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Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous grounds

Should B&B owners be allowed to refuse gay couples?

  • Yes, they should be allowed to refuse anyone for any reason

    Votes: 48 59.3%

  • The should be allowed to refuse if it violates their religious beliefs

    Votes: 2 2.5%

  • They should be fined for discriminating against gays

    Votes: 11 13.6%

  • They should lose their B&B license for discriminating against gays

    Votes: 14 17.3%

  • Other, please explain

    Votes: 6 7.4%
  • Total voters
    81
Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

Vader said:
1. The owner of the property DOES NOT have the right to discriminate based on sexual orientation.
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Why not? Does he own the property or not?
 
Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

Gander said:
Why not? Does he own the property or not?
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WTF? Have you been reading this thread or not? We've dealt with the whole private-public-commercial property issue. Always best to read a thread before one-lining something that's been dealt with already.
 
Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

Andalublue said:
WTF? Have you been reading this thread or not? We've dealt with the whole private-public-commercial property issue. Always best to read a thread before one-lining something that's been dealt with already.
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No, it was never 'dealt with' at all. No one sufficiently explained why someone loses property rights when they open a business on their private property.
 
Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

rivrrat said:
No, it was never 'dealt with' at all. No one sufficiently explained why someone loses property rights when they open a business on their private property.
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because its law, they open their business to the public and as such should obey the laws in place, whether those laws are right or wrong is subjective and irrelevant.
 
Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

spud_meister said:
because its law, they open their business to the public and as such should obey the laws in place, whether those laws are right or wrong is subjective and irrelevant.
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No, actually what we were discussing is that the laws should be changed. So, the fact that it's illegal is irrelevant. It should NOT be illegal and no one has given sufficient reason why it should be illegal other than "people shouldn't be allowed to be big meanies"
 
Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

rivrrat said:
No, actually what we were discussing is that the laws should be changed. So, the fact that it's illegal is irrelevant. It should NOT be illegal and no one has given sufficient reason why it should be illegal other than "people shouldn't be allowed to be big meanies"
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Lacking the freedom to do something that has zero hindrance on your ability to properly and freely run your business in a profit orientated manner does not matter to anyone who is busy running a business.
 
Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

rivrrat said:
No, actually what we were discussing is that the laws should be changed. So, the fact that it's illegal is irrelevant. It should NOT be illegal and no one has given sufficient reason why it should be illegal other than "people shouldn't be allowed to be big meanies"
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Right.

Just like when the government tried to tell all those people that they had to allow black people to sit in the front of the bus and use the same water cooler. I mean, just because the Constitution says no discrimination doesn't mean we should obey it!
 
Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

Goldenboy219 said:
Lacking the freedom to do something that has zero hindrance on your ability to properly and freely run your business in a profit orientated manner does not matter to anyone who is busy running a business.
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Has nothing to do with running the business.
 
Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

Groucho said:
Right.

Just like when the government tried to tell all those people that they had to allow black people to sit in the front of the bus and use the same water cooler. I mean, just because the Constitution says no discrimination doesn't mean we should obey it!
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Talking about private property, not the government.

So yes, if a private bus company wants to make white people sit at the back of the bus, they should be allowed to do so. And if a business establishment wants to have separate water fountains for blondes and redheads and brunettes, they should be allowed to do so.
 
Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

rivrrat said:
Talking about private property, not the government.

So yes, if a private bus company wants to make white people sit at the back of the bus, they should be allowed to do so. And if a business establishment wants to have separate water fountains for blondes and redheads and brunettes, they should be allowed to do so.
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Yes, Rivrrat, we have been all around the houses with this one. I didn't convince you (how could anyone?) and you certainly didn't convince me.

If you want to sail the same waters over and over again, go right ahead. There may be a new generation of thread posters who haven't heard your labyrithine, 'libertarian' reasoning before. Knock yourself out.
 
Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

Andalublue said:
Yes, Rivrrat, we have been all around the houses with this one. I didn't convince you (how could anyone?) and you certainly didn't convince me.

If you want to sail the same waters over and over again, go right ahead. There may be a new generation of thread posters who haven't heard your labyrithine, 'libertarian' reasoning before. Knock yourself out.
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Until someone comes up with a legitimate reason why people shouldn't be allowed to discriminate on their own property, I WILL continue to do so.
 
Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

rivrrat said:
Until someone comes up with a legitimate reason why people shouldn't be allowed to discriminate on their own property, I WILL continue to do so.
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Good for you! You go grrrl!
 
Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

rivrrat said:
Talking about private property, not the government.

So yes, if a private bus company wants to make white people sit at the back of the bus, they should be allowed to do so. And if a business establishment wants to have separate water fountains for blondes and redheads and brunettes, they should be allowed to do so.
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I am so glad that your vision of a "perfect America" is only shared by a few extreme libertarians and racists.
 
Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

rivrrat said:
Has nothing to do with running the business.
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What is the title of the thread?
 
Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

Groucho said:
I am so glad that your vision of a "perfect America" is only shared by a few extreme libertarians and racists.
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Has nothing to do with race.

Has everything to do with personal property rights. And yes, in my perfect America, a person can do as they wish with their private property. It's too bad so many people feel that the government's job is to control everyone, down to who they are forced to allow onto their own ****ing property.
 
Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

Goldenboy219 said:
What is the title of the thread?
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What's that got to do with anything?

The reason a person should be allowed to discriminate on their own property has nothing to do with business profit motive.
 
Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

rivrrat said:
What's that got to do with anything?

The reason a person should be allowed to discriminate on their own property has nothing to do with business profit motive.
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There is a considerable difference between a private place (as in your home, a club, your personal land) and public places that are "open to the public".

You may correct me if i am wrong, but the title of this thread was not, "should a homeowner be allowed to refuse gay couples on religious grounds"
 
Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

Goldenboy219 said:
There is a considerable difference between a private place (as in your home, a club, your personal land) and public places that are "open to the public".

You may correct me if i am wrong, but the title of this thread was not, "should a homeowner be allowed to refuse gay couples on religious grounds"
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Is that property owned by an individual or not? It is private property. It is THEIR property. It is THEIR business. The property and everything on it belongs to them. They choose to open it to the public they wish to allow onto their property. It should not be 'all or nothing'. The property is theirs, whether there is a business on it or not. So why should they lose the right to disallow whomever they wish just because they're making money off of the property?
 
Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

rivrrat said:
Is that property owned by an individual or not? It is private property. It is THEIR property. It is THEIR business. The property and everything on it belongs to them.
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Why can they deny people entry after hours of operation? Same premise; it functions as a business. In fact, legally you are able to throw out blacks, jews, gays, whites, asians, women, etc... if you can legally justify their presence as hindering your profitability.

So with that in mind, my comment is rather consistent (financially speaking and legally) while your again resides on the premise of, "i do what i want".

They choose to open it to the public they wish to allow onto their property. It should not be 'all or nothing'. The property is theirs, whether there is a business on it or not. So why should they lose the right to disallow whomever they wish just because they're making money off of the property?
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They are opening their property in a commercial manner. But alas you get it. They are perfectly free in their right to make it a "club" with "strict admittance requirements".
 
Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

Goldenboy219 said:
Why can they deny people entry after hours of operation? Same premise; it functions as a business. In fact, legally you are able to throw out blacks, jews, gays, whites, asians, women, etc... if you can legally justify their presence as hindering your profitability.
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If it's done on the premise of race, religion, sexual orientation, ect .... no, you cannot.

So with that in mind, you comment is consistantly incorrect a quite likely to land you in court.

Goldenboy219 said:
They are opening their property in a commercial manner. But alas you get it. They are perfectly free in their right to make it a "club" with "strict admittance requirements".
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WRONG.

They CANNOT make rules which disallow membership based on race, color, religion, or sexual orientation. That is a violation of the Civil Rights Act of 1963.

You are mistaken.
 
Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

rivrrat said:
Has nothing to do with race.
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With you, I agree. However, there certainly are plenty of racists who want to discriminate on the basis of their bigotry and not from any desire for a smaller government.

The problem is that your definition of "private property" is so broad that it would include a private bus company, a private airline, and every single business that is privately owned. The law, however, holds that once you open your property to the public at large it is no longer "private."

As pointed out earlier, if you want to open a business that is available only to those you invite in (like a club) you can discriminate. If you want the benefits of being a member of the United States of America (such as obtaining business from American citizens) then you have to go by the rules of THAT club instead.
 
Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

Vader said:
If it's done on the premise of race, religion, sexual orientation, ect .... no, you cannot.

So with that in mind, you comment is consistantly incorrect a quite likely to land you in court.



WRONG.

They CANNOT make rules which disallow membership based on race, color, religion, or sexual orientation. That is a violation of the Civil Rights Act of 1963.

You are mistaken.
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Yes, they can. There are a number of single sex health clubs that exist quite legally. As well they should.

Oh the horror of discrimination. :roll:
 
Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

Vader said:
They CANNOT make rules which disallow membership based on race, color, religion, or sexual orientation. That is a violation of the Civil Rights Act of 1963.

You are mistaken.
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No, I think they can. A Catholic organization, for instance, can keep out atheists and Jews if they want; an Irish-American group can make, as its requirement, that you be Irish-American.

If these groups open a business, however, then they can't put up signs saying "No Jews may enter."
 
Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

Andalublue said:
WTF? Have you been reading this thread or not? We've dealt with the whole private-public-commercial property issue. Always best to read a thread before one-lining something that's been dealt with already.
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I didn't have time to read through the entire thread, sorry. I gave my opinion and responded to Vader when he challenged that opinion. I don't see a substantive philosophical difference between commercial private property and residential private property; both are the net result of a sovereign individual's labor and life; on what basis would you deny a sovereign individual his or her right to manage their private property, whether it be commercial or residential?
 
Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

Groucho said:
No, I think they can. A Catholic organization, for instance, can keep out atheists and Jews if they want; an Irish-American group can make, as its requirement, that you be Irish-American.

If these groups open a business, however, then they can't put up signs saying "No Jews may enter."
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I'm pretty sure that is the same in the UK. That is why I suggested a couple of time they started a Christian only B & B or found another job.

Of course Christian gays would still be able to prosecute if they wanted.
 
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