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Socialized Medicine is Evil, therefore the VA should be eliminated

The VA should be eliminated because it's Socialized Medicine which is Evil

  • Total voters
    35
bicycleman said:
It's a socialized medical system for an exclusive club, those who gave of themselves to defend this country. Notice, it's not for everybody.
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But if socialized medicine is evil as many people claim and that as a reason to be against it, why aren't they against the VA which is by definition socialized medicine?

The fact that it is somewhat exclusive is irrelevant to the notion of whether or not it is socialism.
 
Scarecrow Akhbar said:
The VA is that government organization established to implement the contracts the government made with it's military servicemen.

As such, it is not socialism.
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Uh No. The reason for its existence has no impact upon whether or not it is socialism or not. How it is operated defines whether it is socialism or not. By your argument, if the government made a contract with anyone to provide a clearly socialist benefit, that's not socialism despite being socialism in operation.
 
rivrrat said:
The reason the VA needs to be overhauled or replaced isn't because it's "socialist". (it isn't socialist) It's because the men and women who agreed to dedicated part or most of their lives in service to our country deserve GREAT medical care for the rest of their lives. That is one of the boons for military service. (hence why it's not socialist) The VA is not great medical care, and that is the only reason it needs to be replaced/overhauled. It needs to be replaced with something that IS great medical care for our vets.
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Wrong like everyone else. The reason for its existence has no impact upon if something is socialism. If the government owns the means of production, that is by definition socialism independent of any reason why such a service exists. The government owns the means of production for the VA, thereby rendering it socialism by its very definition. The fact that it is for soldier is irrelevant. It could be for ANYONE. How it is operated defines whether or not it is socialism.
 
NOTE

I'm not arguing FOR or AGAINST socialism medicine. In fact many of the VA stories are pretty horrific as to what 'care' and I use that term extremely loosely is provided.

However, deriding Obama's plan because it's socialism and calling socialism evil at the same time as funding the VA is a very contradictory position. On one hand, you're against Obama's plan because it's socialism, yet you voted to increase funding for a by its very definition a socialist program. That makes no sense from an ideological point of view.

Calling socialism evil but then defending the VA is also good for a few laughs. It's like saying dictatorships are evil and then funding one. HELLO? Anyone home?

Any republican who is against Obama's plan because its Socialism yet voted to increase VA fund is hypocrite. Which includes both Republican Senate and House minority leaders.
 
obvious Child said:
NOTE

I'm not arguing FOR or AGAINST socialism medicine. In fact many of the VA stories are pretty horrific as to what 'care' and I use that term extremely loosely is provided.

However, deriding Obama's plan because it's socialism and calling socialism evil at the same time as funding the VA is a very contradictory position. On one hand, you're against Obama's plan because it's socialism, yet you voted to increase funding for a by its very definition a socialist program. That makes no sense from an ideological point of view.

Calling socialism evil but then defending the VA is also good for a few laughs. It's like saying dictatorships are evil and then funding one. HELLO? Anyone home?

Any republican who is against Obama's plan because its Socialism yet voted to increase VA fund is hypocrite. Which includes both Republican Senate and House minority leaders.
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It would make more sense for the government to contract private care providers for VA purposes.

And the BEST private care providers, too.

At least 1% of the national budget should be allocated to such.
 
obvious Child said:
As the VA is a socialized medical system where the state owns the hospitals, employs the doctors and controls the medical procedures, it is therefore evil and must be eliminated.

Furthermore, all politicians who voted for increasing funding to the Evil that is VA should be booted from office. Which includes Republican House Minority Leader John Boehner and Senate Minority leader Mitch McConnell, both of which, amusingly have stated opposition to Obama's plan partly due to its "socialism."

GovTrack: House Vote On Passage: H.R. 1016: Veterans Health Care Budget Reform and Transparency Act of 2009
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The VA is not really needed, they could just cover the costs by issuing checks for services performed.

I don't necessarily agree that those people should get lifetime coverage, just coverage for injuries that happened while in service.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
The VA is not really needed, they could just cover the costs by issuing checks for services performed.

I don't necessarily agree that those people should get lifetime coverage, just coverage for injuries that happened while in service.
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The VA was probably started because of the unique wounds and disabilities cause by war.
 
The VA isn't for the whole of society.

No one is forced to use VA services--not evn veterans.

Hence, it's not socialized medicine.

There's more to socialized healthcare than just being government run.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
I understand that, it makes sense but I don't think they should offer services outside of injuries on the job.
That doesn't make sense to me.
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Full healthcare is offered to veterans who can't afford insurance. If you make too much money--like me--you can't qualify for VA bennies, unless it's a condition that stems from your military service.

Make no mistake, a vet can't just waltz into the local VA hospital and get treated.
 
obvious Child said:
As the VA is a socialized medical system where the state owns the hospitals, employs the doctors and controls the medical procedures, it is therefore evil and must be eliminated.

Furthermore, all politicians who voted for increasing funding to the Evil that is VA should be booted from office. Which includes Republican House Minority Leader John Boehner and Senate Minority leader Mitch McConnell, both of which, amusingly have stated opposition to Obama's plan partly due to its "socialism."

GovTrack: House Vote On Passage: H.R. 1016: Veterans Health Care Budget Reform and Transparency Act of 2009
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"So when did you stop beating your wife"?





the VA is a service benefit given to many of those who were willing to sign on the line, many of them have paid far more for this care than YOU could ever understand. Using it as a loaded question really makes little logical sense..
 
apdst said:
Full healthcare is offered to veterans who can't afford insurance. If you make too much money--like me--you can't qualify for VA bennies, unless it's a condition that stems from your military service.

Make no mistake, a vet can't just waltz into the local VA hospital and get treated.
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I do understand that some people serve with the intent to offer positive benefits for their country but a lot of others serve for a steady pay check and choice benefits.

They would probably save money by issuing insurance type cards and paying private doctors.
 
kansaswhig said:
Like what? VA docs paychecks are from US GOVT.
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Like the imposition of force to steal to finance unearned benefits for the general public. The VA provides earned services.

The difference between earned and unearned isn't something socialists understand, but it's real, nonetheless.

That's why voters should be required to earn their own living before being allowed near a ballot box. So they'll prove they know the difference between earned and unearned.
 
Catawba said:
We are the only industrialized nation doesn't have some type of nationalized health care, many of which are not as affluent as our own.
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Yeah, so?

Catawba said:
However, they do no not waste a quarter of the money we waste on our military so they can afford to provide affordable health care for their own people.
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And much of their defense responsibilities are taken up by the US.
 
obvious Child said:
Look kids, someone who has no understanding of what socialism is.

The VA owns the hospitals. Owns the equipment. Employs the doctors. Controls what procedures are done and when. That is a classic owning the means of production. When the state owns the means of production, that is socialism.
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What! How dare you use the actual, real meanings of words in this debate!

Everyone knows the real definition is: "Socialism is whatever the government does that I disagree with. If I agree with it, then it can't be socialism!"
 
apdst said:
No, just not socialized medicine. For healthcare to be socialized wouldn't it have to be available to the whole society?
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No, it only has to be available to those eligible; just like food stamps and unemployment benefits which are also socialism.
 
Scarecrow Akhbar said:
Like the imposition of force to steal to finance unearned benefits for the general public. The VA provides earned services.

The difference between earned and unearned isn't something socialists understand, but it's real, nonetheless.

That's why voters should be required to earn their own living before being allowed near a ballot box. So they'll prove they know the difference between earned and unearned.
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So the doctors aren't Govt. employees?
 
obvious Child said:
Look kids, someone who has no understanding of what socialism is.

The VA owns the hospitals. Owns the equipment. Employs the doctors. Controls what procedures are done and when. That is a classic owning the means of production. When the state owns the means of production, that is socialism.
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No.

The purpose of all this state-owned production is the servicing of an earned obligation.

Socialism is the distribution of unearned wealth.

We've told you this enough times that you cannot plead ignorance.

So quit posting the lies.
 
kansaswhig said:
So the doctors aren't Govt. employees?
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You having difficulty understanding that the government by running the VA is paying off an earned debt, whereas socialized medicine is re-distributing unearned wealth?

Too bad for you.

Explains why you're a Leftist.
 
Groucho said:
No, it only has to be available to those eligible; just like food stamps and unemployment benefits which are also socialism.
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When the sole criteria for eligibility is "need" not "earned value", it' socialism.
 
See, it's like workers comp for workplace injuries.

In a way.

Or employer-provided healthcare.

Are those evil?
 
Scarecrow Akhbar said:
You having difficulty understanding that the government by running the VA is paying off an earned debt, whereas socialized medicine is re-distributing unearned wealth?

Too bad for you.

Explains why you're a Leftist.
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No, I understand. I might use the VA when I retire, if I need to. I understand that it's not a socialized system, but I was simply pointing out many, many posts ago that it's a government-run program, which it is.

It's a social program for a specific group of people (me included). Is it not?

Just like the elderly are eligible for Medicare.
 
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