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Racism amoung the republican party?

Is the republican party motivated by racism?

  • Total voters
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Caine said:
I LOLed...

You don't understand what life in the south is like, or what it means when folks wave that flag.

You only understand what your nearsighted yankee schools taught you

"GASP! The south is full of white racist heathens! Avoid the south at all costs! Over a hundred years ago they created a war ALL about SLAVERY GASP Big meanies!"
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How about instead of claiming I don't understand, you tell me how I don't understand?

Explain what the purpose of waving the confederate flag is. Like I said, I'm not from the South... so like you said, I have a narrowed view. I am capable of recognizing my own bias... which is why I give everyone the opportunity to "show me the light" so to speak.

I'm not trying to be ignorant here. I'm giving people the chance to explain to me the reality of the situation. I am simply explaining my current beliefs.
 
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Jucon said:
What else am I to believe? I have nothing to look at except history and the way African Americans were treated in the South during the time period by people who are still alive to this day. And I find it hard to believe these parents taught their kids about equality.

But please feel free to explain the modern South... I'm sure you could guess I'm not from down there. But I'm always open to learning something new. It's my hope I'm wrong.
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Very well. Item 1: the modern South is no more racist, on the whole, than any other part of the country. One thing you may not realize is that most black folks still live here in the South... we live, work and etc side-by-side these days. My home state is 1/3 Afr-Am by population. Interracial couples are common and harassment over that has largely ceased.
My mother is 80. She grew up during "seperate but equal". Last year my white son had a black girlfriend. My mom had no problem with it.
There are lots of minority owned businesses. I've had several bosses who were black. People down here, for the most part, don't care what color your skin is anymore; they're more intrested in your character and abilities.

Item 2: the Confederate battle flag is viewed, by the vast majority of white Southerners, as a symbol of regional pride, and of the South generally; not as a symbol of slavery, racism, or anything of that sort. Just as we choose to emphasize the postive aspects of our heritage (courtesy, hospitality, family, faith, decency, patriotism, self-reliance), many of us see the Stars-and-Bars as a symbol of the positive aspects of our heritage.
Many Southern blacks understand this. I've known a couple of them that fly it their self, and one older black man with a confederate flag on his truck.

Item 3: We're really, really tired of being the racial whipping-boy of the US. Perhaps the rest of you need to look at your own racism instead of projecting it onto us. We're getting along quite well, thanks.
 
TurtleDude said:
Some are just as some dems are. However, the GOP does not have institutionalized racism as part of its program as does the dems. The Dems are the party of affirmative action which is doublly racist. It is racist because it punishes white and Asian students who have no blame whatsoever for the alleged problems blacks suffer today due to what blacks clearly suffered 200 years ago. .

It is racist again because it punishes blacks with a subtle cancer of lowered expectations that keeps blacks mired in mediocrity in many cases. It also punishes blacks who really did make the grade or earn the job on their own

two explanations

when I was a college kid, bashing south africa was popular among many college students. Having been to Africa and studied african politics I knew that racism existed all over sub-saharan africa such as the discrimination against the Ibo in Nigeria, the Masai in Kenya etc. When I asked the ignorant bashers of the RSA why the RSA and its apartheid was worse than say the racial based genocide of Macias or the mass executions launched by Amin, I was told the National Party made apartheid an official policy while the Black dictators were just "de facto" racists.

second point. 12 students in my class (to the best of my knowledge) were nominated by the University for the Rhodes Scholarship Those endorsed were instructed to attend a briefing session with four recent Rhodes Scholars. Three were white, one was a black medical student from Princeton. One of my friends made some comment about "we know why the Black guy got a Rhodes and into Princeton and the Medical school"

well I had the good fortune to talk to the fellow after the meeting. I found out he was valedictorian of his HS class, got 1500 (back under the old standards) on the SATs,was an All-American and Phi Beta Kappa at Princeton and worked in a hospital as well. He was the most qualified guy in the whole room and no matter what he did, people would assume he got to where he was because he was Black.

He is a victim of the racism of affirmative action as surely as the many whites I knew who were turned down for places at say Yale Law or Stanford Medical Student in favor of Blacks with much much lower scores and averages.
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Just to correct you, affirmative action helps all minorities including Asians, Hispanics, and Native Americans. This is an interesting topic though because it can be considered racist. However, the good thing about it is it promotes diversity.
 
Somewhat. I consider myself a conservative. I do realize, however, that social rightism is ultimately more facilitative of certain racist attitudes than social leftism could be. It's on the far right rather than the far left that white nationalism finds its home and in Louisiana and not Massachusetts that David Duke won 32% of the vote and 55% of the white vote in his gubernatorial campaign. To rehash comments made elsewhere:

I stated in another thread that "it’s actually quite rare that the starting point of racism is belief in the genetic inferiority of certain racial groups. More often, it’s related to perceived aggression or offense from a group of people highly populated by a certain race or ethnic group, with discrimination against that race or ethnic group then becoming a convenient mechanism for quickly and effectively categorizing them."

In that thread, we were discussing the allegedly racist attitudes of the Minuteman Project and border vigilantes. I first referred to the cognivite scientist George Lakoff's commentary on the social conservative's view of illegal immigrants and the violation of their moral values that such immigrants' behavior involves.

Within Strict Father [conservative] morality, illegal immigrants are seen as lawbreakers (“illegals”) who should be punished. People who hire them are just pursuing their self-interest, as they should, and so are doing nothing wrong. [Of course, that’s not always true anymore.] From the perspective of the Nation as Family metaphor, illegal immigrants are not citizens, hence they are not children in our family. To be expected to provide food, housing, and health care for illegal immigrants is like being expected to feed, house, and care for other children in the neighborhood who are coming into our house without permission. They weren’t invited, they have no business being here, and we have no responsibility to take care of them.
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I then commented that "as illegal immigrants are viewed that way, and as most illegal immigrants are persons of full or mixed-blooded Indian descent, and given that most Americans incorrectly consider Mexicans a racial group and group Indians of Guatemalan, Nicaraguan, or Salvadorean descent (just to offer several examples) into the “Mexican” group, it’s not surprising that you hear Mexican jokes or slurs; “Mexican” identity has become a way to easily aggregate the people violating the social conservatives’ moral precepts."

Let's consider the example of blacks next, who are stereotypically regarded as being the greatest users of social welfare programs in the country. Apart from being inaccurate, since whites use more total welfare (because of their greater numbers), and there is thus a greater probability of encountering a white welfare user than a black one, welfare provision is regarded as another violation of the social conservative's principes. It is considered to be free provision of rewards to a person that has not worked for it, thereby undermining individual responsibility and self-reliance. (That this is misleading and untrue is irrelevant; the fact that social conservatives believe it to be true is the important part.) If blacks are regarded as the primary users of welfare services, then it stands to reason that blacks would also be regarded as uniquely irresponsible. Blackness then becomes a convenient mechanism for quickly and effectively mentally categorizing welfare users, with certain "urban" traits (speech in the black dialect, a certain style of dress and appearance, etc.) strengthening the categorization more.

This hardly stems from a pre-existing belief in black racial inferiority; it's just that black skin color is associated with welfare usage, high crime rates, and other aspects of "ghetto" life that social conservatives regard as profoundly immoral. And that can lead to racial discrimination, even if the offender is not aware of the exact nature of his or her conduct.
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Let's have another example, just to make the point even more clearly. I've been reading a short report about Indians' status as a minority group, and its author, James Wilson, makes what I consider to be a very insightful remark:

"As the Indian has become a shadowy and elusive figure, pushed to the fringes of American life and increasingly obscured by a growing mass of fable and half-truth, he has been replaced in the popular imagination by a series of powerful but simplistic stereotypes; the Noble Savage exalted by eighteenth century philosophers, the bloodthirsty brute obstructing the path of Victorian progress; the lazy drunk, squandering the taxpayers' money, who ought to be thrown off the reservation to fend for himself; the oil-rich Indian, just like everyone else except that he sometimes puts on a colorful costume and dances."

The bold text is the most important. Indians are a class of people that social conservatives conceptualize as uniquely prone to use of social welfare and entitlements. This is unfair to the social conservative, since poverty is seen as the consequence of one's own laziness or apathy rather than resultant from some institutional defect. Lakoff's statement is this:

"Conservatives...apply the Strict Father model of parenting to the Nation as Family metaphor. To them, social programs amount to coddling people - spoiling them. Instead of having to learn to fend for themselves, people can depend on the public dole. This makes them morally weak, removing the need for self-discipline and willpower. Such moral weakness is a form of immorality. And so, conservatives see social programs as immoral, affirmative action included...Strict Father morality assumes that it is human nature to be motivated by rewards and deterred by punishments. If people were not rewarded for being moral and punished for being immoral, there would be no morality. If people were not rewarded for being self-disciplines and punished for being slothful, there would be no self-discipline and society would break down. Therefore, any social or political system in which people get things they don't earn, or are rewarded for lack of self-discipline or for immoral behavior, is simply an immoral system. Conservatives see the very existence of social programs as unnatural and immoral in this way."

The image of Indians as alcoholic layabouts offends such a person even more, so as with "Mexican" or black identity, Indian identity becomes a convenient mechanism for making generalized inferences about behavior or acts that social conservatives consider immoral (such as welfare use).
 
Caine said:
Why does it have to be different?

I'd say they are racist in the EXACT same way as other races.

In fact, maybe you are right, they are slightly different in that they will take advantage of the "race card" in places were it doesn't belong, turning that into a form of racism as well.

Well, at least the ignorant racist ones do.
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Ahaha, you just agreed and disagreed with me.
 
Every hateful racist bigot I've met was a Republican. Every well intentioned, politically correct, but just as racist because they suggest special treatment rather than equal rights prick I've met was a Democrat.
 
Lachean said:
Every hateful racist bigot I've met was a Republican. Every well intentioned, politically correct, but just as racist because they suggest special treatment rather than equal rights prick I've met was a Democrat.
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If there's no distinction between positive and negative discrimination, and some contention that a beating has the same effect on welfare that a scholarship does, I suppose you might see things that way. I hope that's not a fallacy of equivalence.
 
I think when some republicans open their mouths and advocate things that are social-darwinist and borderline eugenicist, we see a bit of racism/chauvanism
 
Goshin said:
Very well. Item 1: the modern South is no more racist, on the whole, than any other part of the country. One thing you may not realize is that most black folks still live here in the South... we live, work and etc side-by-side these days. My home state is 1/3 Afr-Am by population. Interracial couples are common and harassment over that has largely ceased.
My mother is 80. She grew up during "seperate but equal". Last year my white son had a black girlfriend. My mom had no problem with it.
There are lots of minority owned businesses. I've had several bosses who were black. People down here, for the most part, don't care what color your skin is anymore; they're more intrested in your character and abilities.

Item 2: the Confederate battle flag is viewed, by the vast majority of white Southerners, as a symbol of regional pride, and of the South generally; not as a symbol of slavery, racism, or anything of that sort. Just as we choose to emphasize the postive aspects of our heritage (courtesy, hospitality, family, faith, decency, patriotism, self-reliance), many of us see the Stars-and-Bars as a symbol of the positive aspects of our heritage.
Many Southern blacks understand this. I've known a couple of them that fly it their self, and one older black man with a confederate flag on his truck.

Item 3: We're really, really tired of being the racial whipping-boy of the US. Perhaps the rest of you need to look at your own racism instead of projecting it onto us. We're getting along quite well, thanks.
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Thanks for this. I have to tell you though that it's common belief in my area that the South is more racist than the rest of the country. Like I said, much of that belief is based off of history, but clearly we have a lot to learn about our neighbors.


The one thing I'd appreciate a little more insight on is the confederate flag. I mean the reason they secede in the first place is because they wanted to keep their slaves. In my mind the flag was a symbol of the fight to continue slavery in the south. And many people I know feel the same way. Why not pick another flag to represent Southern pride that doesn't have a dark past?
 
Jucon said:
Why not pick another flag to represent Southern pride that doesn't have a dark past?
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Which begs the question, can rednecks make an original flag?

Its a very bad symbol for the South, because besides racism, it conveys the message that the South still supports secession. Its not a symbol of state's rights, its about a completely different confederation this is not the U.S.
 
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Cochise said:
If there's no distinction between positive and negative discrimination, and some contention that a beating has the same effect on welfare that a scholarship does, I suppose you might see things that way. I hope that's not a fallacy of equivalence.
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Not at all IMO
 
I can't say that they are all racist, but they are puppets.
 
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Sanitas said:
Someone very close to me thinks that the republican party is racist. I was watching CNN (I believe) and came across Newt Gingrich saying Obama is the most radical president ever. Then, someone said that the most radical thing about Obama was his race.

So, is the republican party racist?

I'm not taking any sides, just provoking debate. I will be voting, however :p
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I tend to see more racism exhibited from the "other side"
 
Sanitas said:
So, is the republican party racist?
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There are racists in the GOP just like there are racists among the Democrats.

Are GOP policies racist? No.

Now, are you done trolling?
 
Goobieman said:
There are racists in the GOP just like there are racists among the Democrats.

Are GOP policies racist? No.

Now, are you done trolling?
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Just posing a question.
 
TurtleDude said:
Jesse Jackson-racist

Maxine Waters (D-California) racist (she was the twit who tried to justify Reginald Denny's beating by a bunch of racist black thugs)

Al Sharpeton-Racist

Mel Reynolds (former Rhodes Scholar, Dem congressman and convicted Child rapist and extortionist) Racist

Cynthia McKinney (D-Ga) racist

Black columnists are riddled with racists Herbert, Pitts for example

Harry Banana boat Belafonte-Racist
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If you truly think that Maxine Waters and Cynthia McKinney are racists, Than you're beyond crazy.
 
I would probably wager that the Dems are the most racist. Racism isn't just towards minorities. It seems as if the Dems support affirmative action and other minority favoring legislation because they believe they are inferior and need extra help finding a job. Either that or they believe that the workforce is run by white racist supremacists that won't let anyone but white people work for them. We do know though that a liberal and Democrat favoring organization is extremely racist, this organization being planned parenthood.
 
digsbe said:
I would probably wager that the Dems are the most racist. Racism isn't just towards minorities. It seems as if the Dems support affirmative action and other minority favoring legislation because they believe they are inferior and need extra help finding a job. Either that or they believe that the workforce is run by white racist supremacists that won't let anyone but white people work for them. We do know though that a liberal and Democrat favoring organization is extremely racist, this organization being planned parenthood.
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Where do you learn this stuff, Digsbe?
 
jr602az said:
I can't say that they are all racist, but they are puppets.
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That's pretty silly-didn't you vote that all are racists and if so that pretty much brands you as detached from reality

Yes, all of them
jr602az, Phantom
 
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Catz Part Deux said:
Where do you learn this stuff, Digsbe?
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What? My statements about Planned Parenthood? The facts are that the founder was a eugenicist and that they tend to put more abortion clinics in minority neighborhoods. We do know that Robert Byrd (A Democrat) was a KKK member and opposed desegregation in the 60's. Sure there may be some closet racist Republicans, but there sure is racism on the Dems side too.
 
Jucon said:
Thanks for this. I have to tell you though that it's common belief in my area that the South is more racist than the rest of the country. Like I said, much of that belief is based off of history, but clearly we have a lot to learn about our neighbors.
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Thanks.


The one thing I'd appreciate a little more insight on is the confederate flag. I mean the reason they secede in the first place is because they wanted to keep their slaves. In my mind the flag was a symbol of the fight to continue slavery in the south. And many people I know feel the same way. Why not pick another flag to represent Southern pride that doesn't have a dark past?
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First of all, the Civil War was not only about slavery; I've heard even left-leaning scholars argue that slavery was actually not the primary issue. In college I had an opportunity to study the history of the civil war in an advanced class normally open only to senior-year history majors, and the prof was known for being one of the most in-depth professors on campus. It was facinating, and eye opening.

The foremost issues causing the Civil War were economic, and revolved around foreign trade, and tariffs imposed by the Federal government (chiefly in response to New England intrest groups that wanted to curtail the South being able to trade directly with other nations, cutting into their shipping and manufacturing profits.) It became a central-authority vs States-rights political battle, that turned into civil war because the Northern-dominated legislature wasn't listening when the South told them "your tariffs are going to bankrupt us."
Slavery was actually a secondary issue to most people at the time. It was used as a "causus belli" or propaganda element... part of this was because of the actions and lobbying of various emancipation groups, but also party because it made excellent propaganda to characterize the war as a war of good vs evil.

It is axiomatic that the victors write the history books, and so after the war the "free the slaves" aspect was emphasized and the economic and Fed-vs-State issues were marginalized. Most people don't have a clue about the real causes anymore.

But... lots of Southerners are well educated on this subject and know that the war was far from being all about slavery.

Many of us see the Stars-and-Bars as a symbol of state sovereignty and rights, a symbol of resistance to tyranny, rather than anything to do with slavery per se.

I myself do not fly the Confederate flag, out of consideration to certain of my fellow Americans who are unaware of the factors explained above, but I support the right of any Southerner to do so, and I try to educate those who are unaware of its meaning to Southerners.
 
I also voted impulsively, I agree its only on the fringe.
 
Goshin said:
Thanks.




First of all, the Civil War was not only about slavery; I've heard even left-leaning scholars argue that slavery was actually not the primary issue. In college I had an opportunity to study the history of the civil war in an advanced class normally open only to senior-year history majors, and the prof was known for being one of the most in-depth professors on campus. It was facinating, and eye opening.

The foremost issues causing the Civil War were economic, and revolved around foreign trade, and tariffs imposed by the Federal government (chiefly in response to New England intrest groups that wanted to curtail the South being able to trade directly with other nations, cutting into their shipping and manufacturing profits.) It became a central-authority vs States-rights political battle, that turned into civil war because the Northern-dominated legislature wasn't listening when the South told them "your tariffs are going to bankrupt us."
Slavery was actually a secondary issue to most people at the time. It was used as a "causus belli" or propaganda element... part of this was because of the actions and lobbying of various emancipation groups, but also party because it made excellent propaganda to characterize the war as a war of good vs evil.

It is axiomatic that the victors write the history books, and so after the war the "free the slaves" aspect was emphasized and the economic and Fed-vs-State issues were marginalized. Most people don't have a clue about the real causes anymore.

But... lots of Southerners are well educated on this subject and know that the war was far from being all about slavery.

Many of us see the Stars-and-Bars as a symbol of state sovereignty and rights, a symbol of resistance to tyranny, rather than anything to do with slavery per se.

I myself do not fly the Confederate flag, out of consideration to certain of my fellow Americans who are unaware of the factors explained above, but I support the right of any Southerner to do so, and I try to educate those who are unaware of its meaning to Southerners.
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Indeed.

Plus, It aint called the Rebel flag for no reason. ;)

Not to mention, this:
21313a.jpg


The Hazard boys were rebels, they broke the rules, broke the laws, but were all around good guys. Many people of THAT era easily associate the flag with that kind of mentality. The REBEL flag. Resistance to tyranny.
 
Goshin said:
Thanks.




First of all, the Civil War was not only about slavery; I've heard even left-leaning scholars argue that slavery was actually not the primary issue. In college I had an opportunity to study the history of the civil war in an advanced class normally open only to senior-year history majors, and the prof was known for being one of the most in-depth professors on campus. It was facinating, and eye opening.

The foremost issues causing the Civil War were economic, and revolved around foreign trade, and tariffs imposed by the Federal government (chiefly in response to New England intrest groups that wanted to curtail the South being able to trade directly with other nations, cutting into their shipping and manufacturing profits.) It became a central-authority vs States-rights political battle, that turned into civil war because the Northern-dominated legislature wasn't listening when the South told them "your tariffs are going to bankrupt us."
Slavery was actually a secondary issue to most people at the time. It was used as a "causus belli" or propaganda element... part of this was because of the actions and lobbying of various emancipation groups, but also party because it made excellent propaganda to characterize the war as a war of good vs evil.

It is axiomatic that the victors write the history books, and so after the war the "free the slaves" aspect was emphasized and the economic and Fed-vs-State issues were marginalized. Most people don't have a clue about the real causes anymore.

But... lots of Southerners are well educated on this subject and know that the war was far from being all about slavery.

Many of us see the Stars-and-Bars as a symbol of state sovereignty and rights, a symbol of resistance to tyranny, rather than anything to do with slavery per se.

I myself do not fly the Confederate flag, out of consideration to certain of my fellow Americans who are unaware of the factors explained above, but I support the right of any Southerner to do so, and I try to educate those who are unaware of its meaning to Southerners.
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Thanks again for this.

I believe the South deserved higher taxes on their imported and exported goods. Theoretically one can make a much larger profit by enslaving the work force and simply having to clothe, feed and provide shelter for said slaves; rather than paying the work force fair wages like every other person. They had an unfair and inhumane advantage over the non-slave states. I'm sure the North thought this as well.

If it were up to me I would have banned all trading with a slave nation / state simply because of their blockage of civil rights, even if it did bankrupt them. IMHO they deserved to go bankrupt. And I feel this way about any slave owner... not just the Southern ones.
 
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I answered, "yes, all of them" because this absolute is obviously true.
 
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