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Should home-schooling be illegal?

Should home-schooling be illegal?


  • Total voters
    84
I know someone who lived there who says that the place is chalk full of nonsense restrictions such as this.
chock. you're welcome. ;-)
 
Like some others have said, I'm not a big fan of home schooling either. I think homeschooled kids don't always get the best education,

HSLDA | Homeschooled Students Excel in College

Homeschoolers score higher than 86% of peers

HSLDA | HOMESCHOOLERS SCORE HIGHER ON ACT COLLEGE ENTRANCE EXAM



and I also think they don't learn important social skills.


Do you think these parents just lock their kids in the house and never let them play outside or have friends?
 
Well maybe, but both the schools I have been to were like that. So they can't all be that bad. Like I'm not sure I agree with home schooling being illegal, but I think kids get a lot of religious and social prejudice that way. Like if mummy or daddy says that - it has to be right (especially when you are younger,) but you can question what that old poof Mr Humphries says. :mrgreen:

Leo, you have been fortunate. I mean, your parents even sent you all the way to Australia (or is it the other way round? You're an Aussie studying in England?). But in any case, government schools in the UK can be pretty lousy, especially in London, that's why most parents work hard to send their kids to public schools. I volunteered quite a bit, once I almost cried. Sometimes the teachers are in their early 20's, just graduated from college. Some don't know what they are doing. As for the kids, if they want to go to college, that marks them as bright, as quite a few don't think of college as part of their future.
 
It is amazing to me how people who say they are tolerant are so intolerant.

So because a child can have the same beliefs as the parent (good or bad) this is somehow wrong? God forbid people should pass on what they believe to be right to their children. How dare parents raise their own children when the state can do it! :roll:

thats a good point, but then the parents could be intolerant bastards, and that's not exactly a good thing for them to learn
 
I don't see why not as long as they pass the required exams for their state.

That's the problem, there are states where it is not required to pass any exams and the only kids who ever bother to take the exams are the ones who are headed to college, which skews the results for home schoolers. When only the best and the brightest get tested, the results are made to look like home schools produce only the best and the brightest.

I have no problem with home schooling, I just think it needs a lot more regulation and independent testing and evaluation.
 
It is amazing to me how people who say they are tolerant are so intolerant.

So because a child can have the same beliefs as the parent (good or bad) this is somehow wrong? God forbid people should pass on what they believe to be right to their children. How dare parents raise their own children when the state can do it! :roll:

Well, first off, I have never claimed to be tolerant or intolerant, I'm just giving my opinion, so save your outrage. :)

I am saying that it is easy for parents to pass their prejudices, religious or otherwise, on to children, and if those children have minimal interaction outside the home, then there is little influence to counter what amounts to indoctrination. Obviously I am not talking about values like fairness, decency, and tolerance. These are values supported by society in general, and interaction with other elements of society will only reinforce them. But bigotry, religious intolerance, etc. need to be viewed through the prism of society in general. No one is suggesting the state be given carte blanche to indoctrinate children, just that the sole influence of the home is not always balanced. So interaction with society at large is beneficial to children.
 
Leo, you have been fortunate. I mean, your parents even sent you all the way to Australia (or is it the other way round? You're an Aussie studying in England?). But in any case, government schools in the UK can be pretty lousy, especially in London, that's why most parents work hard to send their kids to public schools. I volunteered quite a bit, once I almost cried. Sometimes the teachers are in their early 20's, just graduated from college. Some don't know what they are doing. As for the kids, if they want to go to college, that marks them as bright, as quite a few don't think of college as part of their future.

Yes, I guess I am fortunate in the sense that my dad (who died when I was young) left a trust to be used for the sole purpose of my education all the way to university. I am a boarder in Public School in Australia, and I understand that it is an elite school, but I have friends who go to the Australian equivalent of a comprehensive or grammar school, and they are not thugs, and seem quite well educated. I know some government schools can suck, but not all, and there are some selective ones around Sydney that have a very good academic record. I feel sure it would be better for children to be educated at schools like that, than to depend upon a parent who is unlikely to be qualified sufficiently in the entire range of subjects required. And this leaves aside any question of religious indoctrination, or any other prejudice.
 
No. Your inability to read is amazing :

What? So by trying to prove that the number is higher than 72%, you show that it's actually 33%?

From your source:

According to a 2001 U.S. Census survey, 33% of homeschooling households cited religion as a factor in their choice. The same study found that 30% felt school had a poor learning environment, 14% objected to what the school teaches, 11% felt their children were not being challenged at school, and 9% cited morality.[20]
According to the U.S. DOE's "Homeschooling in the United States: 2003", 85 percent of homeschooling parents cited "the social environments of other forms of schooling" (including safety, drugs, sexual harassment, bullying and negative peer-pressure) as an important reason why they homeschool. 72 percent cited "to provide religious or moral instruction" as an important reason, and 68 percent cited "dissatisfaction with academic instruction at other schools."[13] 7 percent cited "Child has physical or mental health problem", 7 percent cited "Child has other special needs", 9 percent cited "Other reasons" (including "child's choice," "allows parents more control of learning" and "flexibility").[13]

"Religious and moral instruction" was just one "important reason" among many, and not even the most cited. That's ignoring the fact that it's religious and moral instruction, so the number for whom religion is an important factor probably is less than 72%.

As for a primary factor, here's from CC's source:

Parents were asked which of the reasons they homeschooled was the most important reason. Figure 2 and table 4 show the most important reasons students were being homeschooled in 2003, as reported by parents of homeschooled students. Concern about the environment of other schools and to provide religious or moral instruction were the top two most important reasons cited. About a third of students had parents who cited concern about the environment of other schools as their most important reason for homeschooling (31 percent). Approximately another third of homeschooled students had parents who were homeschooling primarily to provide religious or moral instruction (30 percent). Sixteen percent of homeschooled students had parents whose primary reason for homeschooling was dissatisfaction with the academic instruction available at other schools, making this the third most common primary reason for homeschooling.

That's why I said it dropped to 30% when it's listed a the primary factor ("moral" is still there too, so it could theoretically be even less than that). But of course, I guess we can't trust polls of Christians because they're a bunch of liars :roll:

It has nothing to do with "primary" factors. Please read. And that number does not drop to anything. One study is by the census the other is by the DoE. One study allows for a single option and once again these options are flawed in the end. If I believe the schooling conditions are poor in schools and I'd do a better job, I don't have to put religion as a factor now do I? It is just another case of Christian smokescreen for true intent.

It's kind of weird to hear you say that Christians are flat out lying about their intent when I know several people who are/were homeschooled for non-religious reasons, and absolutely none who were homeschooled for religious reasons. Anecdotal, I know, but I still have no idea why you're so hell-bent on painting homeschooling as an overwhelmingly Christian thing, no matter what the numbers say. How many homeschooled people do you know?
 
That's the problem, there are states where it is not required to pass any exams and the only kids who ever bother to take the exams are the ones who are headed to college, which skews the results for home schoolers. When only the best and the brightest get tested, the results are made to look like home schools produce only the best and the brightest.

In my admittedly limited experience, all of the homeschooled children I have known go to college. That's one of the benefits of having educated parents who are interested in their childrens' education enough to actually provide it for them. Most of the homeschoolers I know are in networking groups. It's not that a single parent educates only their own children. They network with other home-schoolers and/or enroll their kids in college courses prior to high school graduation eligibility, in order to expose the kids to more intellectually stimulating environments.

These parents are not frumpy women sitting around the house in their long dresses and hair pulled into a bun, sans make-up. They are educated and dedicated to the well-being of their children.
 
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Well, first off, I have never claimed to be tolerant or intolerant, I'm just giving my opinion, so save your outrage. :)

Not outrage, surprise. :lol:

I am saying that it is easy for parents to pass their prejudices, religious or otherwise, on to children, and if those children have minimal interaction outside the home, then there is little influence to counter what amounts to indoctrination.

So parents should not have anything to do with raising their own children? Or as you put it as little contact as possible?

Obviously I am not talking about values like fairness, decency, and tolerance. These are values supported by society in general, and interaction with other elements of society will only reinforce them.

Maybe if you live in Utopia, because no place else on earth will you find those values in any great amount outside of the home.

But bigotry, religious intolerance, etc. need to be viewed through the prism of society in general. No one is suggesting the state be given carte blanche to indoctrinate children, just that the sole influence of the home is not always balanced. So interaction with society at large is beneficial to children.

I agree that interaction as in social contact is a good thing, but it is no less positive or negative than in the home. Our homes be they religious or otherwise tend to be reflections of our society and visa versa.

So far no proof of any kind has been offered to show why home schooling should be illegal.
 
Yes, I guess I am fortunate in the sense that my dad (who died when I was young) left a trust to be used for the sole purpose of my education all the way to university. I am a boarder in Public School in Australia, and I understand that it is an elite school, but I have friends who go to the Australian equivalent of a comprehensive or grammar school, and they are not thugs, and seem quite well educated. I know some government schools can suck, but not all, and there are some selective ones around Sydney that have a very good academic record. I feel sure it would be better for children to be educated at schools like that, than to depend upon a parent who is unlikely to be qualified sufficiently in the entire range of subjects required. And this leaves aside any question of religious indoctrination, or any other prejudice.

It sounds like you are more concerned with religious indoctrination than anything else.

Raising a child to follow your religious beliefs is fine. Most home schooled children have no issues.

My daughter was sent to a Catholic school all her life, and she is a Christian like I and my wife. So I guess our indoctrination worked. :roll:
 
I know someone who lived there who says that the place is chalk full of nonsense restrictions such as this.

It's Germany, birth place of National Socialism.

What do they expect?
 
How does homeschooling have different standards than private/public schools? As long as the kids follow legal guidelines for schooling and pass the standardized tests, what difference does it make?

Mainly because parents don't belong to a goonion.

When discussing quality of output for any industry, that makes all the difference.


And that doesn't even address the fact that the parent:

a) Cares.
b) Isn't going to waste too much time on bull****, something no public school can say.
 
b) Isn't going to waste too much time on bull****, something no public school can say.

Indeed. From the people I've heard from, a 7-hour school day can be reduced to 3 hours with homeschooling thanks to the lack of wasted time.
 
So far no proof of any kind has been offered to show why home schooling should be illegal.

Because the State doesn't want competition. It wants sole power to warp...er..."shape" the minds of it's victims...er..."students".
 
I've seen some of the type of homeschooling which can occur. Very Jesus Camp like (i.e. the kids are definitely going to grow up ignorant fools). But there's nothing we can really do about it, homeschooling is legal and should remain legal. If you screw up your kids...well your bad. Don't expect me to fix the problem.
 
Our founders did okay with it.

Our founders lived a relatively simple lifestyle that didn't require a lot of knowledge. Parents taught kids what they knew, that was it. Today, kids need to know things their parents just aren't equipped to teach, things that most parents just don't know. I don't mind parents teaching their kids, so long as kids are getting the information they need. Far too often in home schooling situations, that isn't the case.
 
I've seen some of the type of homeschooling which can occur. Very Jesus Camp like (i.e. the kids are definitely going to grow up ignorant fools). But there's nothing we can really do about it, homeschooling is legal and should remain legal. If you screw up your kids...well your bad. Don't expect me to fix the problem.

Now wait a minute. I agree for the most part, but how does having fundamental faith in your religion make you an ignorant fool? Most fundamentalist Christians are good down to earth people. The problem is they get judged by the "Phelps Family" which is an extreme example. I think that is nothing but a blanket statement on your part, as Jesus camp was not THAT bad.

I am a Christian, and I am most certainly not ignorant about the world (or anything else for that matter) just because I am a person of faith.
 
Far too often in home schooling situations, that isn't the case.

Do you have any kind of evidence to back that up? Or are you assuming it is this way?
 
Now wait a minute. I agree for the most part, but how does having fundamental faith in your religion make you an ignorant fool? Most fundamentalist Christians are good down to earth people. The problem is they get judged by the "Phelps Family" which is an extreme example. I think that is nothing but a blanket statement on your part, as Jesus camp was not THAT bad.

I am a Christian, and I am most certainly not ignorant about the world (or anything else for that matter) just because I am a person of faith.

If you noticed, I said "some of the homeschooling which can occur". It's not stating all, it's stating some. I was saying in spite of that (and it does occur), homeschooling cannot be banned.

observe:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DH_wPUVlJ38"]YouTube- Radical Fundamentalist Christian Home-Schooling[/ame]

Again, some, not all. And despite the ignorance they are professing, I'm saying that homeschooling should remain legal.
 
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If you noticed, I said "some of the homeschooling which can occur". It's not stating all, it's stating some. I was saying in spite of that (and it does occur), homeschooling cannot be banned.

observe:

YouTube- Radical Fundamentalist Christian Home-Schooling

Again, some, not all. And despite the ignorance they are professing, I'm saying that homeschooling should remain legal.

Admittedly I am an old earth Christian and do not agree with that, but it does not make it wrong for her to teach her son.

That is a very poor example of home schooling being bad in any way.

If he grows up believing in evolution or creation it will make little difference when he goes to college. As an adult he can then make up his own mind.


Essentially we agree, I just don't agree with your portrayal of fundamentalist Christians as an example of bad home schooling.

Just thought this would add a smile or two...

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8asQkegV_wk&feature=related"]YouTube- Evolution Explained: South Park Exposes Stupidity Of Creationists[/ame]
 
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I don't think it should be illigal, but I'm no fan of it. Kids needs to socialice with other kids. School is a good place for kids to develop social skills. However, instead we should open for more charter schools and allow them to pick any school in their state if their grades are good enough, so the kids have alternatives and schools need to compete.
 
Our founders lived a relatively simple lifestyle that didn't require a lot of knowledge. Parents taught kids what they knew, that was it. Today, kids need to know things their parents just aren't equipped to teach, things that most parents just don't know. I don't mind parents teaching their kids, so long as kids are getting the information they need. Far too often in home schooling situations, that isn't the case.

That is just plain wrong, ignorance is high in this thread.
Most of these guys were generals, statesmen, business owners, et all.
How in the hell do you think that is "simple?"

I'm willing to bet most of the detractors are of a government "education."
 
Yes, I guess I am fortunate in the sense that my dad (who died when I was young) left a trust to be used for the sole purpose of my education all the way to university. I am a boarder in Public School in Australia, and I understand that it is an elite school, but I have friends who go to the Australian equivalent of a comprehensive or grammar school, and they are not thugs, and seem quite well educated. I know some government schools can suck, but not all, and there are some selective ones around Sydney that have a very good academic record. I feel sure it would be better for children to be educated at schools like that, than to depend upon a parent who is unlikely to be qualified sufficiently in the entire range of subjects required. And this leaves aside any question of religious indoctrination, or any other prejudice.


Keywords being "selective ones". Honest truth is, if I can't afford to send my kids (if or when I have them) to a good school I can trust, I would rather teach them myself or at the least supplement their education at home. Some schools teach just the basic, and some teachers don't (or can't afford the time and emotion) to care about all the children in their class. Parents will always try to instill "good values" (a very subjective thing) in their kids, religion being one of it. There's nothing wrong with that in itself. Religious "indoctrination" is not the worst thing in the world. Being in 6th form and not be able to read properly, that's a really bad thing. When that happens, and I seen that often in the schools I volunteered, all the school does is blame the parents. And maybe it's the fault of the parents for not taking their children's education into their own hands.
 
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