministers were at pains to say last week, it isn't the incompetence of mothers that is at issue but the absence of half of the adult support needed for families to be most effective." - William Raspberry - Why Our Black Families Are Failing - washingtonpost.com

"Read through the megazillion words on class, income mobility, and poverty in the recent New York Times series “Class Matters” and you still won’t grasp two of the most basic truths on the subject: 1. entrenched, multigenerational poverty is largely black; and 2. it is intricately intertwined with the collapse of the nuclear family in the inner city." - The Black Family: 40 Years of Lies by Kay S. Hymowitz, City Journal Summer 2005

How can a problem be fixed when every time it is mentioned it is somehow racist?

justabubba said:
but (supposedly) being from the minority community and thus having what you believe to be a superior insight into the black culture, explain what about my statement is wrong
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Exemplifying gangsta's as hero's and the blatant excuse giving for failure is not helping. We don't need excuses, we need people to accept responsibility for their own actions.
 
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