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If republicans get a significant majority will they repeal Obama health care reform?

If republicans get a significant majority will they repeal Obama health care reform?


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Re: If republicans get a significant majority will they repeal Obama health care refo

Even when you get sick, there's nothing forcing you to participate in the health insurance market.

If you're worried about people being freeloaders by waiting until they're sick before taking advantage of the insurance regulations, then that sounds like a problem with the way the insurance regulations are drafted.

Yes - and the bill added some new regulations to fix that.
 
Re: If republicans get a significant majority will they repeal Obama health care refo

Yes - and the bill added some new regulations to fix that.

How exactly did the bill fix that problem? From my understanding, a healthy 25 year old earning 60k can either choose to pay several thousand a year for health insurance or simply pay a $695 penalty. If he chooses to pay that penalty each year and then 4 or 5 years later finds out that he has cancer, he can then turn around and get insurance through the exchange at a price subsidized primarily by the government.

From my perspective, that seems like a fairly strong incentive to freeload.
 
Re: If republicans get a significant majority will they repeal Obama health care refo

I don't think they'll repeal it at all. I think they'll try to refine what's already signed into law, but I don't think they'll repeal it for this reason:

Republicans talk a mean talk, but they'd look like hypocrites by saying that they understand the need for health care reform and yet they take the one piece of legistation that does that off the roles just so they can move forward with their own agenda thus taking this country through another 100 year long debate on the matter. No! That would be political suicide no matter what you think of the current health care bill!! They'd only be doing something to support their base, but the rest of the country won't stand for it! Mark my words, if Republicans do win back Congress and try to repeal the health care bill, they won't be in office long.
 
Re: If republicans get a significant majority will they repeal Obama health care refo

The problem with this model is factoring in individual responsibility for lifestyle choices. Should a clean living, non-smoking occasional drinker, who eats a healthy diet, is optimal weight, and exercises regularly, have to pay higher rates for a open heart bypass surgery for an obese smoker who eats at McDonalds regularly and never exercises?

No. I didn't say they should have to all pay the same rates, just that the rate should be more than zero (not participating at all).
 
Re: If republicans get a significant majority will they repeal Obama health care refo

How exactly did the bill fix that problem? From my understanding, a healthy 25 year old earning 60k can either choose to pay several thousand a year for health insurance or simply pay a $695 penalty.

It's not that simple, but I don't think a healthy 25-year-old would be charged "several thousand dollars" for insurance.
 
Re: If republicans get a significant majority will they repeal Obama health care refo

This is no different than Medicare and SS.. once in, repealing it is unthinkable, that will now be political suicide, although modifying it is possible, and in some cases that can be welcomed and needed.
Smart minds think alike. :mrgreen:
 
Re: If republicans get a significant majority will they repeal Obama health care refo

No. I didn't say they should have to all pay the same rates, just that the rate should be more than zero (not participating at all).

My choice is to choose a policy with a high deductible, since I have absolutely no health problems and intend to keep it that way, to the best of my ability. I only need it for major medical.

What I don't want is to be thrown in with the rest of America, which is overweight, eats crap, and doesn't exercise. Also, I reject some of what standard medicine does, and definitely believe in Holistic alternatives and Holistic lifestyles.

I resent, then, the Federal government forcing me to participate in a system that is at odds with my personal beliefs, that mainly benefits those who abuse their bodies with poor lifestyle choices.
 
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Re: If republicans get a significant majority will they repeal Obama health care refo

Well most of the taxes are from Democrats and all of it goes to lazy people and dumb things Obama thinks he should spend it on. And the Health care is just another excuse for him to get more money.

What kills me about a mentality like this is how those who opposed health care reform would complain about it's cost, yet no one wanted to raise taxes - ANYWHERE, ON ANYBODY - yet the measure was suppose to pay for itself.

Look, government will always shuffle money around; we all know this. But in the case of this legistlation it had to be paid for somehow, but how exactly was that to be done?

Tax the people? Nope, not in a recession and certainly when you have no idea what the nation's economy will look like 3, 4, 5 years from now.

Tax the rich? Well, since most are very capable of writing a check to a charitable organization or even worse - pay for their own health care out of pocket, I don't think they'll have a problem paying a tax on premium health insurance. In fact, I've heard more celebraties and the supper rich like Warren Buffet say he has no problem paying more in taxes if it meant giving the nation's poorest an opportunity to have access to better health care coverage if any at all.

Take big business? Well, maybe, but that's only for those who don't provide adequate health care coverage to their employees. Make no mistake: this was targetted at companies like WalMart who purposely keep some of their employees below 40-Hr work weeks just to avoid providing health coverage. I know some people from my local church who work at Walmart and other retail stores who complain about this tactic all the time...cut hours to 28-Hrs or give employees as much as 35-Hrs just so they don't count as full-time employment, and thus...no health care for you Ms. Parker, single mother w/3 little mouths to feed.

People just need to step outside their own situations to see where the real needs are in this country as well as witness the buplicity of it all. I was like some people here...didn't think there was any problem at all w/this nation's health care system...until I started experiencing the underhanded tactics myself via members of my family. Now, my eyes are wide open! You better recognize, fool!
 
Re: If republicans get a significant majority will they repeal Obama health care refo

Until just before (but not just after) you get sick. This makes you a freeloader.

We simply can't sustain our health system when only sick people are paying into it. Insurance can't work without healthy people in the pool. That's just the way it is. If you want there to be insurance around when you get old and more likely to get sick, you need to start paying for it now.

:rofl This sounds like the social security ponzi scheme.

Young, healthy individuals are paying thousands of taxpayer dollars every year to fund an already bankrupt government program that won't be around long enough to "help" when current young adults get old and sick.

ObamaCare is similar because it's basically taking all of the other government health care ponzi scheme's, and combining them to create one massive debt creating system of socialized health care. Whose to say ObamaCare will be around long enough to give rationed care to young adults, who will pay heavily in taxes their whole life, when they turn old?

Socialism is great on paper, until you run out of other people's money. That's the problem with social security, too. Just like ObamaCare will become, it's a big ponzi scheme.
 
Re: If republicans get a significant majority will they repeal Obama health care refo

My choice is to choose a policy with a high deductible, since I have absolutely no health problems and intend to keep it that way, to the best of my ability. I only need it for major medical.

What I don't want is to be thrown in with the rest of America, which is overweight, eats crap, and doesn't exercise. Also, I reject some of what standard medicine does, and definitely believe in Holistic alternatives and Holistic lifestyles.

I resent, then, the Federal government forcing me to participate in a system that is at odds with my personal beliefs, that mainly benefits those who abuse their bodies with poor lifestyle choices.

You can still choose a high deductible, low-rate policy under this law.
 
Re: If republicans get a significant majority will they repeal Obama health care refo

:rofl This sounds like the social security ponzi scheme.

Young, healthy individuals are paying thousands of taxpayer dollars every year to fund an already bankrupt government program that won't be around long enough to "help" when current young adults get old and sick.

ObamaCare is similar because it's basically taking all of the other government health care ponzi scheme's, and combining them to create one massive debt creating system of socialized health care. Whose to say ObamaCare will be around long enough to give rationed care to young adults, who will pay heavily in taxes their whole life, when they turn old?

Socialism is great on paper, until you run out of other people's money. That's the problem with social security, too. Just like ObamaCare will become, it's a big ponzi scheme.

Uh, no, it's insurance. This is how insurance works. Obamacare is not like SS, it buys people private insurance policies.

Yes, insurance is basically socialist. I'll bet you have some though.
 
Re: If republicans get a significant majority will they repeal Obama health care refo

So you think the GOP should just cave in and allow the Democrats to keep shredding the Constitution??

I'll ask again, what part of the Constitution has been "shredded" concerning this health care legistlation? You can argue the process bywhich it became law, but I watched most of the voting on C-SPAN covering both the rules process and both sides seem to agree faily evenly on how to go about going through the voting (rules) process. So, explain how the Constitution was viola
Only until Blue Cross/Blue shield get forced out of business and we'll all be forced to take gubmint healthcare.

Unrealistic expectation. BC/BS of Alabama is a major monopoly here. No way do they go under from this health care bill.ted?
 
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Re: If republicans get a significant majority will they repeal Obama health care refo

Only until Blue Cross/Blue shield get forced out of business and we'll all be forced to take gubmint healthcare.

Sorry, dude, but they dropped the public option, so that ridiculous objection is gone. Try the next one on your list.
 
Re: If republicans get a significant majority will they repeal Obama health care refo

You can still choose a high deductible, low-rate policy under this law.

I'm glad to hear that.
 
Re: If republicans get a significant majority will they repeal Obama health care refo

Listening to some of the talk show host they seem to be under the impression that this will cost a lot of democrats their seats and somehow the republicans will repeal this. So I decided to ask ask this question-

If republicans get a significant majority will they repeal Obama health care reform?


I say no. I think a lot of these politicians say one thing and do another for votes.

I am gonna vote yes on this because one can always hope.
 
Re: If republicans get a significant majority will they repeal Obama health care refo

I'll ask again, what part of the Constitution has been "shredded" concerning this health care legistlation?

It seems to be centered around the issue of whether or not the federal government has the authority to force people to buy a specific product or not.
 
Re: If republicans get a significant majority will they repeal Obama health care refo

Interesting fact - the law that just passed contains a large justification for the insurance requirement section right there in the law. They obviously anticipated this debate:

SEC. 1501. REQUIREMENT TO MAINTAIN MINIMUM ESSENTIAL COVERAGE.

(a) Findings- Congress makes the following findings:

(1) IN GENERAL- The individual responsibility requirement provided for in this section (in this subsection referred to as the `requirement') is commercial and economic in nature, and substantially affects interstate commerce, as a result of the effects described in paragraph (2).

(2) EFFECTS ON THE NATIONAL ECONOMY AND INTERSTATE COMMERCE- The effects described in this paragraph are the following:

(A) The requirement regulates activity that is commercial and economic in nature: economic and financial decisions about how and when health care is paid for, and when health insurance is purchased.

(B) Health insurance and health care services are a significant part of the national economy. National health spending is projected to increase from $2,500,000,000,000, or 17.6 percent of the economy, in 2009 to $4,700,000,000,000 in 2019. Private health insurance spending is projected to be $854,000,000,000 in 2009, and pays for medical supplies, drugs, and equipment that are shipped in interstate commerce. Since most health insurance is sold by national or regional health insurance companies, health insurance is sold in interstate commerce and claims payments flow through interstate commerce.

(C) The requirement, together with the other provisions of this Act, will add millions of new consumers to the health insurance market, increasing the supply of, and demand for, health care services. According to the Congressional Budget Office, the requirement will increase the number and share of Americans who are insured.

(D) The requirement achieves near-universal coverage by building upon and strengthening the private employer-based health insurance system, which covers 176,000,000 Americans nationwide. In Massachusetts, a similar requirement has strengthened private employer-based coverage: despite the economic downturn, the number of workers offered employer-based coverage has actually increased.

(E) Half of all personal bankruptcies are caused in part by medical expenses. By significantly increasing health insurance coverage, the requirement, together with the other provisions of this Act, will improve financial security for families.

(F) Under the Employee Retirement Income Security Act of 1974 (29 U.S.C. 1001 et seq.), the Public Health Service Act (42 U.S.C. 201 et seq.), and this Act, the Federal Government has a significant role in regulating health insurance which is in interstate commerce.

(G) Under sections 2704 and 2705 of the Public Health Service Act (as added by section 1201 of this Act), if there were no requirement, many individuals would wait to purchase health insurance until they needed care. By significantly increasing health insurance coverage, the requirement, together with the other provisions of this Act, will minimize this adverse selection and broaden the health insurance risk pool to include healthy individuals, which will lower health insurance premiums. The requirement is essential to creating effective health insurance markets in which improved health insurance products that are guaranteed issue and do not exclude coverage of pre-existing conditions can be sold.

(H) Administrative costs for private health insurance, which were $90,000,000,000 in 2006, are 26 to 30 percent of premiums in the current individual and small group markets. By significantly increasing health insurance coverage and the size of purchasing pools, which will increase economies of scale, the requirement, together with the other provisions of this Act, will significantly reduce administrative costs and lower health insurance premiums. The requirement is essential to creating effective health insurance markets that do not require underwriting and eliminate its associated administrative costs.

(3) SUPREME COURT RULING- In United States v. South-Eastern Underwriters Association (322 U.S. 533 (1944)), the Supreme Court of the United States ruled that insurance is interstate commerce subject to Federal regulation.
 
Re: If republicans get a significant majority will they repeal Obama health care refo

Interesting fact - the law that just passed contains a large justification for the insurance requirement section right there in the law. They obviously anticipated this debate:

Yeah well, their anticipation doesn't fulfill their desire for justification. The very first line is built on a false assumption:

(1) IN GENERAL- The individual responsibility requirement provided for in this section (in this subsection referred to as the `requirement') is commercial and economic in nature, and substantially affects interstate commerce, as a result of the effects described in paragraph (2).

There's no provision in the bill that opens insurance companies to do business across state lines. Therefore, there is no interstate commerce influence.

They can anticipate all they want but that doesn't mean their arguments will stick in a court of law.
 
Re: If republicans get a significant majority will they repeal Obama health care refo

I think those who voted "yes" are just wishful at this point. The government has never gotten it's hands out of anything after it gets in.
 
Re: If republicans get a significant majority will they repeal Obama health care refo

There's no provision in the bill that opens insurance companies to do business across state lines.

Of course there is. It's the central premise of the bill!
 
Re: If republicans get a significant majority will they repeal Obama health care refo

Of course there is. It's the central premise of the bill!

Regulation of the insurance companies themselves is applicable because they do interstate commerce. However, if I am not buying insurance across state lines (because currently, you can't AND the new bill does not open that up), my activity cannot be regulated by the Feds under the interstate commerce provision. The state may regulate me, but the fed has no authority.

The central premise is false.
 
Re: If republicans get a significant majority will they repeal Obama health care refo

It's not that simple, but I don't think a healthy 25-year-old would be charged "several thousand dollars" for insurance.

According to Kaiser, insurance for a 25 year old single guy is over $3k. Regardless, the point is that I don't see anything that would prevent healthy people from doing just what I described, whether they're 25 and healthy or 55 and healthy.

Interesting fact - the law that just passed contains a large justification for the insurance requirement section right there in the law. They obviously anticipated this debate:

Not sure what part of that justifies it, as opposed to simply saying that they think it's important. As to the reference to Southeastern Underwriters, whoever put that in there has a set of brass balls the size of oranges. Setting aside the fact that the question of whether interstate commerce can be regulated is entirely unrelated as to the question of whether participation in commerce can be mandated, here's the first line of the syllabus in the case they cite as support for their argument:

1. A fire insurance company which conducts a substantial part of its business transactions across state lines is engaged in "commerce among the several States," and subject to regulation by Congress under the Commerce Clause.

UNITED STATES V. SOUTH-EASTERN UNDERWRITERS, 322 U. S. 533 (1944) -- US Supreme Court Cases from Justia & Oyez

The chutzpah to claim that this proves that Congress can require individuals to engage in that commerce is unbelievable.
 
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Re: If republicans get a significant majority will they repeal Obama health care refo

UNITED STATES V. SOUTH-EASTERN UNDERWRITERS, 322 U. S. 533 (1944) -- US Supreme Court Cases from Justia & Oyez

The chutzpah to claim that this proves that Congress can require individuals to engage in that commerce is unbelievable.

Right...if an insurance company has a parent office in Delaware but several subsidiaries doing business under different names exclusively in their individual states, does that fall under interstate commerce at all or is just intrastate commerce still since the subsidiaries are, for instance Parent Company dba State Office?
 
Re: If republicans get a significant majority will they repeal Obama health care refo

Regulation of the insurance companies themselves is applicable because they do interstate commerce. However, if I am not buying insurance across state lines (because currently, you can't AND the new bill does not open that up), my activity cannot be regulated by the Feds under the interstate commerce provision. The state may regulate me, but the fed has no authority.

The central premise is false.

Wrong. Unless it changed dramatically in recent weeks, the law will allow sales of insurance across state lines.
 
Re: If republicans get a significant majority will they repeal Obama health care refo

Wrong. The bill will allow sales of insurance across state lines.

I've seen nothing to that effect. Perhaps you would like to point me to the specific page numbers. Your word isn't worth squat to me without a citation from the bill itself.
 
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