Capital Punishment - Justified in some cases?

Cilogy said:

The biggest viewpoint behind the "death penalty" is the idea that life after death is worse than life in jail. Its a religious thing.

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Erm, no, that is not even remotely the biggest viewpoint behind it. I have no idea where you got that notion.
It doesn't even make sense in the first place, since if they're going to hell, they would do so whether they're killed or die naturally, so the death penalty doesn't even come into it.

This is another problem with that extremely conservative view of this issue. Take my hometown of Texas :doh. They claim to be "pro-life" when they end up killing criminals. Its hypocrisy in its highest form.

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Your hometown of Texas?

Anyways, it's not hypocrisy at all. Killing innocent fetuses, if you think they are people, is different than killing convicted murderers. "Pro-life" is just a stupid label (as is "pro-choice").

We become just as bad as those criminals when we do this.

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No, we don't. Just as we don't become as bad as kidnappers for forcing criminals to go to jail.

Dav said:

Erm, no, that is not even remotely the biggest viewpoint behind it. I have no idea where you got that notion.
It doesn't even make sense in the first place, since if they're going to hell, they would do so whether they're killed or die naturally, so the death penalty doesn't even come into it.

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That's where I got that notion.

This idea that these criminals are for sure going to hell is the problem. Like I said, until we have proof that death is a better punishment, the punishment we give to criminals now in jail is the best form. We don't know what happens after death, so we might as well make criminals suffer in jail as long as possible before they die naturally.

I don't know about you, but I want criminals to suffer. I want them to suffer under our control where we can regulate their punishment to our own specifications.

If you disagree then please tell me, what the biggest viewpoint behind it actually is.

Your hometown of Texas?

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Yeah :rofl I put my actual hometown then deleted it, and then I forget to change "hometown."

Shoot me. (pun intended)

No, we don't. Just as we don't become as bad as kidnappers for forcing criminals to go to jail.

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We don't become kidnappers when jailing kidnappers. That's why we have a system of order as far as crime is concerned. We give fair trials with a jury of peers and sentence a criminal if he is found guilty. That's not kidnapping, that's punishment for a wrongdoing in an organized society.

Execution/the death penalty is a last resort, its a weak-ass option when people become more focused on causing pain/suffering than upholding actual justice. Its a morally hypocritical view.

Cilogy said:

That's where I got that notion.

This idea that these criminals are for sure going to hell is the problem. Like I said, until we have proof that death is a better punishment, the punishment we give to criminals now in jail is the best form. We don't know what happens after death, so we might as well make criminals suffer in jail as long as possible before they die naturally.

I don't know about you, but I want criminals to suffer. I want them to suffer under our control where we can regulate their punishment to our own specifications.

If you disagree then please tell me, what the biggest viewpoint behind it actually is.

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Okay, I see what you're saying now. That we think it is punishment, but we can't know that until we know what comes after death. Thanks for clarifying. For the record, I don't believe in hell but still support the death penalty in extreme cases.

We don't become kidnappers when jailing kidnappers. That's why we have a system of order as far as crime is concerned. We give fair trials with a jury of peers and sentence a criminal if he is found guilty. That's not kidnapping, that's punishment for a wrongdoing in an organized society.

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But just replace "kidnapping" for "murdering" and "kidnappers" for "murderers", and you have the same scenario, just more extreme.

Execution/the death penalty is a last resort, its a weak-ass option when people become more focused on causing pain/suffering than upholding actual justice. Its a morally hypocritical view.

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It's not about causing pain/suffering, in fact lethal injection is relatively painless. It's about disincentives, which is what penalties are all about in the first place; plus not keeping murderers alive on taxpayers' dimes; plus people seeing certain crimes as depriving someone of their right to live.

Dav said:

Okay, I see what you're saying now. That we think it is punishment, but we can't know that until we know what comes after death. Thanks for clarifying. For the record, I don't believe in hell but still support the death penalty in extreme cases.

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Okay, but why? From what we actually know, the criminal will suffer only a little bit when being injected/executed compared to however many years he faces in jail.

But just replace "kidnapping" for "murdering" and "kidnappers" for "murderers", and you have the same scenario, just more extreme.

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I don't think I understand what you're saying here. Of course I would give a stronger punishment to murderers, but not death.

It's not about causing pain/suffering, in fact lethal injection is relatively painless. It's about disincentives, which is what penalties are all about in the first place; plus not keeping murderers alive on taxpayers' dimes; plus people seeing certain crimes as depriving someone of their right to live.

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I see what you mean about disincentives. I would like to find the article, and I'm sure anyone can. Its one that I came across last year, which said that we spend more money on executions than on maintaining prisoners in jails. I was surprised by this, because I thought about it inversely. However, if that's true, then it makes more sense to keep them in jail.

Cilogy said:

The biggest viewpoint behind the "death penalty" is the idea that life after death is worse than life in jail. Its a religious thing.

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I have never heard a single person say that, ever.

The reason some people who are pro-life can support the death penalty is because they view it as taking an innocent life as opposed to that of someone who has proved himself unworthy of living due to the life(lives) he has taken.

lizzie said:

I have never heard a single person say that, ever.

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Okay, I have.

The reason some people who are pro-life can support the death penalty is because they view it as taking an innocent life as opposed to that of someone who has proved himself unworthy of living due to the life(lives) he has taken.

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Yeah but to me and many others, you can't really prove yourself unworthy of living, that makes no sense. You can prove that you are immoral and a murderer and worthy of being punished though.

Cilogy said:

Yeah but to me and many others, you can't really prove yourself unworthy of living, that makes no sense. You can prove that you are immoral and a murderer and worthy of being punished though.

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Sure it makes sense if you believe in things like karma, the law of cause and effect, an eye for an eye, and other grounds that people commonly use for making judgements. I assure you that if someone tried to kill me or someone I cared about, and I was in the position to act on that threat, they would be judged guilty and put to death on the spot.

lizzie said:

Sure it makes sense if you believe in things like karma, the law of cause and effect, an eye for an eye, and other grounds that people commonly use for making judgements. I assure you that if someone tried to kill me or someone I cared about, and I was in the position to act on that threat, they would be judged guilty and put to death on the spot.

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(serious question) Would you like me to explain more or would you like to read my response to Dav above?

Neither will be necessary. I already know where you are coming from.

lizzie said:

Neither will be necessary. I already know where you are coming from.

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Okay then all we're doing is playing our own opinions, which makes it pointless.

So I'll leave.