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Socialism vs. Capitalism

Which do you Prefer

  • A purely Socialist economy

    Votes: 3 5.3%

  • An economy with more Socialism then Capitalism

    Votes: 7 12.3%

  • An economy with equal Socialist and Capitalist ideas

    Votes: 10 17.5%

  • An economy with more Capitalism then Socialism

    Votes: 26 45.6%

  • A purely Capitalist society

    Votes: 11 19.3%
  • Total voters
    57
Goobieman said:
We will? Havent heard a thing about that. Got a source?
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U.S. Treasury Plans to Sell Citigroup Stake in 2010 (Update3)
March 29, 2010, 12:48 PM EDT

By Michael J. Moore and Rebecca Christie

March 29 (Bloomberg) -- The U.S. Treasury Department plans to sell the government’s 27 percent stake in Citigroup Inc. this year in what could become the biggest profit for the bank bailout program.

The Treasury will dispose of its 7.7 billion common shares of New York-based Citigroup over the course of 2010 using a “pre-arranged written trading plan,” the agency said today in a statement. The Treasury’s stake -- the biggest of any common shareholder -- had a market value of $33.2 billion as of last week’s closing price, for a paper profit of $8.2 billion.

The sale would finish the recovery of $45 billion given to Citigroup from the Troubled Asset Relief Program and bring the Treasury closer to President Barack Obama’s goal of recouping “every single dime” of taxpayer money put into the bank rescue fund. Citigroup, ranked third by assets among U.S. lenders, took infusions from the $700 billion TARP fund in late 2008 as waning confidence almost triggered a run by depositors.
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U.S. Treasury Plans to Sell Citigroup Stake in 2010 (Update3) - BusinessWeek
 
Goobieman said:
I knew they were going to sell for an $8B profit.
Where's the part that we get the profit?
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You mean you want a check sent to you?

We means the taxpayers. The profit goes to the U.S. Treasury, which means we will pay that much less in taxes to cover the debt. Basic accounting.
 
misterman said:
You mean you want a check sent to you?
We means the taxpayers. The profit goes to the U.S. Treasury, which means we will pay that much less in taxes to cover the debt. Basic accounting.
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-I- meant we, as in the people, individually.
-We- assumed the risk so -we- should reap the reward.
Else, the government is making money off -our- risk.
 
Goobieman said:
-I- meant we, as in the people, individually.
-We- assumed the risk so -we- should reap the reward.
Else, the government is making money off -our- risk.
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Isn't that what corporations do all the time?
 
repeter said:
Isn't that what corporations do all the time?
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Yes... and when their stock price goes up, those that own the stock profit from it.
What's your point?
 
Goobieman said:
-I- meant we, as in the people, individually.
-We- assumed the risk so -we- should reap the reward.
Else, the government is making money off -our- risk.
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Making money? The government's making money now?

No, the government is getting our money back, and putting it back where it found it. We will pay less in taxes than we would if they didn't do that.

Don't play accounting semantic games.

Would you rather the government send you one dollar as your share, and then charge you an extra dollar in taxes to cover the amount that went into the TARP in the first place?
 
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Goobieman said:
Yes... and when their stock price goes up, those that own the stock profit from it.
What's your point?
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The taxpayers are profiting from this. The money that went into the banks is going back to the same place it came from. Consider it out big fat joint checking account at the U.S. Treasury.
 
misterman said:
Making money? The government's making money now? No, the government is getting our money back, and putting it back where it found it.
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Yes -- and then there is an extra $8B on the investment. Thats profit made by the government, after risking our money to do it. That profit rightfully belongs to those that took the risk that created it -- we, the people.

We will pay less in taxes than we would if they didn't do that.
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Really? There's an $8B tax cut floating somewhere in congress?
 
Goobieman said:
Yes -- and then there is an extra $8B on the investment. Thats profit made by the government, after risking our money to do it. That profit rightfully belongs to those that took the risk that created it -- we, the people.
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And you will get it.

Really? There's an $8B tax cut floating somewhere in congress?
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There's the absence of a $8billion tax increase floating in the future.

I'm not going to play accounting games with you.

I'll just remind you that the point of the TARP was to save the economy from complete collapse, not to make a profit. It sure as hell wasn't socialism.
 
misterman said:
And you will get it.
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Like I said - I didnt see anyting in the artcle you posted regarding a dsibursement.

There's the absence of a $8billion tax increase floating in the future.
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And to think -you're- accusing -me- of playing accounting games

Imagine if GM said it would pay its dividends in terms of not incresasing the price of its cars.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
My problem with modern capitalism is there aren't enough capitalists.
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In capitalist lingo that's called an opportunity :)

Although if the non-capitalists have power and turn it into socialist...I suppose that's time to move.
 
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Goobieman said:
And to think -you're- accusing -me- of playing accounting games

Imagine if GM said it would pay its dividends in terms of not incresasing the price of its cars.
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But that's not what is happening. Don't play accounting games.

The money is going back in the same account it came out of.
 
Goobieman said:
This is false.
All work for the benefit of themsleves. They might work for a corporation; if they do, they do it to benefit themselves.
It is up to the people to supply their own needs.
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Don't fool yourself. They are working for the benefit of the corporation. The corporation, like the state, provides money for their needs...but they do not work for themselves by any shape or form any more than the worker in the socialist state works for themselves.
 
disneydude said:
Don't fool yourself. They are working for the benefit of the corporation.
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Not true in my observation. I assure you I work for the corporation that employs me because they give me the best pay and benefits for what I want to do. If someone else makes me a better offer, I'll change jobs. I work so that I can pay my bills and live the lifestyle I want.
If people are working "for the good of the corporation", it's because they want the corporation to succeed, which in turn gives them a better retirement or security of some type. The only people I know of that work for the good of the corporation are the owners of said corporations.
 
lizzie said:
Not true in my observation. I assure you I work for the corporation that employs me because they give me the best pay and benefits for what I want to do. If someone else makes me a better offer, I'll change jobs. I work so that I can pay my bills and live the lifestyle I want.
If people are working "for the good of the corporation", it's because they want the corporation to succeed, which in turn gives them a better retirement or security of some type. The only people I know of that work for the good of the corporation are the owners of said corporations.
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You are still working for the benefit of the corporation in the same way that the worker in the socialist state works for the benefit of the state.
The fact that either is compensated simply supplys for their needs.
 
disneydude said:
You are still working for the benefit of the corporation in the same way that the worker in the socialist state works for the benefit of the state.
The fact that either is compensated simply supplys for their needs.
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I'm working for the benefit of me. If the corporation happens to benefit because I am part of the workforce, they benefit as well, from having a good employee. I'm not there to make the corporation better. I'm there to make my life better. Sometimes, both things happen, but it's my life that I wish to improve.

The way I view it is they are fortunate to have me for an employee. I have good credentials and am very good at my job. They cannot replace me easily.
 
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misterman said:
Gosh, if only the voters have 100% of the power to elect people no matter what anyone spends. :roll:
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Yeah, because campaign funding for re-elections has absolutely nothing to do with the outcomes of elections.
 
Politics101 said:
This poll is deceiving because you cannot have a socialist government and capitalist government working together as a single body. It's either socialism or capitalism, there is no idealist 'perfect' world where socialism and capitalism can work together under the same government.
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Right you are. Socialism is the workers in power. Capitalism is the exploiters/bosses (non-workers) in power.
 
faminedynasty said:
Right you are. Socialism is the workers in power. Capitalism is the exploiters/bosses (non-workers) in power.
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In reality, in socialism the workers have no power. The state has power and the workers are like bees in a hive. If we were like bees and all willingly sacrificed for the good of the colony, it might work, but humans are a wee bit evolved compared to honeybees.
 
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