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Should the U.S. legalize drugs for Mexico's benefit?

Should the U.S. legalize drugs for Mexico's benefit?

  • Yes

    Votes: 15 28.3%

  • No

    Votes: 24 45.3%

  • Maybe

    Votes: 1 1.9%

  • Other

    Votes: 13 24.5%
  • Total voters
    53
samsmart said:
That may be the case. But even if it is, we could 1) use the money we currently spend on drug enforcement and 2) use the money we could get from tax revenue from selling drugs to instead spend it to enforce the laws on those criminal exercises.
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You're probably not going to see much revenue even if you did legalize it, the underground sources would still provide it and people would still buy it or grow their own. Plus the fact, even if you did have more money to spend, the government would just waste it, like they do with most things today, I can't imagine you'd see much, if any, overall improvement.
 
USA-1 said:
Just as with alcohol, drug use by children will increase exponentially when they are legalized.
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Just like the post prohibition spike in murders that you were claiming ,this too is bull****.

Kids continuously, year after year say that marijuana. -an illicit drug- is easier to obtain than alcohol. drug dealers, and speak easy operators do not check ID.


Also a look at the Wickersham report (1931 report commissioned to look at the effects of prohibition) you would see that this was among its findings:

Alcohol use declined during the first two or three years of Prohibition (a trend that had begun before Prohibition started) but rose every year thereafter. There was, in particular, an increase in the use of distilled liquors. There was also evidence of increased alcohol use and addiction among minors.
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Wickersham Commission Report on Alcohol Prohibition (Table of Contents)
 
USA-1 said:
Just as with alcohol, drug use by children will increase exponentially when they are legalized.
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Children are going to drink alcohol whether it's illegal or not. Children are going to try drugs whether it's illegal or not. The only question is whether or not we're going to toss them in jail with life-long offenders of serious crimes and make it nearly impossible for them to gain lawful well-paying employment when they get older.
 
Cephus said:
You're probably not going to see much revenue even if you did legalize it, the underground sources would still provide it and people would still buy it or grow their own. Plus the fact, even if you did have more money to spend, the government would just waste it, like they do with most things today, I can't imagine you'd see much, if any, overall improvement.
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There would be less money spent on:
LEOs enforcing the laws
Lawyers prosecuting and defending these laws
Judges paid to oversee these trials
Prisons to imprison drug criminals

Considering how much money is spent on all of those things nationwide every single day, it'll add up.

And I think more people would rather purchase drugs from legitimate sources they can trust than from criminal sources who may do them harm. Legalization and decriminalization won't curb drug use, but I have no problem with that. But what legalization and decriminalization will do is curb drug violence. And that I am all for.
 
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samsmart said:
There would be less money spent on:
LEOs enforcing the laws
Lawyers prosecuting and defending these laws
Judges paid to oversee these trials
Prisons to imprison drug criminals
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I'm entirely in favor of letting non-violent drug users out of prison right this second, that's not a good use of our money. That doesn't mean we stop drug use from being illegal, just that we spend our time and money more effectively. As for the lawyers, you don't think they're going to stop charging for things, do you? They'll just find some other pointless thing to make a bundle off of.

And I think more people would rather purchase drugs from legitimate sources they can trust than from criminal sources who may do them harm. Legalization and decriminalization won't curb drug use, but I have no problem with that. But what legalization and decriminalization will do is curb drug violence. And that I am all for.
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These people are doing harm to themselves every single day, you think they care where they get their drugs? All it will do, if anything, is migrate violence from drugs to something else.
 
samsmart said:
Children are going to drink alcohol whether it's illegal or not. Children are going to try drugs whether it's illegal or not. The only question is whether or not we're going to toss them in jail with life-long offenders of serious crimes and make it nearly impossible for them to gain lawful well-paying employment when they get older.
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True. But drug use among children will increase if drugs are legal, just as it is with alcohol. Drugs will be as easy to get as beer for kids.
 
USA-1 said:
True. But drug use among children will increase if drugs are legal, just as it is with alcohol. Drugs will be as easy to get as beer for kids.
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bull**** again!!!

Drug Decriminalization in Portugal: Lessons for Creating Fair and Successful Drug Policies | Glenn Greenwald | Cato Institute: White Paper

page 12 and 13 will show the decline in usage for school age children after Portugal decriminalized ALL drugs in 2001.

And illegal drugs are already easier than beer to get for kids.
 
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USA-1 said:
True. But drug use among children will increase if drugs are legal, just as it is with alcohol. Drugs will be as easy to get as beer for kids.
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Yeah, beer isn't all that easy to get.

Drugs is easier to get because criminals will sell to anybody and will even use other kids to sell because they don't care anyway.

Beer is harder for kids to get because beer is legal and regulated, which means criminals don't sell beer because it can be gotten too easily by adults at stores; however, stores won't risk not being able to sell beer to adults legally for selling to kids.

If kids were to get drugs, it would likely be from their parents or the parents of a friend of theirs. However, that's not as much of an argument since that happens today with beer but beer is still legal.
 
USA-1 said:
Portugal? You are joking, right?
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has the US decriminalized All drugs so we can use a "domestic" study?

feel free to provide evidence to counter this instead of your unsubstantiated bull****ting, and while you are at it tell me why a drug using kid in Portugal is so much different than a drug using kid in the US.
 
samsmart said:
I'm watching "Fareed Zakaria GPS" on CNN and Mexico's President Felipe Calderon is calling for the U.S. to start legalizing drugs to stop the drug violence in Mexico. He says that the U.S. is the highest consumer in the world of illegal drugs, so U.S. demand dictates the prices for Mexican drug suppliers. So if the U.S. started legalizing drugs, Mexican drug violence would decrease and help bring back order.

So my question is this: if U.S. consumption of illegal drugs is causing problems in Mexico, does the United States have the responsibility to legalize or decriminalize drugs so that Mexico loses it's black market as a drug supplier which will reduce drug violence in Mexico?
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I wouldn't say we have a responsibility; but I think it's the wise thing to do. You know, if we're one of the largest consumers of illegal drugs, maybe some of it shouldn't be illegal.
 
marduc said:
has the US decriminalized All drugs so we can use a "domestic" study?

feel free to provide evidence to counter this instead of your unsubstantiated bull****ting, and while you are at it tell me why a drug using kid in Portugal is so much different than a drug using kid in the US.
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Portugal has about the per capita income of Puerto Rico, not to mention only 10 million people. It is a dirt poor country. It is nothing like the US. The US is much more complex. Their culture is totally different and our children do have disposable income.. If you don't know the difference between American kids and children of Portugal I can't help you.
Comparing The US to Portugal is beyond ridiculous.
 
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samsmart said:
So you're saying it's okay for Portuguese kids to take drugs but not American kids?
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No. I am saying our children are different then theirs and drug use will increase among American children if drugs are legalized just as it is with alcohol.
 
USA-1 said:
No. I am saying our children are different then theirs and drug use will increase among American children if drugs are legalized just as it is with alcohol.
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Evidence to support you claim? You have none. Mere speculation. Whereas we have studies that show there is no appreciable increase in usage when decriminalizing or legalizing.
 
USA-1 said:
No. I am saying our children are different then theirs and drug use will increase among American children if drugs are legalized just as it is with alcohol.
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Are you seriously trying to argue that American youth don't have access to drugs now?

Wouldn't it be just a little bit better if pot were being sold by someone with an incentive to check ID?
 
USA-1 said:
Portugal has about the per capita income of Puerto Rico. It is a dirt poor country. It is nothing like the US. Their culture is totally different and our children do have disposable income.. If you don't know the difference between American kids and children of Portugal I can't help you.
Comparing The US to Portugal is beyond ridiculous.
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And this all effects the change in the rate of drug use post decriminalization how?

I have already provided the Wickersham report which refutes your claim on alcohol usage, yet you still hold to it, and then use it as a foundation to expand upon.

How about Great Britain, are they still to foreign for your ethnocentric tastes?

British Crime Survey statistics showed that the proportion of 16- to 24-year-olds using cannabis slumped from 28% a decade ago to 21% now, with its declining popularity accelerating after the decision to downgrade the drug to class C was announced in January 2004.
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Cannabis use down since legal change | Society | The Guardian

or here all US:

"In sum, there is little evidence that decriminalization of marijuana use necessarily leads to a substantial increase in marijuana use."
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- National Academy of Sciences, Institute of Medicine (IOM). 1999

Marijuana and Medicine: Assessing the Science Base

"There is no strong evidence that decriminalization affects either the choice or frequency of use of drugs, either legal (alcohol) or illegal (marijuana and cocaine)."
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- C. Thies and C. Register. 1993

"The available evidence indicates that the decriminalization of marijuana possession had little or no impact on rates of use.
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- E. Single. 1989. The Impact of Marijuana Decriminalization: An Update. Journal of Public Health 10: 456-466

"Overall, the preponderance of the evidence which we have gathered and examined points to the conclusion that decriminalization has had virtually no effect either on the marijuana use or on related attitudes and beliefs about marijuana use among American young people.
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-- L. Johnson et al. 1981. Marijuana Decriminalization: The Impact on Youth 1975-1980. Monitoring the Future, Occasional Paper Series, paper 13, Institute for Social Research, University of Michigan: Ann Arbor.

I could go on, but I think that is more than enough evidence to counter your unsubstantiated bull**** claims.
 
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reefedjib said:
Evidence to support you claim? You have none. Mere speculation. Whereas we have studies that show there is no appreciable increase in usage when decriminalizing or legalizing.
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Evidence to support your claim? Portugal?
Compare it to alcohol not other countries.
When US corporate farms start producing pot in bulk it will become as popular as Mountain Dew.


From the article:

Lifetime heroin use among 16-to-18-year-olds fell from 2.5% to 1.8% (although there was a slight increase in marijuana use in that age group)

Read more: Drugs in Portugal: Did Decriminalization Work? - TIME

There is the proof that pot use increased after legalization.
 
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USA-1 said:
Evidence to support your claim? Portugal?
Compare it to alcohol not other countries.
When US corporate farms start producing pot in bulk it will become as popular as Mountain Dew.
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Good, more jackasses need to be stoned so they're not as much of a jackass.
 
USA-1 said:
Evidence to support your claim? Portugal?
Compare it to alcohol not other countries.
When US corporate farms start producing pot in bulk it will become as popular as Mountain Dew.


From the article:

Lifetime heroin use among 16-to-18-year-olds fell from 2.5% to 1.8% (although there was a slight increase in marijuana use in that age group)

Read more: Drugs in Portugal: Did Decriminalization Work? - TIME

There is the proof that pot use increased after legalization.
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Slight increase. Big ****ing deal.
 
reefedjib said:
Slight increase. Big ****ing deal.
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It increased. That is all the matters. It did not drop like you falsely claimed. You asked for proof that drug use would rise for young people. I gave it to you, now you say "big deal". Pathetic.
 
USA-1 said:
It increased. That is all the matters. It did not drop like you falsely claimed. You asked for proof that drug use would rise for young people. I gave it to you, now you say "big deal". Pathetic.
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I said hard drug use decreased. I said there was no appreciable increase in use of marijuana.

You are rude. ignored.
 
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Dittohead not! said:
Are you seriously trying to argue that American youth don't have access to drugs now?

Wouldn't it be just a little bit better if pot were being sold by someone with an incentive to check ID?
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Not to mention an incentive to make sure it isn't laced with something dangerous.
 
USA-1 said:
From the article:

Lifetime heroin use among 16-to-18-year-olds fell from 2.5% to 1.8% (although there was a slight increase in marijuana use in that age group)

Read more: Drugs in Portugal: Did Decriminalization Work? - TIME

There is the proof that pot use increased after legalization.
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Oh yeah, that increase must have been due to decriminalization. I mean, there couldn't possibly be any other explanation, especially considering the other facts surrounding that snippet:

Following decriminalization, Portugal had the lowest rate of lifetime marijuana use in people over 15 in the E.U.: 10%. The most comparable figure in America is in people over 12: 39.8%. Proportionally, more Americans have used cocaine than Portuguese have used marijuana.

 The Cato paper reports that between 2001 and 2006 in Portugal, rates of lifetime use of any illegal drug among seventh through ninth graders fell from 14.1% to 10.6%; drug use in older teens also declined. Lifetime heroin use among 16-to-18-year-olds fell from 2.5% to 1.8% (although there was a slight increase in marijuana use in that age group).

New HIV infections in drug users fell by 17% between 1999 and 2003, and deaths related to heroin and similar drugs were cut by more than half. In addition, the number of people on methadone and buprenorphine treatment for drug addiction rose to 14,877 from 6,040, after decriminalization, and money saved on enforcement allowed for increased funding of drug-free treatment as well.
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So following drug decriminalization in Portugal:

- Lowest EU rate of lifetime MJ use in people over 15.
- More Americans have used cocaine than Portuguese have used MJ.
- Lifetime use of heroin decreased decreased by almost 1%.
- Lifetime use of all drugs among 7-9th grade decreased by almost 4%.
- Deaths related to hard drugs decreased by more than 50%.

But a slight increase in MJ use among 16-18 y/o? OMG that must be due to decriminalization. Forget these other facts, decriminalization must be responsible for the increase in MJ use among 16-18 y/o. There's just no other explanation! :roll:

Cherry pick much?
​
 
Dittohead not! said:
Are you seriously trying to argue that American youth don't have access to drugs now?

Wouldn't it be just a little bit better if pot were being sold by someone with an incentive to check ID?
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Of Course they do. But if pot were sold legally like beer, it would be infinitely easier for them to get and they would be smokin pot like they're drinkin beer now. Plus it's a lot easier to hide a joint then a twelve pack.

Capitalism would take over the pot industry. Corporate farms and their labs would produce the most potent sh*t ever. It would be high quality and plentiful. It is easier to manufacture than liquor or beer and economies of scale would force prices to drop like a rock. It would be marketed like Coca Cola or Marlboros. It would be a growth industry kind of like a combination of the alcohol and tobacco industry.

If they do legalize pot I will grow it in my garden and try to make a few bucks.
 
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