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Would you support a 'rape exception' to a government ban on elective abortions?

Would you support a 'rape exception' to a government ban on elective abortions?


  • Total voters
    34
I don't understand what you're saying.

What you said here:

That said,... do you not agree that the longer the woman waits to report the rape (talking weeks not minutes here),... the more she 'consents' to the conditions of her pregnancy?

Implies that you believe she would somehow be aware she was pregnant immediately following the rape.

That's not what I'm saying at all.

I am only trying to stress the importance of reporting a rape as soon as possible (as in many cases the pregnancy can be prevented). And I am also trying to remain to the legal precidents that say the longer someone waits to report a crime,.. the more they own the consequences.

It's the same for if your home is burgularized and you wait a month to report it,... You may still get a police report,... but it wouldn't be the same as if you reported it immediately and gave the cops a chance to find the burgular still in the area.
 
That's not what I'm saying at all.

I am only trying to stress the importance of reporting a rape as soon as possible (as in many cases the pregnancy can be prevented). And I am also trying to remain to the legal precidents that say the longer someone waits to report a crime,.. the more they own the consequences.

It's the same for if your home is burgularized and you wait a month to report it,... You may still get a police report,... but it wouldn't be the same as if you reported it immediately and gave the cops a chance to find the burgular still in the area.

Most women never report their rape, for very good reasons. In your little hypothetical, the only reason such a woman would even consider reporting their rape would be in the case of a pregnancy, which she is not going to be aware of for a month or more.
 
The child did not rape the woman and going through the pregnancy is not going to end the mother's life.

I agree.

The child is not (sexually) raping the woman in this example. But it is using her body against her will,... placing her life, health and well being in danger,... and it's doing so as a result of no fault of either the woman's nor the child's actions.

That's not the case in an act of consentual sex that results in a pregnancy.

As far as the expectation that the pregnancy is not going to "end the mother's life?"

Her right to defend herself is not predicated on the fact or certainty of death. She has a right to protect herself from being "seized" by another in any way,.... UNLESS she consented.

Once she consents,.. she waves her rights to expel them (within reason) and unless they violate her rights in another way,... She has to live with the consequence of the choice she made.
 
Most women never report their rape, for very good reasons. In your little hypothetical, the only reason such a woman would even consider reporting their rape would be in the case of a pregnancy, which she is not going to be aware of for a month or more.

Logistics like these need to be worked through with education, support systems, encouragments, higher penalties for attackers, etc.

However,.. a need to address these situations does not change the basis or principles for the position.
 
Logistics like these need to be worked through with education, support systems, encouragments, higher penalties for attackers, etc.
None of those things would address the reasons why we don't report rapes.

However,.. a need to address these situations does not change the basis or principles for the position.
Actually, it does. Since you're saying that they're somehow consenting to a pregnancy they're unaware of just by way of not subjecting themselves to further humiliation by reporting their rape.
 
None of those things would address the reasons why we don't report rapes.

I know there are many reasons, Rivrrat. I have more than one family member who has been raped. One of them brutally.

Whatever your reasons are,... they are secondary to the issue I'm asking about in this poll.
 
However,.. a need to address these situations does not change the basis or principles for the position.

Actually, it does. Since you're saying that they're somehow consenting to a pregnancy they're unaware of just by way of not subjecting themselves to further humiliation by reporting their rape.

OK,.. I see what you are getting at,... and I didn't mean to imply this at all.

To your point,.. if a woman is raped and for whatever reason does not want to report it. I wish she would report it,... but that's her right not to.

We ok so far?

Going forward,... when she DOES realize she's pregnant,... and especially if she doesn't think she can carry her attackers child to term,... she needs to report it sooner rather than later.

Does that help clarify?
 
OK,.. I see what you are getting at,... and I didn't mean to imply this at all.

To your point,.. if a woman is raped and for whatever reason does not want to report it. I wish she would report it,... but that's her right not to.

We ok so far?

Going forward,... when she DOES realize she's pregnant,... and especially if she doesn't think she can carry her attackers child to term,... she needs to report it sooner rather than later.

Does that help clarify?

Chuz, I do not think you are completely grasping the complexity of the psychological aspects of rape. Even IF the woman realizes she is pregnant and wants to abort, this has nothing to do with the trauma of reporting the rape. Your phrase, "needs to report it, sooner rather than later" is not dependent on YOUR opinion, but on her psychological state. She "needs" to report it if and when she is ready to report it.
 
Chuz, I do not think you are completely grasping the complexity of the psychological aspects of rape. Even IF the woman realizes she is pregnant and wants to abort, this has nothing to do with the trauma of reporting the rape. Your phrase, "needs to report it, sooner rather than later" is not dependent on YOUR opinion, but on her psychological state. She "needs" to report it if and when she is ready to report it.

This is what I am talking about;

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Implied_consent"]Implied Consent;[/ame] "Implied consent is a form of consent which is not expressly granted by a person, but rather inferred from a person's actions and the facts and circumstances of a particular situation (or in some cases, by a person's silence or inaction). "
 
I know there are many reasons, Rivrrat. I have more than one family member who has been raped. One of them brutally.

Sorry to hear that. That may help explain your beliefs about rape. It does not, however, explain why you think women shouldn't have a choice to abort for any other reason. You never quite explain that, even when asked repeatedly. You always have an excuse. I think I know why.
 
Sorry to hear that. That may help explain your beliefs about rape. It does not, however, explain why you think women shouldn't have a choice to abort for any other reason. You never quite explain that, even when asked repeatedly. You always have an excuse. I think I know why.

For as many times as you ask this, the answer will be the same.

Understanding "consent" is the key to understanding the differences between a rape pregnancy and the (woman's rights to abort to guard her life) and a non rape pregnancy where she (consented to) the act and placed the child into harms way HERSELF, by way of her own actions.
 
I've always felt that the issue of abortion is incredibly revealing of people's psychological states. The fact is that we have a limited degree of control over another person's thoughts, actions, behaviors, ethics.

I used to be extremely anti-abortion, because to me, the ethics of killing an unborn child are clear. I could never do it, personally. I've been confronted with an unplanned pregnancy and chose to go through with it (though it ended in miscarriage at 12 weeks...which was terrible).

But, having said that...why exactly would abortion foes WANT a woman to carry through with a pregnancy she does not want? What exactly is the benefit of forcing a woman to carry a child that she doesn't want to have? What is the benefit TO THAT CHILD? I've worked with quite a lot of kids who probably should never have been born. Some of them are still in prison and will be in prison for the rest of their lives.

I sometimes wonder what our world would be like if abortion foes dedicated their time and energy to ensure that every child is a wanted child and that every child has a safe and secure home, good education, and hopeful future.

It would be a very different place.

I sometimes wonder what world they are trying to create inside the uterus of another person.
 
For as many times as you ask this, the answer will be the same.

I noticed.

Understanding "consent" is the key to understanding the differences between a rape pregnancy and the (woman's rights to abort to guard her life) and a non rape pregnancy where she (consented to) the act and placed the child into harms way HERSELF, by way of her own actions.

If you can't answer the question, leave the thread. It's annoying.
 
I've always felt that the issue of abortion is incredibly revealing of people's psychological states. The fact is that we have a limited degree of control over another person's thoughts, actions, behaviors, ethics.

I used to be extremely anti-abortion, because to me, the ethics of killing an unborn child are clear. I could never do it, personally. I've been confronted with an unplanned pregnancy and chose to go through with it (though it ended in miscarriage at 12 weeks...which was terrible).

But, having said that...why exactly would abortion foes WANT a woman to carry through with a pregnancy she does not want? What exactly is the benefit of forcing a woman to carry a child that she doesn't want to have? What is the benefit TO THAT CHILD? I've worked with quite a lot of kids who probably should never have been born. Some of them are still in prison and will be in prison for the rest of their lives.

I sometimes wonder what our world would be like if abortion foes dedicated their time and energy to ensure that every child is a wanted child and that every child has a safe and secure home, good education, and hopeful future.

It would be a very different place.

I sometimes wonder what world they are trying to create inside the uterus of another person.

How is this post not intended to derail this thread?
 
If you can't comprehend or appreciate the answer,... maybe YOU should leave.

You have offered no answer. Even on the thread you asked me to start.

No answer whatsoever to a very simply question.
 
I've always felt that the issue of abortion is incredibly revealing of people's psychological states. The fact is that we have a limited degree of control over another person's thoughts, actions, behaviors, ethics.

I used to be extremely anti-abortion, because to me, the ethics of killing an unborn child are clear. I could never do it, personally. I've been confronted with an unplanned pregnancy and chose to go through with it (though it ended in miscarriage at 12 weeks...which was terrible).

But, having said that...why exactly would abortion foes WANT a woman to carry through with a pregnancy she does not want? What exactly is the benefit of forcing a woman to carry a child that she doesn't want to have? What is the benefit TO THAT CHILD? I've worked with quite a lot of kids who probably should never have been born. Some of them are still in prison and will be in prison for the rest of their lives.

I sometimes wonder what our world would be like if abortion foes dedicated their time and energy to ensure that every child is a wanted child and that every child has a safe and secure home, good education, and hopeful future.

It would be a very different place.

I sometimes wonder what world they are trying to create inside the uterus of another person.

This is exactly how I feel. Abortion is something that should be avoided whenever possible but I cannot support a ban on it until society does more for people after they come out of the womb. Right now if people don't do well in life, a good portion of the population ignores very real social problems and often blames the victim. Is that person any better off having been born?
 
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You have offered no answer. Even on the thread you asked me to start.

No answer whatsoever to a very simply question.

I have provided the answers. You just don't like the answer provided.

That's your problem. Not mine.

No-one else seems to have the problem comprehending my posts that you do.
 
I have provided the answers. You just don't like the answer provided.

That's your problem. Not mine.

No-one else seems to have the problem comprehending my posts that you do.

You haven't provided an answer - not a straight one. And many others agree with me.
 
This is exactly how I feel. Abortion is something that should be avoided whenever possible but I cannot support a ban on it until society does more for people after they come out of the womb. Right now if people don't do well in life, a good portion of the population ignores very real social problems and often blames the victim. Is that person any better off having been born?

And now, the basement mod's attempt to derail the thread is fool swing.
 
But, having said that...why exactly would abortion foes WANT a woman to carry through with a pregnancy she does not want? What exactly is the benefit of forcing a woman to carry a child that she doesn't want to have? What is the benefit TO THAT CHILD? I've worked with quite a lot of kids who probably should never have been born. Some of them are still in prison and will be in prison for the rest of their lives.

I would imagine it would be to save the life of the child. Perhaps you've worked with kids who "should never have been born"; but less you can identify that in the womb you'd have to take innocent life as innocent life and not cast judgment till that child grew up and made decisions and actions. Before that, there's not much to say. There's a lot of people I don't think should reproduce...basically anyone without a doctorate. But I don't really get to say who can't live; so most people are ok. I can't say "well statistically, you're going to have some amount of chance to commit a crime possibly in the future so I'm just gonna take you out now". Doesn't make much sense. Shouldn't be able to punish people for possible future crimes.
 
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