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Is protesting at funerals 'free speech'?

Is protesting at funerals 'Free Speech'?


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Depends on what you mean by "at" funerals. If they are disrupting the services, then it is not free speech; if they are not interfering with the procession, then it is free speech.
 
Yes it is. They are on public property, they have the right to assemble, associate, and protest.
 
Absolutely. I've said it before and I'll say it again - to truly be a proponent of free speech, you have to defend that which you don't believe just as loudly as that which you do.

To claim First Amendment rights only on your own beliefs is almost as hypocritical as you can get.
 
If they are on public property and don't interfere with the private proceedings in any way, then it is free speech. If, however, they are interrupting the service through loud shouting, etc., though, they may be violating local noise ordinances and should be charged/fined/held civilly liable.
 
Absolutely. I've said it before and I'll say it again - to truly be a proponent of free speech, you have to defend that which you don't believe just as loudly as that which you do.

To claim First Amendment rights only on your own beliefs is almost as hypocritical as you can get.

What if they're disrupting the services? Do I have the right to scream in your ear, or to shout down a lawful gathering?
 
As much as I'd like to punch Fred Phelps in the face, as lon as they aren't disrupting the service than it is.
 
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It's pretty much equal to calling a person's mom a bitch.
 
What if they're disrupting the services? Do I have the right to scream in your ear, or to shout down a lawful gathering?

No. Most jurisdictions have noise ordinances that prohibit such activities.
 
Gander said:
What if they're disrupting the services? Do I have the right to scream in your ear, or to shout down a lawful gathering?

Catz mentioned noise ordinances, and in some cases getting that close would be a trespass.

In addition, when you're in public your rights becomes less enforceable than if you were at home. While I may not have a right to call you any name I damn well please under your own roof, you bet your ass I can call you pretty much anything my creative mind can muster under God's yellow sun.

I've cursed and cursed people out in front of children, and if they don't like it they can take a walk.

I would say that if they were within, say, 50 feet of the edge of the service they could be pushed back as they may disrupt. However, your rights don't begin when they fail to reach earshot.
 
I personally think that the founding fathers lived in a society that had a better grasp on what is sacred. I don't think they would have ever imagined anyone using a funeral as a platform for even a respectful protest, let alone one laden with irreverent and offensive types of speech.

In short, I believe a funeral is an inappropriate venue for 'free speech', and protesting at funerals should not be tolerated.
 
It shouldn't be considered free speech if it can be seen or heard by any of the funeral attendees. A funeral should be a special case because it is essentially a captive audience. In most cases involving freedom of speech, it is quite easy for the person who disagrees with what is being said to simply walk away or ignore what is being said. That is not the case at a funeral. A funeral is specifically for the person's loved ones to say goodbye and see that person for the last time.
 
It shouldn't be considered free speech if it can be seen or heard by any of the funeral attendees. A funeral should be a special case because it is essentially a captive audience. In most cases involving freedom of speech, it is quite easy for the person who disagrees with what is being said to simply walk away or ignore what is being said. That is not the case at a funeral. A funeral is specifically for the person's loved ones to say goodbye and see that person for the last time.

Then hold it at a private cemetery where trespass laws can be enforced.

Outside your four walls, you have absolutely no right to be protected from that you wish not to hear. By doing that, you inhibit another's rights, and I'm not down with that.
 
I'm sure you've heard the story:

FOXNews.com - Father of Dead Marine Wages Court Battle Against Funeral Protests

What do you think? Is protesting at funerals free speech that should be protected by the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution?

Yes it is free speech. That said the cemetery and funeral home are free to kick who ever they want off their property so protesters are free to protest on the side walk or across the street on a sidewalk. I would rather that the US not adopt Eurotrash anti-free speech laws under the guise of thought control laws like hate speech laws.
 
Yes, it's free speech and needs to be protected.

Now, can someone explain to me why the Phelps family is still alive? Oh, that's right, Jane Fonda is also still among the living.
 
Then hold it at a private cemetery where trespass laws can be enforced.

Outside your four walls, you have absolutely no right to be protected from that you wish not to hear. By doing that, you inhibit another's rights, and I'm not down with that.

Most people do not get to choose their own burial site. In fact, the family only has a choice of those plots that are open, if they get a choice at all, whatever location they are in, whether the cemetery is public or private. It is not right for anyone to have to have their grieving interrupted because they happened to be only able to get a plot that is near the edge of the cemetery. A person should not be able to be harassed simply because they can't afford to grieve in a more private setting.
 
Most people do not get to choose their own burial site. In fact, the family only has a choice of those plots that are open, if they get a choice at all, whatever location they are in, whether the cemetery is public or private. It is not right for anyone to have to have their grieving interrupted because they happened to be only able to get a plot that is near the edge of the cemetery. A person should not be able to be harassed simply because they can't afford to grieve in a more private setting.

Sometimes, being an American is hard.
 
Sometimes, being an American is hard.

Being a decent human being, and expecting others to be as well, is not. I do not agree with most policies that would intrude on someone's free speech. But these protesters are intruding on a family's religious rite, one that is heavily charged with negative emotions. At the very least, the protesters can easily be seen by a reasonable person to be trying to pick a fight.
 
religious rite

Error. Does not compute.

In many federal buildings, especially courts, you are not allowed to wear hats. Go into one with a burqa or yarmulke and see what happens.

Separation of church and state, dear.

On top of that, I don't know anything about cemeteries being a religious observence. Atheists die and have loved ones too.
 
Yes it is. They are on public property, they have the right to assemble, associate, and protest.
Kind of, this one's sketchy. It goes to harassment codes and fighting words doctrine. Because the nature of the words are inflamatory, and the situation is one that a heightened emotional state is present, violence and charges technically would defer to the Phelps clan and they could be arrested for instigating a fight, disturbing the peace, or if enough people are involved, inciting a riot.

I'll say this, I am level headed enough, but if some piece of **** did this at any relative's funeral I would kick his ass unmercifully and unceasingly until others could pull me off. This is the idea behind "fighting words doctrine" if your speech could incite the average normative reasonable person to violence then it is not protected to a level that normal discourse would be.
 
It shouldn't be considered free speech if it can be seen or heard by any of the funeral attendees. A funeral should be a special case because it is essentially a captive audience. In most cases involving freedom of speech, it is quite easy for the person who disagrees with what is being said to simply walk away or ignore what is being said. That is not the case at a funeral. A funeral is specifically for the person's loved ones to say goodbye and see that person for the last time.

A few years ago, the son of a friend of mine was killed in Iraq. Phelps and his sick bastard clan were here, "protesting" at the visitation, which was held at the high school here (Leavenworth).

Spread the Word: Iraq-Nam: David M. Unger laid to rest

The Patriot Guard was on site to ensure that the family didn't have to hear Phelps' sickening ranting that was going on across the street. I would have loved to have been able to leave the HS property and beat the living hell out of any one of them. If not fearful I would be sued for 'assaulting' these assholes.. I would have.

I support freedom of speech, but honestly.. what kind of sick bastards do this sort of thing. I'm glad there are people out there like the Patriot Guard that soften the blow of ignorant and hated filled assholes like the Phelps'.
 
Error. Does not compute.

In many federal buildings, especially courts, you are not allowed to wear hats. Go into one with a burqa or yarmulke and see what happens.

Separation of church and state, dear.

On top of that, I don't know anything about cemeteries being a religious observence. Atheists die and have loved ones too.

Rite, as in a ceremony. And yes, atheists and others who are not part of a religion bury their dead, but they are still participating in a "rite" or ceremony, even if it isn't being led by a religious leader, when they have an actual funeral for their loved one. In the particular case that is currently the main cause of this debate, the family was participating in religious led funeral, therefore it was a religious rite.

I have no idea what this would have to do with separation of church and state. They are not advocating that their religious observance had to be shared by everyone, only that it not be interrupted by a senseless, hurtful protest. Protesting at anyone's funeral is not right, and should not be protected as freedom of speech. If someone wants to protest a funeral, they should do so in a manner that does not actually disrupt the funeral at all.
 
Being a decent human being, and expecting others to be as well, is not. I do not agree with most policies that would intrude on someone's free speech. But these protesters are intruding on a family's religious rite, one that is heavily charged with negative emotions. At the very least, the protesters can easily be seen by a reasonable person to be trying to pick a fight.

Free speech is free speech. Within the limits I described above, government should not be constraining it, no matter how challenging that is for us as individuals.

I actually see this as a way of softening us up to more easily accept hate speech legislation in the future, just like Canada and the UK have done. After all, no one can condone Phelps's tactics. He's universally despised. Make him the scapegoat, and you get the support of most of the sheep who don't think very hard.
 
A few years ago, the son of a friend of mine was killed in Iraq. Phelps and his sick bastard clan were here, "protesting" at the visitation, which was held at the high school here (Leavenworth).

Spread the Word: Iraq-Nam: David M. Unger laid to rest

The Patriot Guard was on site to ensure that the family didn't have to hear Phelps' sickening ranting that was going on across the street. I would have loved to have been able to leave the HS property and beat the living hell out of any one of them. If not fearful I would be sued for 'assaulting' these assholes.. I would have.

I support freedom of speech, but honestly.. what kind of sick bastards do this sort of thing. I'm glad there are people out there like the Patriot Guard that soften the blow of ignorant and hated filled assholes like the Phelps'.

I totally support the Patriot Guard and any organizations like them. When I first heard about them, I cried, because it was so touching that people would donate their time to protect people trying to grieve like that.

But to me, what the Phelps' are doing is trying to pick fights and get publicity, not to mention money from lawsuits when they actually are able to get someone to attack them. There is no legitimate purpose for them to be protesting anybody's funeral.
 
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