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Should home-schooling be illegal?

Should home-schooling be illegal?

  • Total voters
    84
Dav said:
I would like to see evidence of this. I have never heard of that assertion.
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Here you go. From the US Department of Education:

The reason for homeschooling that was most frequently cited as being applicable was concern about the environment of other schools including safety, drugs, or negative peer pressure. Eighty-five percent of homeschooled students were being homeschooled, in part, because of their parents’ concern about the environment of other schools. The next two reasons for homeschooling most frequently cited as applicable were to provide religious or moral instruction (72 percent) and dissatisfaction with academic instruction at other schools (68 percent).


Parents were asked which of the reasons they homeschooled was the most important reason. Figure 2 and table 4 show the most important reasons students were being homeschooled in 2003, as reported by parents of homeschooled students. Concern about the environment of other schools and to provide religious or moral instruction were the top two most important reasons cited. About a third of students had parents who cited concern about the environment of other schools as their most important reason for homeschooling (31 percent). Approximately another third of homeschooled students had parents who were homeschooling primarily to provide religious or moral instruction (30 percent). Sixteen percent of homeschooled students had parents whose primary reason for homeschooling was dissatisfaction with the academic instruction available at other schools, making this the third most common primary reason for homeschooling.


Table 4: Number and percentage of homeschooled students whose parents reported particular reasons for homeschooling as being applicable to their situation and as being their most important reason for homeschooling: 2003
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72% cited religious and moral instruction as one of the reasons they homeschooled. 30% cited it as the primary reason. Both of these were second (with the latter second by 1% point). Perhaps this is not a vast majority, but it is a pretty significant number.
 
Dav said:
I would like to see evidence of this. I have never heard of that assertion.
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[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeschooling]Homeschooling - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

According to a 2001 U.S. Census survey, 33% of homeschooling households cited religion as a factor in their choice. The same study found that 30% felt school had a poor learning environment, 14% objected to what the school teaches, 11% felt their children were not being challenged at school, and 9% cited morality.[20]
According to the U.S. DOE's "Homeschooling in the United States: 2003", 85 percent of homeschooling parents cited "the social environments of other forms of schooling" (including safety, drugs, sexual harassment, bullying and negative peer-pressure) as an important reason why they homeschool. 72 percent cited "to provide religious or moral instruction" as an important reason, and 68 percent cited "dissatisfaction with academic instruction at other schools."[13] 7 percent cited "Child has physical or mental health problem", 7 percent cited "Child has other special needs", 9 percent cited "Other reasons" (including "child's choice," "allows parents more control of learning" and "flexibility").[13]
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I was off by 23%. I suspect the numbers are much higher in reality. The same people who say creationism should be taught in schools because it is a "competing" theory to evolution are highly religious but aren't willing to outright say it. It is just another case of religious double speak and not being honest enough to admit true intent.
 
And btw, just because I am not in favor of home-schooling, I completely support a parent's right to do so if they choose.
 
Hatuey said:
Homeschooling - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



I was off by 23%. I suspect the numbers are much higher in reality. The same people who say creationism should be taught in schools because it is a "competing" theory to evolution are highly religious but aren't willing to outright say it. It is just another case of religious double speak and not being honest enough to admit true intent.
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Beat you by ONE minute, Hatuey. :2razz:
 
captaincourtesy said:
here you go. From the us department of education:

72% cited religious and moral instruction as one of the reasons they homeschooled. 30% cited it as the primary reason. Both of these were second (with the latter second by 1% point). Perhaps this is not a vast majority, but it is a pretty significant number.
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you beat me by one minute. One!
 
In any case, I know several people who are in that 28% where religion was not a factor.
 
Dav said:
In any case, I know several people who are in that 28% where religion was not a factor.
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The numbers on their own aren't worth much because the possible answers can fit within each other. If I say I could provide a much better education for my kid than schools, but this is because I believe my religion can provide better teachings then my answer isn't entirely honest now is it? The numbers are probably MUCH higher than 72%. This possibility is explored in my link.
 
Hatuey said:
The numbers on their own aren't worth much because the possible answers can fit within each other. If I say I could provide a much better education for my kid than schools, but this is because I believe my religion can provide better teachings then my answer isn't entirely honest now is it? The numbers are probably MUCH higher than 72%. This possibility is explored in my link.
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Except that 72% was just the number for which religion was a factor, which fits your scenario perfectly. When it's the primary factor, the number drops to 30%.
 
How is it anyone else's business what a parent teaches their kids as long as they teach them the basics, too? Oh, right . . . it's not.
 
Hatuey said:
The numbers on their own aren't worth much because the possible answers can fit within each other. If I say I could provide a much better education for my kid than schools, but this is because I believe my religion can provide better teachings then my answer isn't entirely honest now is it? The numbers are probably MUCH higher than 72%. This possibility is explored in my link.
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What difference does it make whether it is religious or not? You make it sound like you would rather have a child schooled outside of the home so that the religion of the parent could not be taught to the child.

Parents send kids to parochial schools etc, so home schooling would make no difference as far as religion goes.
 
Blackdog said:
What difference does it make whether it is religious or not? You make it sound like you would rather have a child schooled outside of the home so that the religion of the parent could not be taught to the child.
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No. I'd rather kids go to school with dedicated professionals 5 days a week and then if they want, go to religious school on the weekend. Home schooling is simply religious bull**** being fed to us by the right wing that doesn't want kids being taught that God plays absolutely no role in osmosis or Pythagorean theory.

Parents send kids to parochial schools etc, so home schooling would make no difference as far as religion goes.
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Good. Send them to parochial schools where there is at the very least a vetting process that ensures the people teaching aren't complete religious nuts. My wife went to a catholic school. They are nothing like home schooling. At all. Forgive me for being weary of any religious person who thinks they can teach science better than schools.
 
Dav said:
Except that 72% was just the number for which religion was a factor, which fits your scenario perfectly. When it's the primary factor, the number drops to 30%.
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No. Your inability to read is amazing :

According to a 2001 U.S. Census survey, 33% of homeschooling households cited religion as a factor in their choice. The same study found that 30% felt school had a poor learning environment, 14% objected to what the school teaches, 11% felt their children were not being challenged at school, and 9% cited morality.[20]
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It has nothing to do with "primary" factors. Please read. And that number does not drop to anything. One study is by the census the other is by the DoE. One study allows for a single option and once again these options are flawed in the end. If I believe the schooling conditions are poor in schools and I'd do a better job, I don't have to put religion as a factor now do I? It is just another case of Christian smokescreen for true intent.
 
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Hatuey said:
No. I'd rather kids go to school with dedicated professionals 5 days a week and then if they want, go to religious school on the weekend. Home schooling is simply religious bull**** being fed to us by the right wing that doesn't want kids being taught that God plays absolutely no role in osmosis or Pythagorean theory.
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My son has had practically zero religious instruction in our homeschooling environment.

Your a little loose with your definition of "professional" as well.

Government schools are the best places to find drugs, stolen merchandise, to be marginalized for being smart and many other great things.
 
Public schools are relevant in spotting incest, pedophilia, and general child abuse.
 
B L Zeebub said:
Public schools are relevant in spotting incest, pedophilia, and general child abuse.
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Thank you for pointing that out. :2wave:

In addition to which, may I also point out that my schooling costs my mum something over twenty thousand pounds a year. For that I get instruction by the most highly qualified teachers available (few, if any, are without doctorates in their chosen discipline,) I get the use of the best equipped science labs, libraries, sports facilities, etc. I have been a boarder since I was six, and I think that has helped me gain self-confidence and independence, to a greater degree than someone who is taught at home.

With all due respect to those who either home-school their children, or were themselves home-schooled; few, if any parents would be qualified to doctorate level at every subject they teach their children. In fact few working parents would even have the time to stay at home for the hours required to teach a full syllabus every day.

I also want to point out that parents should not be the sole arbiters of their childrens' welfare. Certain standards as to religious indoctrination, societal prejudice and other subtle forms of abuse must be met. We are already far too subject to the prejudices of our parents.

I think that in remote communities, carefully monitored education at home is quite acceptable, but I cannot consider it a preferable alternative to a good, well staffed, and well equipped school.
 
Leo said:
Thank you for pointing that out. :2wave:

In addition to which, may I also point out that my schooling costs my mum something over twenty thousand pounds a year. For that I get instruction by the most highly qualified teachers available (few, if any, are without doctorates in their chosen discipline,) I get the use of the best equipped science labs, libraries, sports facilities, etc. I have been a boarder since I was six, and I think that has helped me gain self-confidence and independence, to a greater degree than someone who is taught at home.

With all due respect to those who either home-school their children, or were themselves home-schooled; few, if any parents would be qualified to doctorate level at every subject they teach their children. In fact few working parents would even have the time to stay at home for the hours required to teach a full syllabus every day.

I also want to point out that parents should not be the sole arbiters of their childrens' welfare. Certain standards as to religious indoctrination, societal prejudice and other subtle forms of abuse must be met. We are already far too subject to the prejudices of our parents.

I think that in remote communities, carefully monitored education at home is quite acceptable, but I cannot consider it a preferable alternative to a good, well staffed, and well equipped school.
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What about schools that don't meet that criteria?

You should know that those are the majority.
 
Hatuey said:
No. I'd rather kids go to school with dedicated professionals 5 days a week and then if they want, go to religious school on the weekend. Home schooling is simply religious bull**** being fed to us by the right wing that doesn't want kids being taught that God plays absolutely no role in osmosis or Pythagorean theory.
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I am not even going to go into the rights of parents etc. There is nothing wrong with home schooling and in allot of cases religion or no, it is a better choice.

Hatuey said:
Good. Send them to parochial schools where there is at the very least a vetting process that ensures the people teaching aren't complete religious nuts. My wife went to a catholic school. They are nothing like home schooling. At all. Forgive me for being weary of any religious person who thinks they can teach science better than schools.
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So your main problem is you feel fundamental religious parents are somehow a threat to their own children? I mean that is your only real argument.
 
I left school at 15yrs of age, as an athiest my favorite class was religious instruction. The RI teacher used to wear a mini skirt with stockings and a suspender belt exposed when seated, talk about religion giving me the horn:)

Home schooling cant deliver that, well legally anyway:shock:

44yrs later I often wonder what became of Mr Humphreys
 
Like some others have said, I'm not a big fan of home schooling either. I think homeschooled kids don't always get the best education, and I also think they don't learn important social skills. Making illegal is ridiculous though.
 
B L Zeebub said:
I left school at 15yrs of age, as an athiest my favorite class was religious instruction. The RI teacher used to wear a mini skirt with stockings and a suspender belt exposed when seated, talk about religion giving me the horn:)

Home schooling cant deliver that, well legally anyway:shock:

44yrs later I often wonder what became of Mr Humphreys
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:rofl Now why did I just know you were going to write that closing sentence? :mrgreen:
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
What about schools that don't meet that criteria?

You should know that those are the majority.
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Well maybe, but both the schools I have been to were like that. So they can't all be that bad. Like I'm not sure I agree with home schooling being illegal, but I think kids get a lot of religious and social prejudice that way. Like if mummy or daddy says that - it has to be right (especially when you are younger,) but you can question what that old poof Mr Humphries says. :mrgreen:
 
B L Zeebub said:
I left school at 15yrs of age, as an athiest my favorite class was religious instruction. The RI teacher used to wear a mini skirt with stockings and a suspender belt exposed when seated, talk about religion giving me the horn:)

Home schooling cant deliver that, well legally anyway:shock:

44yrs later I often wonder what became of Mr Humphreys
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Bet you dropped your pencil a lot, too.:lol:
 
Leo said:
Well maybe, but both the schools I have been to were like that. So they can't all be that bad. Like I'm not sure I agree with home schooling being illegal, but I think kids get a lot of religious and social prejudice that way. Like if mummy or daddy says that - it has to be right (especially when you are younger,) but you can question what that old poof Mr Humphries says. :mrgreen:
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It is amazing to me how people who say they are tolerant are so intolerant.

So because a child can have the same beliefs as the parent (good or bad) this is somehow wrong? God forbid people should pass on what they believe to be right to their children. How dare parents raise their own children when the state can do it! :roll:
 
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