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Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

  • Yes, this particular young man is a perfect example

    Votes: 12 20.3%

  • No, never.

    Votes: 31 52.5%

  • The justice system needs another alternative for extremely young, potentially dangerous offenders

    Votes: 11 18.6%

  • Other, please explain

    Votes: 5 8.5%
  • Total voters
    59
Tucker Case said:
Wait, you invent a scenario from out of thin air, i.e. you are essentially saying "this could be something that a child might possibly potentially just out of pure raw chance encounter while performing a hypotehtical current events assignment that may or may not ever happen but just for the sake of my argument let's pretend it actually does happen like all the time, even though I've completely made it up right at this second but you know it could so totally happen maybe.", and I'm the one being dishonest? :lol:


Could a child encounter it? Sure. Is it at all likely? Not really.
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I disagree, especially once it becomes a 'Lifetime' movie......;)
 
Gipper said:
I'll tell Piaget and a plethora of other psychologists and neurophysicists how you disagree with them.

I'll adopt the liberal view - set all criminals free or give some BS explanation as to why they do things and "rehabilitate" them with a stern talking-to.
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My liberal view of prison. It should be used to seperate those who are a danger to society from society. Nothing else. To say that a kid is not an adult is not saying he should be kept far from normal society.
 
Crunch said:
Would you adopt him after treatment?

Let him socialize with your children or grand children?

Have him for a sleep over after his treatment?

In other words, would you be willing to bet the life of you and yours that after treatment he is safe?.... or are you only willing to bet someone else’s life on that.
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If he's able to get the good and proper treatment I think he should get, yeah, I would.
 
Wonder if this was some religious honor killing thing? Is he a Muslim or an extremist Christian?
 
It disturbs me that suddenly children can be tried as adults just because society has created monsters and we feel so helpless.

If an 11 year old can betried as an adult, than why cant he vote, yes vote? Why cant he drive a care or make legal decisions, like finding his own lawyer.

Today society needs to rethink childhood. I suggest that life terms and the death penelty should not apply to children. But there are other means of holding children responsible for there actions and what responsiblities does that father have?
 
Partisan said:
Good, it will serve as a warning to other young would be killers that they can no longer hide behind their youth to escape punishment for their misdeeds....;)
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WRONG.

He's a child and the judge is a ****ing idiot. The feds will trump PA and the ignorant ass judge.
 
Gipper said:
Unless affected by some level of mental retardation, an 11 year old brain is fully aware of the conceptuality of right and wrong.
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That's only one aspect to consider. Another would be the level of self-control they possess.
 
Going by the limited information giving in the various articles I would say yes he should be.

At 11 you know right from wrong. You know killing another human being is wrong. Unless he is mentally handicapped I would say he is well on his way to being a full blown sociopath.

I see no reason not to charge him as an adult. No one has presented a really convincing argument why he should not be.

According (again to the limited information from various news articles) he took his fathers shotgun with forethought and malice and killed this woman and her unborn child.

Should all kids be charged as adults? No. It should be on a case by case basis as we do it now.
 
This 11 year old is rather an extreme case in America? Why doesnt anyone ask about his fathers role in creating a monster. We say the apple doesnt fall far from the tree.

Children should be punished but treated differntly than harden lifers. She he be gangbanged every night by harden criminals?

Isnt life without parole cruel and unusal punishment?
 
bennyhill said:
This 11 year old is rather an extreme case in America? Why doesnt anyone ask about his fathers role in creating a monster. We say the apple doesnt fall far from the tree.
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As with the other posts at this point it is all speculation about the boy or even his father and the mental fitness of either.

bennyhill said:
Children should be punished but treated differntly than harden lifers. She he be gangbanged every night by harden criminals?
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Even hardened criminals have a problem with child molesters. They usually try to hurt or kill them, which is why most of the time they have to be separated from the general population.

bennyhill said:
Isnt life without parole cruel and unusal punishment?
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You are right. We should just execute him. :doh
 
Personally I wouldn't use age as a concrete variable. Some 11-year-olds are mature enough to understand their actions, but many aren't. If all 11-year-olds were mature enough to be tried as adults, I can hardly fathom why they would be unable to smoke cigarettes or have consentual sex. It needs to be taken on a case-by-case basis.

In this case, the psychiatrist for the prosecution says the boy cannot be rehabilitated. Well, I think they should get a few second opinions before they proceed.

Gipper said:
Prison has nothing to do with reform. It has to do with punishment. If that was the case, crimes with excessively high rates of recidivism such as child molestation would be life-sentence crimes after the first conviction.
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Actually child molesters on average recidivate less than any other kind of offender, but there is a chronic subset of mostly high risk offenders that will offend over and over again given the opportunity.
 
I ask myself, what kind of a lawyer does this kid have? He would be better off to defend himself. He needs Perry Mason.
 
For those who say an 11 year old should be charged with premeditated murder, and if found guilty, be imprisoned for life, or even executed, I ask you to consider how aware an eleven year old is of the reality and permanence of death.

My dad died when I was 8. I was up at boarding school when it happened, and when the head told me I could have the day off for the funeral, I genuinely thought I was going to spend time with my dad. Now I'm not generally thought of as being stupid, and 8 years ago I wasn't stupid either. But I recently had two people who were very close to me die, and I have a much better idea now what death is about. I simply had no concept of death, other than people falling down in movies, or blowing people up in computer games, even four years ago. I am sure that if I had had access to a real shotgun at that time, I might easily have killed someone in fun or in anger.

I know the boy is not eight, but he is only halfway between my age then and my age now. I do not believe that most 11 year olds have an accurate concept of death. And nowhere within the British justice system would an 11 or 12 year old be tried as an adult. I believe this is as it should be.
 
Nice comment Leo. At last a human being on the web.
 
Blackdog said:
I see no reason not to charge him as an adult. No one has presented a really convincing argument why he should not be.
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Ummm, how about the fact that he's ELEVEN.


Yeah, let's just throw the entire justice system out the window and start applying our laws based on our feelings. That's certainly the smart thing to do. :doh
 
The law must be consistent in its application. You can't decide that kids under 18 are universally stripped of all rights to vote because they aren't mature enough, but can be considered mature enough to be charged as adults. Its fine to decide that maturity can be decided on a case by case basis, but you must allow it for voting as well as criminal punishment. Either choice is fine, but one must be treated as an adult in all aspects if you want to consider them as such.
 
MyOwnDrum said:
Here's the case: FOXNews.com - Adult Trial for Boy in Death of Pa. Woman, Fetus

They are trying this boy as an adult. If you go to the article, you'll see a photo of the boy.

An 11 year old is very young. At 11 most kids haven't even started puberty. How can a child that young be considered an adult? Is this kid any more unreformable than many young thugs? What he allegedly did was horrible, but he is not anywhere near adulthood.
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1-how on earth can they try him for a second homicide charge? Its 'just' a fetus after all...(OK...thats out of the way...)

2-It is highly unlikely (virtually impossible) that this kid will be rehabbed in juvenile custody. if he is released at 21 it is a virtual certainty that he will create more victims. Thats not to say he COULDNT be helped...just that with the current system he WILL NOT be helped. It becomes a matter of public safety.

So TRY him as an adult...and sentence him to life WITH the possibility of parole in say, 20 years. If he is capable of rehabilitation he will demonstrate that he has. If not...keep him behind bars.
 
VanceMack said:
1-how on earth can they try him for a second homicide charge? Its 'just' a fetus after all...(OK...thats out of the way...)

2-It is highly unlikely (virtually impossible) that this kid will be rehabbed in juvenile custody. if he is released at 21 it is a virtual certainty that he will create more victims. Thats not to say he COULDNT be helped...just that with the current system he WILL NOT be helped. It becomes a matter of public safety.

So TRY him as an adult...and sentence him to life WITH the possibility of parole in say, 20 years. If he is capable of rehabilitation he will demonstrate that he has. If not...keep him behind bars.
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How do you know this?
 
Leo said:
For those who say an 11 year old should be charged with premeditated murder, and if found guilty, be imprisoned for life, or even executed, I ask you to consider how aware an eleven year old is of the reality and permanence of death.

My dad died when I was 8. I was up at boarding school when it happened, and when the head told me I could have the day off for the funeral, I genuinely thought I was going to spend time with my dad. Now I'm not generally thought of as being stupid, and 8 years ago I wasn't stupid either. But I recently had two people who were very close to me die, and I have a much better idea now what death is about. I simply had no concept of death, other than people falling down in movies, or blowing people up in computer games, even four years ago. I am sure that if I had had access to a real shotgun at that time, I might easily have killed someone in fun or in anger.

I know the boy is not eight, but he is only halfway between my age then and my age now. I do not believe that most 11 year olds have an accurate concept of death. And nowhere within the British justice system would an 11 or 12 year old be tried as an adult. I believe this is as it should be.
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Sorry for your loss at such a young age.

The fact is that the average male brain doesnt develop fully til they are 26 and the last part of the brain that fully develops is the decision making/right/wrong filter. So...with the exception of experience he is no less capable of making a right decision than an 18 or 20 year old. The psychiatrist that interviewed him indicated that he lacked the capability to be rehabbed. Ultimately, he will hurt others.

I hope Im wrong-it would be tragic to see a life end at such an early age. Surely there are extenuating circumstances...but then...there ALWAYS is. I would opt for trying him as an adult and sentencing him to life with the possibility of parole.
 
LiveUninhibited said:
How do you know this?
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I dont 'know' with certainty that he wont be rehabbed...I DO have a pretty good idea.

4 years working with the juvenile justice system...300+ sex offenders and violent criminals...recidivism rate of 70%...programs designed to warehouse, not heal and rehabilitate...would you like me to continue? I COULD get very graphic about some of the things these 12, 13, and 14 year olds have done to their victims...and to fellow inmates...and to careless guards...

The psychiatrist that interviewed him stated he felt it was highly unlikely the kid will be rehabbed.

I have an idea...we'll slap him on the wrist (because he is only 12 after all) and then he can live with you and your family. have any small children in your home? Want to take that shot?
 
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jallman said:
Ummm, how about the fact that he's ELEVEN.
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That is nothing more than an emotional response. Based on feelings about a child, rather than the facts in the case as they have been presented.

This is not an acceptable argument.

jallman said:
Yeah, let's just throw the entire justice system out the window and start applying our laws based on our feelings. That's certainly the smart thing to do. :doh.
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The only one suggesting this is you.

I asked some very basic questions...

Does the child have presence of mind to know beyond a reasonable doubt right from wrong? According to the article he does.

Can he be rehabilitated? According to the psychiatrist he can not. Probably a sociopath.

Was it premeditated? All the evidence points to yes, he made a plan and had time to reconsider.

Again my decision is based on the limited facts we have available and not emotion as you would try to project on me.
 
Blackdog said:
That is nothing more than an emotional response. Based on feelings about a child, rather than the facts in the case as they have been presented.

This is not an acceptable argument.
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No, it has nothing to do with feelings at all. It has to do with the FACT that the law states he is a minor and is to be tried in the juvenile system. The whole purpose of having two criminal systems to try adults and children in is because children have different capacities to appreciate the consequences of their actions. The law holds an expectation that the adults in the child's life are more responsible for him than he is.

The only one suggesting this is you.
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No, I am suggesting a very strict adherence to the law despite the emotional response against the callousness of his crime.

I asked some very basic questions...

Does the child have presence of mind to know beyond a reasonable doubt right from wrong? According to the article he does.
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And according to the article, he's ELEVEN.

Can he be rehabilitated? According to the psychiatrist he can not. Probably a sociopath.
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And according to the article, he's ELEVEN.

Was it premeditated? All the evidence points to yes, he made a plan and had time to reconsider.
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And all evidence points to the fact that he's ELEVEN.

Again my decision is based on the limited facts we have available and not emotion as you would try to project on me.
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Again, my decision is based on the relevant fact that he's ELEVEN, not the emotional response to his crime.
 
VanceMack said:
I have an idea...we'll slap him on the wrist (because he is only 12 after all) and then he can live with you and your family. have any small children in your home? Want to take that shot?
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See, here's another dishonest argument born of emotional reaction rather than clear thought. No one is suggesting he just be "slapped on the wrist". However, I do think that the law is meaningless if it isn't applied objectively and consistently in all cases.

This whole "well let him live with you" is nothing more than an appeal to emotion, an attempt to break logic and objectivity by bringing personal fear into the argument.
 
jallman said:
No, it has nothing to do with feelings at all. It has to do with the FACT that the law states he is a minor and is to be tried in the juvenile system. The whole purpose of having two criminal systems to try adults and children in is because children have different capacities to appreciate the consequences of their actions. The law holds an expectation that the adults in the child's life are more responsible for him than he is.



No, I am suggesting a very strict adherence to the law despite the emotional response against the callousness of his crime.



And according to the article, he's ELEVEN.



And according to the article, he's ELEVEN.



And all evidence points to the fact that he's ELEVEN.



Again, my decision is based on the relevant fact that he's ELEVEN, not the emotional response to his crime.
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When you come up with a better argument than "he's eleven" I will consider it. Until then your argument is lacking anything of substance and common sense.
 
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