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Do you have a conceal and carry license?

Do you have a conceal and carry permit?


  • Total voters
    66
I am quite aware that a knife is a lethal weapon, used properly an attacker won't see, they will feel it. Sometimes, however it makes for a good distraction.

As for Aikido, its a good jumping point for dipping into Martial Arts, I have seen it used effectively against multiple attackers. The key is to allow your escape, in some situations that is the only safe option.

Guns, can be effective, you also have to the weigh the risks/liabilities of the situation and above all, be willing to carry out your threat. Shooting a gun at a range, and pointing it at a living breathing person (regardless of the threat they pose) are two separate issues.

Finally my point is, and I maintain, for most people its a liability issue. If an Unarmed mugger demands your purse, and you pull a gun, in my state you would be Arrested. The mugger would have every right to sue you.

Unless there is a direct threat, or a real fear (i.e. work in the bad part of town), carrying concealed, is kinda dumb. Whens the last time any of you had a gun put to there face? I've put myself in those situations, a gun on my end would just have escalated the whole mess.

As for the poster with the .45 comment. If a perp has a weapon drawn on me, and mines in my holster concealed, what are the chances he's going to let me pull, sight and fire? Unlikely.
 
I am quite aware that a knife is a lethal weapon, used properly an attacker won't see, they will feel it. Sometimes, however it makes for a good distraction.

As for Aikido, its a good jumping point for dipping into Martial Arts, I have seen it used effectively against multiple attackers. The key is to allow your escape, in some situations that is the only safe option.

Guns, can be effective, you also have to the weigh the risks/liabilities of the situation and above all, be willing to carry out your threat. Shooting a gun at a range, and pointing it at a living breathing person (regardless of the threat they pose) are two separate issues.

Finally my point is, and I maintain, for most people its a liability issue. If an Unarmed mugger demands your purse, and you pull a gun, in my state you would be Arrested. The mugger would have every right to sue you.

Unless there is a direct threat, or a real fear (i.e. work in the bad part of town), carrying concealed, is kinda dumb. Whens the last time any of you had a gun put to there face? I've put myself in those situations, a gun on my end would just have escalated the whole mess.

As for the poster with the .45 comment. If a perp has a weapon drawn on me, and mines in my holster concealed, what are the chances he's going to let me pull, sight and fire? Unlikely.


I shot an unarmed mugger one time-he and his partner jumped me in an alley and started beating on me when I put a 9mm through his stomach, blowing out his rectum. I wasn't even arrested.
 
I shot an unarmed mugger one time-he and his partner jumped me in an alley and started beating on me when I put a 9mm through his stomach, blowing out his rectum. I wasn't even arrested.

Beating on you, upgrades it to Felony Assault, reasonable fear for your life, weapons use is justified.

I am an Armed Security Guard, I'm quite aware (state licensed) of when you can and can't pull a gun. I've seen people who have guns, reach for them before the situation played out far enough for them to legally draw. They get arrested and processed.
 
Beating on you, upgrades it to Felony Assault, reasonable fear for your life, weapons use is justified.

I am an Armed Security Guard, I'm quite aware (state licensed) of when you can and can't pull a gun. I've seen people who have guns, reach for them before the situation played out far enough for them to legally draw. They get arrested and processed.

agreed, you have to have reasonable fear of imminent bodily harm
 
I am quite aware that a knife is a lethal weapon, used properly an attacker won't see, they will feel it. Sometimes, however it makes for a good distraction.

As for Aikido, its a good jumping point for dipping into Martial Arts, I have seen it used effectively against multiple attackers. The key is to allow your escape, in some situations that is the only safe option.

Guns, can be effective, you also have to the weigh the risks/liabilities of the situation and above all, be willing to carry out your threat. Shooting a gun at a range, and pointing it at a living breathing person (regardless of the threat they pose) are two separate issues.

Yes, if you're going to carry, then you need to make up your mind that you'll use it... personally I don't see this as a huge issue. If you don't think you'd pull the trigger, don't carry.

Finally my point is, and I maintain, for most people its a liability issue. If an Unarmed mugger demands your purse, and you pull a gun, in my state you would be Arrested. The mugger would have every right to sue you.

I don't know what state you live in, but I'm glad I don't live there.
In my state, as in most to my knowlege, the totality of circumstances is considered. If the victim is a 70yo woman and the unarmed mugger is a healthy 20yo male, she would likely be held justified. If the victim was an average size man and the mugger was a 6'6" 300 lb monster, ditto.
In my state, a mugger suing his victim would be laughed out of court.


Unless there is a direct threat, or a real fear (i.e. work in the bad part of town), carrying concealed, is kinda dumb.

Thank you so much for calling millions of people who have jumped through the legal hoops, went to classes and passed tests and background checks "kinda dumb". Generally if you go thru all that, it is becuase you feel you have a fairly good reason.

Whens the last time any of you had a gun put to there face?

It has been some years, but it has happened, more than once. That is part of why I carry, because I know from personal experience that **** happens.

I've put myself in those situations, a gun on my end would just have escalated the whole mess.
You've PUT yourself in those situations? I'm not sure what that means... you mean hypothetically?
Well, having been on the wrong end of a gun for real, I prefer being armed thank you.

As for the poster with the .45 comment. If a perp has a weapon drawn on me, and mines in my holster concealed, what are the chances he's going to let me pull, sight and fire? Unlikely.

Context and circumstances. Awareness is key in all self-defense situations.
For instance, two probable-muggers tried to set me up for a "pincer" move. This is where one gets your attention from the front, while the other smokes you from behind. When the first guy exhibited body language and actions that made me uncomfortable, I moved to the side when he was still at a distance, and got a look behind me --- and I saw his partner coming up from behind. Moving to a position where I could see both at once, I put my hand on my firearm. They stopped, looked at each other... and quickly left the area.
That's an example of awareness and pre-emptive action, staying ahead of the curve...but IF they were armed (and I expect they were) and I was NOT, they might have started something even after I "got off the X". Taking a fighting stance or pulling a knife might not have had the same deterrent value.

I am an Armed Security Guard, I'm quite aware (state licensed) of when you can and can't pull a gun. I've seen people who have guns, reach for them before the situation played out far enough for them to legally draw. They get arrested and processed.

Nice to meet ya, I'm an ex-cop. :2wave:
A lot of that depends on how self-defense-friendly your state's laws are. My state is very friendly to upstanding citizens defending themself.
 
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As an afterward, there's nothing wrong with having options.

I have martial arts training and combatives experience, and while I'm getting a bit old I'm not adverse to going HTH if it seems called for. There's an OC spray on my keyring in case I feel the need to "equalize" the situation a bit.

I also carry a knife, and a gun, daily. I like having multiple options as to force level.

But come down to it, I don't like being unarmed. The world is not a safe place, and criminals tend to use weapons. Bottom line, for me.
 
I shot an unarmed mugger one time-he and his partner jumped me in an alley and started beating on me when I put a 9mm through his stomach, blowing out his rectum. I wasn't even arrested.
Good for you. Let me buy you a Beer sometime.
 
But come down to it, I don't like being unarmed. The world is not a safe place, and criminals tend to use weapons. Bottom line, for me.

That's great, for You! As you stated clearly, you are an ex-cop, I'm sure you have a Tremendous amount of training and real-world experience.

In my state, a concealed pistol license, is paperwork. There is no training, or class. It is just a form with an application fee.

Sheesh, its hard to take anyone in this thread seriously, I'm not advocating that guns should be restricted at all, merely, that all options should be considered, and that carrying concealed (for me) is a last resort, generally done when I feel there is a direct threat against me, and find it necessary to carry. Just because "something" could happen, doesn't strike me as good enough to walk around crowded streets (imho, in a large city, makes a gun next to useless, compared to other alternative options), armed.

I'm also tired of countless citizens, who feel empowered by guns. When they pull it on a hardened criminal, they're just as likely to get it snatched from there hand. What I'm really getting on about, is the people I've seen with permits, didn't take it as serious as they should have, and with enough thought, might have reconsidered.

As for referencing getting a gun pulled on me, its happened, my gun, was out of easy reach at the time and concealed. Had I made a move for it, I could have been shot, or someone next to me. In the end, 10 bucks out of my wallet, and the guy walks. Police caught him 15 blocks over. Guns, escalate any situation to life threatening, sometimes its just not worth it.

Sure its a right, and your free to exercise it. I just question, whether the average person who chooses to carry concealed, actually needs to. Heh, am I the only person raising the question of the liability (both criminal and civil) that you put yourself in when you carry.
 
That's great, for You! As you stated clearly, you are an ex-cop, I'm sure you have a Tremendous amount of training and real-world experience.

Thank you. It has also been my pleasure to work with a lot of people who were simply citizens, with no military or police background, who had carry permits and wished to upgrade their skills.

More on that below...

In my state, a concealed pistol license, is paperwork. There is no training, or class. It is just a form with an application fee.

In my state, you have to take a class which covers legal and liability aspects, and you have to go to the range and demonstrate that you can shoot with reasonable accuracy and handle your weapon safely.


Sheesh, its hard to take anyone in this thread seriously, I'm not advocating that guns should be restricted at all, merely, that all options should be considered, and that carrying concealed (for me) is a last resort, generally done when I feel there is a direct threat against me, and find it necessary to carry. Just because "something" could happen, doesn't strike me as good enough to walk around crowded streets (imho, in a large city, makes a gun next to useless, compared to other alternative options), armed.

Let's look at that "something" that could happen.
Do you wear a seatbelt? Are you expecting to crash? No? Then why wear one, other than the law... because if you are in an unexpected crash and don't have one on, the consequences could be disasterous, no matter how unlikely a crash might seem as you're driving along listening to the radio.
Sometimes the severity of the consequences makes certain precautions worthwhile. Heathcare insurance, for example...you're 22 years old, you said elsewhere. You probably don't need heathcare insurance...but if you get seriously hurt and are hospitalized, you could be in debt for $100,000 if you're uninsured. See my point?



I'm also tired of countless citizens, who feel empowered by guns. When they pull it on a hardened criminal, they're just as likely to get it snatched from there hand. What I'm really getting on about, is the people I've seen with permits, didn't take it as serious as they should have, and with enough thought, might have reconsidered.

As I've said, I've worked with lots of Ordinary Citizens (tm) who were CCW permit holders. Many of them took it all quite seriously and were seeking to upgrade their skills. Some were already first-rate shooters and were looking to get even better.
Frankly, I think a lot of armed citizens compare favorably with most police officers. A lot of cops I knew were poor gunhandlers; I saw several do some very unsafe things with their sidearms. Most cops I knew were not nearly as keen on shelling out their own money and time for professional training to upgrade their skills, as many of the armed citizens I've associated with. Many cops just seemed to think "well, I've been to the academy, that's good enough." (Um, it's okay but not that great.)

By the way, if just snatching a gun away from someone is so easy, then just snatch it back. :mrgreen: Hint: it isn't that easy in most cases.

In short, my experience with permit-holding citizens has been very positive, and at forty-something years old I'm drawing on a pretty large pool of experiences. (one of the few positives about getting older, lol.)

As for referencing getting a gun pulled on me, its happened, my gun, was out of easy reach at the time and concealed. Had I made a move for it, I could have been shot, or someone next to me. In the end, 10 bucks out of my wallet, and the guy walks. Police caught him 15 blocks over. Guns, escalate any situation to life threatening, sometimes its just not worth it.

Again, I refer to awareness and making the right moves to stay ahead of the curve, something I teach in all my SD classes. While not all situations are best solved by gunplay, again, when you need a gun you probably need it bad. There are far worse things than robbers out there, and someone runs afoul of them every day. "Someone" could be "you" some day.


Sure its a right, and your free to exercise it. I just question, whether the average person who chooses to carry concealed, actually needs to. Heh, am I the only person raising the question of the liability (both criminal and civil) that you put yourself in when you carry.

It isn't my business, or your business, to decide for someone whether carrying is a good idea for them and their circumstances. Each person makes that choice. Most of those I know, who went to the bother of the classes and etc getting a CCW, had what they considered adequate reasons. If you pay attention in class when they're covering legal issues and cautions, and apply common sense and act morally, you're not likely to end up in trouble.

Concealed-carry permit holders are, as a subclass of people, far more law-abiding than the general population. There are plenty of stats to prove it, in example:


Concealed carry in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

North Carolina reports only 0.2% of their 263,102 holders had their license revoked in the 10 years since they have adopted the law.[61]

Permit holders are a remarkably law-abiding subclass of the population. Florida, which has issued over 1,408,907 permits in twenty one years, has revoked only 166 for a "crime after licensure involving a firearm," and fewer than 4,500 permits for any reason.[62]

Your concerns about CCW's do not appear to be supported by available data.

Last but not least, this is a free country: you make your choices and you live with the consequences. If you don't feel the need to carry, or don't think it is a good choice for you, then don't carry. I think, though, that you might realize now that you ought to show just a smidge more respect for those who do choose to exercise that right, since the evidence says that they rarely ever get themselves into the kinds of trouble you're attributing to them.
 
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Your concerns about CCW's do not appear to be supported by available data.
Last but not least, this is a free country: you make your choices and you live with the consequences. If you don't feel the need to carry, or don't think it is a good choice for you, then don't carry. I think, though, that you might realize now that you ought to show just a smidge more respect for those who do choose to exercise that right, since the evidence says that they rarely ever get themselves into the kinds of trouble you're attributing to them.

I havn't shown anyone, any disrespect. Disagreeing isn't a sign of disrespect, nor is stating facts from my own personal life experiences involving guns, and gun owners. Guess we can agree to disagree, I've stated my opinion thoroughly. Nothing more to add.
 
I havn't shown anyone, any disrespect. Disagreeing isn't a sign of disrespect, nor is stating facts from my own personal life experiences involving guns, and gun owners. Guess we can agree to disagree, I've stated my opinion thoroughly. Nothing more to add.

Well, I'm afraid I'd have to disagree with you again, young man.

These are your words:

Unless there is a direct threat, or a real fear (i.e. work in the bad part of town), carrying concealed, is kinda dumb.

I'm also tired of countless citizens, who feel empowered by guns. When they pull it on a hardened criminal, they're just as likely to get it snatched from there hand. What I'm really getting on about, is the people I've seen with permits, didn't take it as serious as they should have, and with enough thought, might have reconsidered.

Sheesh, its hard to take anyone in this thread seriously

Maybe its because I'm an old fart, but I'd consider quite a bit of that to be showing disrespect for those who carry. You said their actions were "kinda dumb", implied they were power tripping, implied they were so incompetent that some thug would just snatch their gun away from them, that they didn't think it through and if they had they would have reconsidered getting a carry permit. In short, you did everything but come right out and call the majority of permit holders inbred hillbilly cretins.

Yet, the facts show that permit holders get into far less trouble than the general population... Thus my suggestion that you might show a measure of respect for them, which to this point was decidedly (and deliberately) lacking.
 
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I shot an unarmed mugger one time-he and his partner jumped me in an alley and started beating on me when I put a 9mm through his stomach, blowing out his rectum. I wasn't even arrested.
Ouch ... I bet that made him popular in the prison yard!
 
Ouch ... I bet that made him popular in the prison yard!

well one of the funniest things in that unfortunate incident was when the judge asked the DA what the biggest problem was facing the mugger and the DA said "his first date in prison" (he got three years-most of it was for violating parole, the assault was not as serious)
 
Well, I'm afraid I'd have to disagree with you again, young man.

These are your words:







Maybe its because I'm an old fart, but I'd consider quite a bit of that to be showing disrespect for those who carry. You said their actions were "kinda dumb", implied they were power tripping, implied they were so incompetent that some thug would just snatch their gun away from them, that they didn't think it through and if they had they would have reconsidered getting a carry permit. In short, you did everything but come right out and call the majority of permit holders inbred hillbilly cretins.

Yet, the facts show that permit holders get into far less trouble than the general population... Thus my suggestion that you might show a measure of respect for them, which to this point was decidedly (and deliberately) lacking.

Again, I'm not an anti-gun nut, I have a concealed pistol license. Personally, I would never conceal, unless I felt it was NECESSARY, for me that means a direct threat against my life. Just the "possibility" that something "might" happen, doesn't do it for me, that one should carry a dangerous weapon around. Honestly, and without a doubt my MAIN point, that when it comes to SELF-DEFENSE, Guns are a LAST resort. Heck, reading through this thread, it seems (and I refer in part to the topic starter), that people havn't considered other options. Nor, do they consider the LEGAL RAMIFICATIONS, of drawing or using their gun. You, best of all in this thread should know Use of Force Doctrine. Sheesh, as I said, thats my personal feelings on when people should carry.

For you, its one of many in your arsenal for self-defense. But, I'm not going to blindly say, everyone should carry, nor even recommend it. Seriously, of permit holders, how many carry on a regular basis, find that stat for me. For some its the novelty of it. Most people can't carry it in to work, and do you really want to leave it locked in your car? Damn, there is 5 days a week, your walking un-armed.

Seriously, there are other and better options out there. Guns, at least to me speak to the single-minded approach a lot of us take to self-defense. That doesn't apply to you, but to suggest it doesn't apply to anyone with a permit...get off it. Seriously, what is it with guns and American culture that we get so damn Touchy-Feely, when someone just disagrees.

And that is why I feel I havn't shown disrespect. I don't agree with a lot of things in our society, but heck, we have the Freedom to do as we please for the most part. And I'm happy we do.


And for **** sake, it is hard to take this thread seriously. Its a poll on who has a permit or not, and there is very little discussion or debate, and quite a few cowboys.
 
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Again, I'm not an anti-gun nut, I have a concealed pistol license. Personally, I would never conceal, unless I felt it was NECESSARY, for me that means a direct threat against my life. Just the "possibility" that something "might" happen, doesn't do it for me, that one should carry a dangerous weapon around. Honestly, and without a doubt my MAIN point, that when it comes to SELF-DEFENSE, Guns are a LAST resort. Heck, reading through this thread, it seems (and I refer in part to the topic starter), that people havn't considered other options. Nor, do they consider the LEGAL RAMIFICATIONS, of drawing or using their gun. You, best of all in this thread should know Use of Force Doctrine. Sheesh, as I said, thats my personal feelings on when people should carry.

For you, its one of many in your arsenal for self-defense. But, I'm not going to blindly say, everyone should carry, nor even recommend it. Seriously, of permit holders, how many carry on a regular basis, find that stat for me. For some its the novelty of it. Most people can't carry it in to work, and do you really want to leave it locked in your car? Damn, there is 5 days a week, your walking un-armed.

I doubt there are any credible statistics on how many permit holders carry regularly, and how regularly they carry. I'd have to go with anecdotal evidence on that one. I know people who have a permit so that if they feel theatened at any point, they can legally carry... which you said is your own position. I know others who carry only under certain circumstances, and others who carry about 24/7.
Some places of business are posted against carry, some are not. If yours is, then whether it is worth it to you to leave your gun locked in the car so that it is there for you when you go somewhere after work, or when you arrive home... personal decision based on your own needs and priorities.


Seriously, there are other and better options out there. Guns, at least to me speak to the single-minded approach a lot of us take to self-defense. That doesn't apply to you, but to suggest it doesn't apply to anyone with a permit...get off it. Seriously, what is it with guns and American culture that we get so damn Touchy-Feely, when someone just disagrees.

And that is why I feel I havn't shown disrespect. I don't agree with a lot of things in our society, but heck, we have the Freedom to do as we please for the most part. And I'm happy we do.


And for **** sake, it is hard to take this thread seriously. Its a poll on who has a permit or not, and there is very little discussion or debate, and quite a few cowboys.

The OP question was about who has a permit, not who carries OC or a knife, or has a martial arts background, so naturally guns are the main topic of conversation. I don't disagree that guns are one option within a well-structured self-protection plan... just that in my experience they are a pretty important option.

None of that changes the fact that you took a very high-handed attitude towards 'Joe Average Citizen with a Carry Permit' that was highly critical, disparaging and dismissive; let which lacked factual support as I have demonstrated. The plain fact is that your characterization of permit holders as uninformed, unskilled, uncommitted, Wyatt-Earp-wannabees has been demonstrated to be contrary to the facts. For some reason you just don't want to admit it, even to the point of trying to deny that you mischaracterized permit-holders in a very negative manner. Simply reading back over your posts proves otherwise.

These are your words:


Quote:
Unless there is a direct threat, or a real fear (i.e. work in the bad part of town), carrying concealed, is kinda dumb.

Quote:
I'm also tired of countless citizens, who feel empowered by guns. When they pull it on a hardened criminal, they're just as likely to get it snatched from there hand. What I'm really getting on about, is the people I've seen with permits, didn't take it as serious as they should have, and with enough thought, might have reconsidered.


It takes a man of character to admit he was mistaken about something. Are you a man of character, or will you persist in this denial?
 
If you feel I've been disrespectful, well some people don't deserve any.
 
If you feel I've been disrespectful, well some people don't deserve any.

Who would those "some people" be?

Those permit holders you've encountered whom you formed a negative viewpoint about? How many would that be, as a 22yo Armed Security Guard...2? 10? 20? It doesn't seem the number could be much higher.

If you wish to reaffirm the assumption that your negative view of CCW people is based on an irrational, or at best limited-anecdotal, prejudice, then statements like that certainly add fuel to the fire.

I've posted these stats:

Concealed carry in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

North Carolina reports only 0.2% of their 263,102 holders had their license revoked in the 10 years since they have adopted the law.[61]

Permit holders are a remarkably law-abiding subclass of the population. Florida, which has issued over 1,408,907 permits in twenty one years, has revoked only 166 for a "crime after licensure involving a firearm," and fewer than 4,500 permits for any reason.[62]

I've also looked at stats from Ohio, Tennessee, and other states, and they are similar. "Problem" permit holders number less than 0.3% of the total, yet your previous statements tar the majority with charges of incompetence bordering on idiocy. If you tarred any other group, say an ethnic group, based on the actions of 0.3% of that group... well you know what word would be used to describe that.

FYI, Tennesee had a number of instances where CCW's shot perps and were held justified; Tenn had zero incidents where CCW's injured innocent bystanders or shot the wrong person. That puts them slightly ahead of police stats, I'm afraid. :doh

As for whether the desire of CCW's to go armed is rational or irrational...

More Guns, Less Crime - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

John Lott's study is not without controversy, but remains significant:
Lott examines the effects of shall issue laws on violent crime across the United States.

His conclusion is that shall issue laws, which allow citizens to carry concealed weapons, steadily decrease violent crime. He explains that this result makes sense because criminals are deterred by the risk of attacking an armed victim. As more citizens arm themselves, the danger to criminals increases.


Crime in the United States
Chance of Any Single Individual Being a Victim of Violent Crime In Their Lifetime: Currently about 65 to 70%, depending on age, profession, lifestyle, geographic and demographic factors.(US DoJ, FBI UCR)
 
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I am taking a class currently to get my conceal and carry permit.

Does anyone here have this already?

What was your experience with this class and/or the entire process?

My answer to your poll would have been, "Wish I could have one, but I can't in my country". Canada doesn't allow conceal and carry, no matter how many courses you pay for. If you carry concealed weapons here it's automatically illegal.

I'm starting the gun course in March and will apply for a handgun license later. Even if I can't conceal carry I'll at least have some weapons in case stuff goes down.
 
I looked into the situation in my state. If I decided to pursue such a concealed weapon license I would hire somebody to do all the footwork. Probably my friend Chris, the lawyer.

It's just too much stuff I hate to do myself. I've never been arrested which seems to be a big deal.
 
You have to get different licenses based on caliber? Interesting.

shocking.......

Yep.
You apply for a firearms license. Each firearm you register is attached to that license. However in order to import or procure the amunition you have to be registered for that calibre. It's to prevent the legal importation of amunition for suspect calibres. 9MM being the most controlled. It's a throwback to the bad old days of terrorism in Ireland.
 
First off, sorry for the late reply. I spend the weekend north of the border with herself and the kids. That's family time.

You have the rest of your life to win a gunfight.... I don't consider extra ballistics "extra"....
Our disagreement is in the scenario. For a home invasion I disagree that it is a good idea to shoot through solid barriers as your family may be in the line of fire.
That would be my ultimate nightmare.



Like I said, I can conceal a full framed .45 if I need to.... There are other options...
All dependant on your size, your lifestyle etc. You get the one that fits most of your situations because you can keep it with you most of the time.


Reducing caliber for convienence is not a compromise I am willing to make.
Often times that decision may be made for you. As I said it depends on who you are and what you do.






:lol: if she doesn't want to "spring for an expensive rig" then she has no business wanting to CC....
Wanting the best and being able to spring for it are two different things. For example I want a Ferrari. That doesn't mean I should drive a car though. Until I can afford a Ferrari or until I'm in a position to get the best out of a Ferrari, I'll drive my VW. It does the job it's supposed to. Sure it wond do 0-60 in 3sec. But how often is that needed?


This is not a compromise thing... If you need to carry a smaller weapon in your cocktail dress then by all means select the appropriate tool, however, its a severe compromise in effectiveness.
The point being that the lady is only beginning. I feel that it is a much better idea that she is comfortable and competant using a single type of firearm before throwing in a second. I may be underestemating her, but I guess she's at the beginning of a learning curve.



Really, they teach you how to fight and defend yourself with a handgun?



tell me about some of the drills you do.
Ok, here we go.
First off, I was incorrect in saying that.
They do not teach that.
It is illegal in this country to provide that level of training.

The nearest a civillian or non law enforcement can get is Practical Pistol.
That particular discpline is only legal here in the last couple of years.
I want to say 2005, but I'm not sure. My training predates that by about 15 years.

So we may be talking about chalk and cheese. Add to that that what we call 'advanced' is not what you call it.
I'll have to remember that in future.

Apologies.
 
First off, sorry for the late reply. I spend the weekend north of the border with herself and the kids. That's family time.



Our disagreement is in the scenario. For a home invasion I disagree that it is a good idea to shoot through solid barriers as your family may be in the line of fire.
That would be my ultimate nightmare.



Target identification. Target identification. Target Identification.


Did I mention target identification?


I am not advocating shooting unkowingly through a wall, however if the savage is shooting around a hall entrance, Why not aim for the sheetrock?




Also have a plan, that involves the whole family...




All dependant on your size, your lifestyle etc. You get the one that fits most of your situations because you can keep it with you most of the time.

Or you buy a 2nd platform for that scenario.



Often times that decision may be made for you. As I said it depends on who you are and what you do.

like?




Wanting the best and being able to spring for it are two different things. For example I want a Ferrari. That doesn't mean I should drive a car though. Until I can afford a Ferrari or until I'm in a position to get the best out of a Ferrari, I'll drive my VW. It does the job it's supposed to. Sure it wond do 0-60 in 3sec. But how often is that needed?


a ferrarri is half a million. a pistol, of good choice is under 1k. not the same.

and speeding is not the same as fighting for your life.


The point being that the lady is only beginning. I feel that it is a much better idea that she is comfortable and competant using a single type of firearm before throwing in a second. I may be underestemating her, but I guess she's at the beginning of a learning curve.


quite possible, fundamentals with a .22 then jump up to a competent caliber. :shrug:




Ok, here we go.
First off, I was incorrect in saying that.
They do not teach that.
It is illegal in this country to provide that level of training.

The nearest a civillian or non law enforcement can get is Practical Pistol.
That particular discpline is only legal here in the last couple of years.
I want to say 2005, but I'm not sure. My training predates that by about 15 years.

So we may be talking about chalk and cheese. Add to that that what we call 'advanced' is not what you call it.
I'll have to remember that in future.

Apologies.



No worries. When I say defense course, keep in mind I have been involved in teaching and training both carbine and pistol for 15+ years. owning a gun and hitting paper with it is not adequate training in the use of a weapon for self defense, and I argue it could make you more dangerous....


Training. training, and more training. Train like your life depended on it.




I find it shocking that in your country, self defense is illegal. :shock:
 
Again, I'm not an anti-gun nut, I have a concealed pistol license. Personally, I would never conceal, unless I felt it was NECESSARY, for me that means a direct threat against my life. Just the "possibility" that something "might" happen, doesn't do it for me, that one should carry a dangerous weapon around. Honestly, and without a doubt my MAIN point, that when it comes to SELF-DEFENSE, Guns are a LAST resort. Heck, reading through this thread, it seems (and I refer in part to the topic starter), that people havn't considered other options. Nor, do they consider the LEGAL RAMIFICATIONS, of drawing or using their gun. You, best of all in this thread should know Use of Force Doctrine. Sheesh, as I said, thats my personal feelings on when people should carry.

For you, its one of many in your arsenal for self-defense. But, I'm not going to blindly say, everyone should carry, nor even recommend it. Seriously, of permit holders, how many carry on a regular basis, find that stat for me. For some its the novelty of it. Most people can't carry it in to work, and do you really want to leave it locked in your car? Damn, there is 5 days a week, your walking un-armed.

Seriously, there are other and better options out there. Guns, at least to me speak to the single-minded approach a lot of us take to self-defense. That doesn't apply to you, but to suggest it doesn't apply to anyone with a permit...get off it. Seriously, what is it with guns and American culture that we get so damn Touchy-Feely, when someone just disagrees.

And that is why I feel I havn't shown disrespect. I don't agree with a lot of things in our society, but heck, we have the Freedom to do as we please for the most part. And I'm happy we do.


And for **** sake, it is hard to take this thread seriously. Its a poll on who has a permit or not, and there is very little discussion or debate, and quite a few cowboys.




dood you keep throwing out insults, is there a reason for this? I mean, you claim you don't show disrespect then you do just that....

Taking from your statements such as taking aikido is a good way to defend oneself in a gunfight or ever, I can only surmise that you are ignorant to what it takes to survive in a life or death altercation.
 
Target identification. Target identification. Target Identification.


Did I mention target identification?
Yep, and over penetration. Basically knowing what is beyond your target


I am not advocating shooting unkowingly through a wall, however if the savage is shooting around a hall entrance, Why not aim for the sheetrock?
If you can gaurentee hitting your target, yep. My nightmare would be missing and the round going through a plasterboard wall and into the next room.




Also have a plan, that involves the whole family...
Sounds good.



A middle school teacher? cocktail waitress? Anywhere where it could be difficult to conceal, or if carrying may be frowned upon.







a ferrarri is half a million. a pistol, of good choice is under 1k. not the same.

and speeding is not the same as fighting for your life.
The point is stilll somewhat valid even if the analogy isn't I believe.


I find it shocking that in your country, self defense is illegal. :shock:
It's not and never was illegal exactly... Basically you needed to show that your life was in danger. Lead to all sorts of issues did that.
For example if you shot someone who was armed with a less than leathal weapon you were in trouble.
But what is a less than leathal weapon I hear you ask?
That's a good question...

If you shot someone outside your front door, or halfway through your window, you were in trouble.

That is changing again at the moment to make the homeowner less culpable and to put the burden of proof more on the intruder.
 
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