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Where did the Universe come from?

Where did the Universe come from?

  • From the Big Bang, not sure what was before. God does not exist and was not involved.

    Votes: 33 40.2%

  • Not the Big Bang, but some other physical event. God does not exist and was not involved.

    Votes: 2 2.4%

  • God created the Universe without a Big Bang. Earth was especially created.

    Votes: 2 2.4%

  • God created the Universe with a Big Bang and then the universe evolved.

    Votes: 29 35.4%

  • Some other mechanism created the Universe, without God...

    Votes: 7 8.5%

  • God created the Universe in some other fashion...

    Votes: 9 11.0%
  • Total voters
    82
megaprogman said:
String theory has an answer. Nth dimensional blobs of energy called branes. I don't to pretend to understand the math behind it, but its a neat theory.
Click to expand...

Redress said:
I believe you are referring to Brane cosmology, which has some neat aspects to it, but based on my (limited) knowledge as some one who enjoys physics as kinda a hobby, I find it uncompelling. The math involved however is way over my head, so take that for what it is worth.
Click to expand...

Brane cosmology originally evolved partly from the work of [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twistor_theory"]Twistors[/ame] by Roger Penrose, Hawking's partner in black hole radiation (Hawking radiation). Twistors defined time and space around them.

What is so interesting to me are the scales of matter:
  • an atom is 10-10 m.
  • a nucleus is 10-15 m.
  • a proton is 10-15 m.
  • an electron is 10-18 m.
  • a quark is upper bounds 10-18 m.
  • a string is 10-35 m.
  • Planck length = 1.616252×10−35 m.

So an atom is 99.999% empty
A proton, made up of 3 quarks, is 99.9% empty
A quark, made up of several strings, is 99.9999999999999999% empty.

There is no such thing as matter. It is only empty space, energy and force.
 
Last edited:
Redress said:
The Big bang theory represents the beginning of the universe. Before the Big Bang, the universe did not exist. As such, the question is meaningless in a scientific context.

Edited to add for clarity: In other words, if you are religious, you can easy state that god created the original singularity, but it simply is not provable. I personally choose not to speculate on such things. As such, I stand by my original answer.
Click to expand...

Remind me what the question was? If the question is where does the energy come from, it most certainly matters in a scientific context. The singularity must transfer energy.
 
reefedjib said:
Remind me what the question was? If the question is where does the energy come from, it most certainly matters in a scientific context. The singularity must transfer energy.
Click to expand...

No, it is beyond the scope of science. Before the universe, the universe did not exist. Physics is the study of the universe, from the micro to the macro.
 
spud_meister said:
like you said, it's infinite, so none were created, they always have and always will exist, or maybe its a cycle, we're in a universe thats in a universe thats in a univers that's in our universe
Click to expand...

Yes, infinite was a poor choice of word here. In my mind, it was never infinite, there is a beginning.
 
Redress said:
No, it is beyond the scope of science. Before the universe, the universe did not exist. Physics is the study of the universe, from the micro to the macro.
Click to expand...

Duck, dodge and weave!! :mrgreen: :roll:
 
reefedjib said:
Brane cosmology originally evolved partly from the work of Twistors by Roger Penrose, Hawking's partner in black hole radiation (Hawking radiation). Twistors defined time and space around them.

What is so interesting to me are the scales of matter:
  • an atom is 10-10 m.
  • a nucleus is 10-15 m.
  • a proton is 10-15 m.
  • an electron is 10-18 m.
  • a quark is upper bounds 10-18 m.
  • a string is 10-35 m.
  • Planck length = 1.616252×10−35 m.

So an atom is 99.999% empty
A proton, made up of 3 quarks, is 99.9% empty
A quark, made up of several strings, is 99.9999999999999999% empty.

There is no such thing as matter. It is only empty space, energy and force.
Click to expand...

Matter = energy. Important not to forget that. They are different aspects(?) of the same thing. Not sure if aspects is the right word there, but it's early, so cut me some slack.
 
reefedjib said:
It does to a degree, of course this is highly metaphysical:
Click to expand...
In Genesis the God created the Earth....put creation of the universe I would say is not directly discussed.

In John I believe the Word is Jesus.
 
reefedjib said:
I am not asking a scientific question.

The energy has to come from somewhere? Another place just moves the location of the question, where did the energy originally come from? I believe the answer is God.
Click to expand...

But then where did 'god' come from? It had to come from somewhere, right? So where did it come from?

You have an infinite loop going here with that kind of logic.
 
reefedjib said:
Yes, infinite was a poor choice of word here. In my mind, it was never infinite, there is a beginning.
Click to expand...

but it is impossible to study pre big bang because our perspective of the universe didn't exist, perhaps, one day there'll be an obscure branch of relativity that could find out what happened, but until then, we have nought a clue
 
Who knows?

We have about as much of a chance at understanding the source of the universe as a gerbil.
 
reefedjib said:
Duck, dodge and weave!! :mrgreen: :roll:
Click to expand...

No, it is a very specific answer. Before the universe is something beyond the scope of the study of the universe.
 
reefedjib said:
Remind me what the question was? If the question is where does the energy come from, it most certainly matters in a scientific context. The singularity must transfer energy.
Click to expand...

If I understand the big bang theory correctly. It is not a matter of nothing existing in a preexisting 4d space, there was nothing, not simply empty space waiting to be occupied. The big bang both created the space to be filled and the stuff to fill it with.

This means that there is some outer edge to our universe, at least that would be my guess and going one step further, there is probably some structure that holds our universe and maybe other universes as well. What holds that structure? Well I guess its elephants all the way down, and maybe a turtle or two :2razz:

But yeah, my guess is that the cause of the big bang came from somewhere. Where? We can only guess.
 
redress said:
matter = energy. Important not to forget that. They are different aspects(?) of the same thing. Not sure if aspects is the right word there, but it's early, so cut me some slack.
Click to expand...

e = mc^2





.​
 
spud_meister said:
its the polite way of scientists (and normal people) to say the don't have ****ing clue about before the big bang, and probably won't any time soon
Click to expand...

Physics is still applicable at the moment of the singularity and it must have the energy that is expressed in the bang. Where does it come from?
 
megaprogman said:
If I understand the big bang theory correctly. It is not a matter of nothing existing in a preexisting 4d space, there was nothing, not simply empty space waiting to be occupied. The big bang both created the space to be filled and the stuff to fill it with.

This means that there is some outer edge to our universe, at least that would be my guess and going one step further, there is probably some structure that holds our universe and maybe other universes as well. What holds that structure? Well I guess its elephants all the way down, and maybe a turtle or two :2razz:

But yeah, my guess is that the cause of the big bang came from somewhere. Where? We can only guess.
Click to expand...

The size of the universe is not fixed, and changes. During the Planck epoch, it was very very small. It is not very very large. The best explanation(without math) that I know of is to think of the universe as the surface of a balloon. Blowing the balloon up us the expansion of the universe.
 
Redress said:
Well, yes. So saying there is no matter, only energy is inaccurate.
Click to expand...

Look, don't treat me like this! ;-) Matter is only energy in a bound state. They are the same. However, you can't have matter that is not energy, while you can have energy that is not matter. Therefore, matter is subordinate to energy.
 
reefedjib said:
Physics is still applicable at the moment of the singularity and it must have the energy that is expressed in the bang. Where does it come from?
Click to expand...

as i said earlier, you may have missed it

it is impossible to study pre big bang because our perspective of the universe didn't exist, perhaps, one day there'll be an obscure branch of relativity that could find out what happened, but until then, we have nought a clue
Click to expand...

we can go to the singularity, but before that we can't know
 
Redress said:
The size of the universe is not fixed, and changes. During the Planck epoch, it was very very small. It is not very very large. The best explanation(without math) that I know of is to think of the universe as the surface of a balloon. Blowing the balloon up us the expansion of the universe.
Click to expand...

Yeah. I totally agree, but its still not infinite in in any direction or maybe it is, once you start getting beyond 4 dimensions, these questions get murky.
 
reefedjib said:
Look, don't treat me like this! ;-) Matter is only energy in a bound state. They are the same. However, you can't have matter that is not energy, while you can have energy that is not matter. Therefore, matter is subordinate to energy.
Click to expand...

they are equal, if you take all the energy out of matter (by cooling it to 0 degrees K) it is still matter
 
American said:
In Genesis the God created the Earth....put creation of the universe I would say is not directly discussed.

In John I believe the Word is Jesus.
Click to expand...

This is where the "scientific" explanation is bypassed to a degree. I view them as saying earth meaning the non-spiritual realm of reality, whereas the heavens is not the sky but rather the spiritual plane.

I think you are right that in John, the Word is Jesus. I thought that there was a Word of Creation, but I am not that familiar with the Bible.
 
spud_meister said:
they are equal, if you take all the energy out of matter (by cooling it to 0 degrees K) it is still matter
Click to expand...

NO! That is taking all the free energy out of matter, but it still has the e=mc^2 style of rest energy bound up in the particles. The particles are energy. This is why fission will release energy as you break up a uranium atom.
 
We have I think at least 2 people who post regularly who have degrees in physics, at least one of whom works in the field. I am waiting for one of them to find this thread and make us all look ignorant. Should be fun when they do, a good chance to learn.
 
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