In no particular chronological order...
Chuz said:
As is evidenced by the differing DNA and the need for both the mother's and the child's immune systems to ignore the presence of the other,....
As is evidenced by chimera organisms, organ donors and microchimerism.
Right.
Chuz said:
But believe it or not, the science is conclusive enough to base a decision on this one.
Ian's rogue Dr.'s defensiveness not withstanding.
You clearly believe it. You just can't show it. As for my 'rogue doctor' - that's an issue you would have to take up with allexperts.com. Do you plan on describing the 'rogue dictionary' soon, too?
Chuz (yes said:
As the polls show, Ian...
Most people know better.
I actually read through the thread itself an noticed something, Chuz. The poll says what it says - but if you look at the responses of the people who have posted here, many of those who voted 'yes' have a definition for 'organism' that differs from both mine
and your use of the term - more specifically, they have one that also calls a skin/blood/sperm cell an organism.
By their definition, a zygote is certainly an organism, as is a skin/sperm/blood cell. I'm with Tsunami on that one. It's only when you talk about 'capable of independent existence' (a concept which you seem to be refusing to talk about any more) that skin/sperm/blood cells no longer are classified as organisms. However with that addition, a zygote is also not an organism.
Either a zygote is not an organism, or the fact that it
is an organism is irrelevant. You can't have it both ways.
Spud said:
it is not part of the mother, anymore than a person on life support is part of the machine
Two Three possible responses.
Firstly, the mother is alive, so the ZEF can be part of her. Someone on life support is
not a machine, so they cannot be part of it.
Secondly, the biological connection between a mother and the ZEF is faaaaaaaaaaar more complex than that between a patient and a life support machine, by an incredibly long way. See my definition of the placenta.
Thirdly, someone on life support is probably closest to being 'part of the machine' when they are permenantly brain dead, as at that point there is no 'person' left alive. At that point, very few people complain when the machine is switched off.