- Joined
- Dec 8, 2006
- Messages
- 93,944
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- Location
- Colorado
- Gender
- Male
- Political Leaning
- Libertarian - Left
I think the part you don't understand is that you will fight for what you perceive your rights to be because it is your desire.
You keep going on about people having to accept the hand they are dealt if these rights do not exist. I disagree. If they think it is right to change their life in some way, than they will probably perform some actions towards that goal and either be successful or not. However, their belief is all the justification needed.
What you don't seem to understand is that floppy rights means that one is not justified, no matter what their personal feelings are (you keep trying to bring that up, but that's merely a sidestep) in fighting back against the inequities and oppression they face. Since all rights under that circumstance are given by government, you have no rightful means by which to fight back. You have to accept it. If you think that people do have that right to fight back against oppression, even in the face of law and society, you are saying there is a set of rights which is inherent to us all; those would be natural rights.
You are perfectly justified in applying your natural rights, as you see them, because you believe in them and will act on them.
My desires are inconsequential for the sake of this argument. You claim that people are right in their fight to improve their lot. That suggests a set of rights which are inalienable.
I like to think they are equal, but how would we measure it? I hope they are equal, I think its good to treat them as if they were. My religion tells me that I should treat everyone as I wanted to be treated. I don't always do a good job at it, but I try. I don't think the question is objectively answerable though or else I could whip out a spreadsheet or a math program and perform a series of proofs on it.
As a practical and moral matter. Society seems to be more functional when we apply the concept of equality though.
It's not a measurement, it's a statement. Either humans are all equal or they are not. If we're all equal, then there is a set base of rights which is common to us all. That means there are natural rights which exist merely on the basis of our humanity.