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Is a single celled human zygote an 'organism'?

Is a single celled human zygote an 'organism'?

  • Yes, a single celled zygote is in fact an organism

    Votes: 43 79.6%

  • No, a single celled zygote is not in fact an organism

    Votes: 11 20.4%
  • Total voters
    54
Chuz Life said:
It appears that you can not comprehend the differences between a "cell" and an "organism."
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That's because there is no difference.

Chuz Life said:
It's true, that for the brief point in time that a zygote is only one cell,... that it is "both" a cell and an organism,... There's still no (logical) comparison between a "zygote" which is a complete organism,.. and a cell of any other kind (heart, lung, skin) that is little more than a component of a larger 'organism.'
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Your use of the word "complete" is not scientific, just a reference to an opinion. A protein is not "complete" until it has all 20 amino acids; a cell that is functioning and respirating could be considered complete, which would include the cells of the various organs, but maybe the cell belongs to a greater system of cells that are not "complete" in function until replication is fully complete, as could be the case of a zygote.

The fact that a zygote continues to replicate until it becomes a more complex organism does not really speak to completeness or incompleteness, but rather its function. I would call a liver cell complete because it is as complex as it needs to be to perform its function.

You're trying to prove that a zygote is somehow special and is more complete than other kinds of cells because of its function, but this is a logical fallacy. Every kind of cell is "complete" within the parameters of its function, and together they all make a complete system: your living body.
 
Orius said:
That's because there is no difference,....

Your use of the word "complete" is not scientific, just a reference to an opinion. A protein is not "complete" until it has all 20 amino acids; a cell that is functioning and respirating could be considered complete, which would include the cells of the various organs, but maybe the cell belongs to a greater system of cells that are not "complete" in function until replication is fully complete, as could be the case of a zygote.

The fact that a zygote continues to replicate until it becomes a more complex organism does not really speak to completeness or incompleteness, but rather its function. I would call a liver cell complete because it is as complex as it needs to be to perform its function.

You're trying to prove that a zygote is somehow special and is more complete than other kinds of cells because of its function, but this is a logical fallacy. Every kind of cell is "complete" within the parameters of its function, and together they all make a complete system: your living body.
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Nice rant,... you could have just asked me what I meant by my use the word 'complete.'

I meant it as a "whole" as in "not part of."

A zygote is an organism in and of,... unto itself. A zygote is not a "structural unit"

A "cell" on the other hand,... is the "smallest structural unit of an organism that is capable of independent functioning, consisting of one or more nuclei, cytoplasm, and various organelles, all surrounded by a semipermeable cell membrane."

A zygote is not a "structural unit" of an organism,.... It is an organism.

Your claim (above) that 'there is no difference' is (for that very reason),... false.
 
Chuz Life said:
Nice rant,... you could have just asked me what I meant by my use the word 'complete.'
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It wasn't a rant. I was giving my opinion. If you don't want to hear what others have you say you should simply not ask, and you can thereby avoid wasting yours and everyone else's time.

Chuz Life said:
I meant it as a "whole" as in "not part of."

A zygote is an organism in and of,... unto itself. A zygote is not a "structural unit"

A "cell" on the other hand,... is the "smallest structural unit of an organism that is capable of independent functioning, consisting of one or more nuclei, cytoplasm, and various organelles, all surrounded by a semipermeable cell membrane."

A zygote is not a "structural unit" of an organism,.... It is an organism.

Your claim (above) that 'there is no difference' is (for that very reason),... false.
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If all you care about is what a dictionary says, then why did you create this thread? Sounds like you just want to hear your own views reflected back at you, which I won't do. I already said I think a zygote is an organism, but how I arrive at that understanding may be different than you.

By that definition you posted, a zygote can't be an organism because it can't function independently "unto itself". We don't have zygotes running around and existing wild in nature. They exist in-utero (in mammals) only. Thus it fails to meet the criterion of your own definition of an organism.

However, if we extend the definition of "organism" to biological matter that is alive, then both a cell and a zygote are organisms. What you are attempting to do is give zygotes "special status" for your anti-choice cause, which is why you are getting defensive when I compare a zygote to the complexity of structural cells of bodily organs.

The definition you looked up is about scientific classification to make things easier to discern, study, and disseminate through journals. That's different from the philosophical realm where people have different opinions on things.
 
phattonez said:
There's a disturbing lack of biological knowledge around here.

If it's a cell then it's an organism. It has DNA/RNA, organelles, etc. So a cell is an organism. Hence a zygote is an organism. A zygote is a little different in that the DNA in it is not yet active, but it will be, so it's an organism.

Is it a human? Well, if it's not, then what species is it?

So yes, a zygote is a human organism. The real question is about when it gets dignity.
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Well, the problem with this poll is that both answers are correct, depending upon your definition of organism. But to say that every cell is an organism dilutes the meaning of the word. There certainly are single-celled organisms that are separate life forms capable of self-sustenance. But there are also organisms made up of multiple cells, each with different functions, that are incapable of individually sustained life. I think a fertilized egg cell is closer to the second example than the first.
 
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rivrrat said:
Yes, it is. Not sure why it matters, though.
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I admire your candor, Rivrrat.

I really do.

In fact, your ability to be frank and intellectually honest helps illustrate on of my reasons for taking this poll.

Note the way some (who even voted in the affirmative) will twist and squirm, distort or dismiss the sources, what they say, what they mean,... etc.

They can't bring themselves to be as open and honest as you are being,... because (I'm guessing) they suspect their answer may be used to undermine their basis for keeping abortion legal.

You don't seem to worry about that and I think it's to your credit.
 
"In biology, an organism is any living system (such as animal, plant, fungus, or micro-organism). In at least some form, all organisms are capable of response to stimuli, reproduction, growth and development, and maintenance of homeostasis as a stable whole. An organism may either be unicellular (single-celled) or be composed of, as in humans, many billions of cells grouped into specialized tissues and organs. ...

Not an organism. It does not meet the basic criteria, and a human organism is composed of a tad more than one cell. I refer to wiki to keep it concise.
 
"Is a zygote an organism"
That's a silly question.

Of course it is.

An organism is just a term - it refers to cells that are capable of reproducing or a fully developed member of a species.

It doesn't denote intelligence, rights, abilities or anything other than that.

A nut, a sappling, an amoeba, a fruit, a vegetable, a leaf - all these are organisms on their own and part of a larger, more complex organism. The only thing I'm aware of that multiplies and spreads yet isn't classified as an organism is a virus.
 
Chuz Life said:
This gets to the root meaning of my other poll, Phatty.

Phallic punns un-intended.

I notice, you have yet to vote in that one.
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You know my views on abortion, but it's impossible to say what the founding fathers would have intended on abortion when they wrote that statement. There's no way that I can vote on it. However, if you had a poll asking if you were for or against abortion, I would easily vote nay.
 
Manc Skipper said:
"In biology, an organism is any living system (such as animal, plant, fungus, or micro-organism). In at least some form, all organisms are capable of response to stimuli,
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Zygotes definitely do that.

reproduction,
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Isn't cleavage technically reproduction?

growth and development,
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Zygotes definitely grow and develop.

and maintenance of homeostasis as a stable whole.
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It sure does this.

Not an organism. It does not meet the basic criteria, and a human organism is composed of a tad more than one cell. I refer to wiki to keep it concise.
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It is an organism. You started from one cell. You are now composed of many cells. If you weren't an organism before, then you somehow violated some nasty biological rules. You can't go from non-life to life. Spoiled meat does not give birth to maggots.

Where things get tricky is with multicellular organisms. You yourself are an organism. Is a skin cell an organism? Welllll, it's a part of the entire organism of the human. It is alive, though. No question about that.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
In the Polls Forum only, visitors (non-members) are allowed to vote. It assists in involving non-members and enticing them to join.
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I see,... so for a less skewed result,... would you agree it would be better to count the names of who voted for what and eliminate the votes which 'could' be someone voting twice (at least once with anonymity).

Agree?
 
Chuz Life said:
I see,... so for a less skewed result,... would you agree it would be better to count the names of who voted for what and eliminate the votes which 'could' be someone voting twice (at least once with anonymity).

Agree?
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If you only want registered user votes to count, put it in the Abortion forum.
 
It's a human organism. Just like my finger, my hair, my sperm, etc.

Despite your semantic games, it is however, not a "Human" in terms of being a Homo Sapien.
 
As far as I can tell from the various definitions:

Human Zygote = Human Organism.

I don't see room for debate there.

However, it would also seem that:

Any cell or grouping of cells making up a part of the human body = Human Organism.

So I'm not sure what the point you are trying to make is.
 
Sure it is, just like any single-celled lifeform. Organisms, by definition, are "a form of life considered as an entity; an animal, plant, fungus, protistan, or moneran."

Do you expect that to somehow confer something special to a zygote?
 
Chuz Life said:
I found it odd that so many 'choicers' resist the notion that a human zygote is a "human organism;' even as Planned Parenthood acknowledges in their materials that they are.
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You can call it anything you want, except protected human life.
 
The Mark said:
As far as I can tell from the various definitions:

Human Zygote = Human Organism.

I don't see room for debate there.

However, it would also seem that:

Any cell or grouping of cells making up a part of the human body = Human Organism.

So I'm not sure what the point you are trying to make is.
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One of the points that I have been trying to make is actually being made for me,... I was hoping to show how steeped in denial 'pro-choicers' are. And how far they are willing to go to maintain that denial.

This thread has been very useful for me and for my research.
 
CrusaderRabbit08 said:
Protected = constitutional rights.

In Roe v Wade, the Court said a fetus has no rights until it's viable.
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So why does it have no rights? Meaning, what makes it distinct from the baby that comes out 9 months later? What events gives us our rights?
 
phattonez said:
So why does it have no rights? Meaning, what makes it distinct from the baby that comes out 9 months later? What events gives us our rights?
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The ability to live outside the womb.
 
Chuz Life said:
One of the points that I have been trying to make is actually being made for me,... I was hoping to show how steeped in denial 'pro-choicers' are. And how far they are willing to go to maintain that denial.

This thread has been very useful for me and for my research.
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Ok.

So, basically, what you are saying is that certain persons, who have been grouped and labeled "pro-choice" by you, are unwilling to accept the obviousity which is:

If a zygote is an organism, then:

A human zygote is a human organism.

What I don’t get is why anyone would try to disagree with such an obvious conclusion.

I mean, what effect on the whole “pro-life vs. pro-choice” debate does it have?

A human heart, removed from the human body for transplantation, will live for a time, given the right conditions.

Is that not also a “human organism”?

But it would by no reasonable person be considered a “human being”, or be granted protection from murder/death.
 
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