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Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

  • yes,-- everybody should be treated equal

    Votes: 69 74.2%

  • No--some people should recieve preferential treatment

    Votes: 24 25.8%
  • Total voters
    93
CaptainCourtesy said:
Is it time for a group hug yet?

:2grouphug
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You can always tell when the Captain is around. Everyone calms down and gets all fuzzy. I think it is the beer, but you never know. ;)
 
The Mark said:
But, you see...

There is no discussion possible on that question. It is an obvious "yes". As everyone realizes this, automatically, without thinking, it is immediately discarded, and focus turns to the slightly related topic of whether or not gay marriage should be made legal.

:mrgreen:
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I see your point--so do carry on. Take it where it goes, the votes are pretty much in, danglin chads and all.
 
Blackdog said:
You can always tell when the Captain is around. Everyone calms down and gets all fuzzy. I think it is the beer, but you never know. ;)
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Eh, it's a gift. ;)
 
Blackdog said:
You can always tell when the Captain is around. Everyone calms down and gets all fuzzy. I think it is the beer, but you never know. ;)
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I'm having a vodka drink ya looney bird:mrgreen:
 
Skateguy said:
I brought this up on another thread the other night. It just kind of rolled out in response to a "Gays getting married" thread.--but the more I think about,the more it seems like a legitimate question. I ask why would two people of the same sex, have to be homosexual to get married? --Because once married, they would then be able enjoy the benefits that go along with being married. Such as tax Breaks, special insurance rates, and so on. If Two Homo Men can get Married legally, then why couldn't two straight Men get married also? (Not that I would want to, but just sayin) Just seems to be more discrimination against Straight Guys to me. Male is Male, and Female is Female, regardless of sexual orientation.-So my question is, if made legal, should two people of the same sex be allowed to marry, whether they are Homosexuals or not? ---this could be interesting
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"...couldn't two straight Men get married also? (Not that I would want to, but just sayin) Just seems to be more discrimination against Straight Guys to me."

I never heard that argument before.
It is a good one. :2razz::2razz::2razz:
 
:damn

Blackdog said:
Read the thread. We have covered this already.
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Ugh, you know what? Fine. I guess this is what I get for coming in late -.-
If I get bored and suddenly have all this time, I'll scroll through all this just for you.

Blackdog said:
You do have the right to live someplace else?
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I'm not so sure any country is as good as America as far as freedom goes. But that has nothing to do with what I said.
So, that doesn't irk you in the least bit? That you have a say in someone else's happiness? It drives me insane because it isn't right at all.

Blackdog said:
And he is the only one who can judge that. All we can do is try to follow his word to the best of our understanding.
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You honestly believe he would send innocent people to Hell simply for liking someone with the same physical traits as them? If God is that way, then I want nothing to do with Him or His Heaven.

Blackdog said:
That has nothing to do with my response as far as I can tell.
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I'm just really trying to comprehend your way of thinking. If you really think about it, that's all it is. Two people who have the same private parts love each other. I was asking you if that's a big deal to you.

Blackdog said:
It was just an example. How did I know I was going to have to explain that. :roll:
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What?! You can't roll your eyes at me for saying what I said. That's a bad example. I should be rolling my eyes at you for comparing a murderer to a homosexual! Yeah, I'd expect an explanation from that kind of talk.

Blackdog said:
So what?
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So what? That's it?
This country is allowing one group of peoples' beliefs run everything and all you can say is "so what...""

You have to have compassion for these people. If you were in their shoes, you'd want someone to care, wouldn't you?

You'd want someone to say that all this ****ing bull**** isn't right. It's like bullying. They're forcing a minority group into submission because of their intolerance and refusal to accept a different type of human.

Not everyone is a Christian. You can't force everyone to abide by your rules that come from a book we don't all believe in. '

What about Atheists? They don't believe in ****! As long as it's a man and a woman, though, they're fine. How does that make sense?

Blackdog said:
OK. Have fun with that.
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Have fun with what?

You think it's fun to live in a world like this? Imagine how the gay people feel. You're so stand-offish about this because it doesn't affect you. You're not even going to respond at all?

Do you not believe that everyone should have the right to pursue happiness? You think it's okay for the Christians and bigots of this country to be able to get married and be content while homosexuals live out their lives in misery?
It's okay for everyone to practically be forced to be a Christian person?

:soap
 
MsCommonSensiality said:
Ugh, you know what? Fine. I guess this is what I get for coming in late -.-
If I get bored and suddenly have all this time, I'll scroll through all this just for you.
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You don't have to do all that, but it does get boring repeating the same things over and over.

MsCommonSensiality said:
I'm not so sure any country is as good as America as far as freedom goes. But that has nothing to do with what I said.
So, that doesn't irk you in the least bit? That you have a say in someone else's happiness? It drives me insane because it isn't right at all.
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I ment the state, not the country. There are states that have legal gay marriages.

In the country I live in I have the same right to follow my moral compass as anyone else. If gay marrage became Federal law tomorrow, I would not really care, but if it was put to a vote, I would vote against it.

As I have explained time and time again to others with closed ears. I have no fear or hatred of anyone who is gay. In fact I love them as much as anyone else, but I will not support the sin.

No. I don't feel bad about it at all.

MsCommonSensiality said:
You honestly believe he would send innocent people to Hell simply for liking someone with the same physical traits as them? If God is that way, then I want nothing to do with Him or His Heaven.
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I assume that he would considering he torched entire city's including women and children for being disobedient. Lets also not forget his cursing people for many generations after.

He is a loving God, but also demands his children be obedient.

The wages of sin is death.

MsCommonSensiality said:
I'm just really trying to comprehend your way of thinking. If you really think about it, that's all it is. Two people who have the same private parts love each other. I was asking you if that's a big deal to you.
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No, not one bit. I know this sounds bad but I and my wife have had, and do have many gay friends. I don't really care if they are gay. I treat them with respect and in return they do the same. They also know I do not condone the gay relationships they are in. I do not rub it in the faces of my Friends, but I also do not encourage it.

So I love the sinner and hate the sin. As I am commanded to do.

MsCommonSensiality said:
What?! You can't roll your eyes at me for saying what I said. That's a bad example. I should be rolling my eyes at you for comparing a murderer to a homosexual! Yeah, I'd expect an explanation from that kind of talk.
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I was rolling my eyes at the fact that you and many others constantly attack the example rather then the point. The point was about sin, and the fact I believe in no levels of sin. Sin is sin, whether it be a murderer, thief, liar or a homosexual relationship.

MsCommonSensiality said:
So what? That's it?
This country is allowing one group of peoples' beliefs run everything and all you can say is "so what...""
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Yes. As I said I don't care that much about the issue. I think it is wrong to allow it, so why would I care?

MsCommonSensiality said:
You have to have compassion for these people. If you were in their shoes, you'd want someone to care, wouldn't you?
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I do care insomuch as I support Civil Unions, with all the rights of heterosexual marraige. I cannot and will not accept two men as a marraige.

Marraige is a religious institution to me. It would no longer be that if other than 1 man and 1 women were to make a marraige.

MsCommonSensiality said:
You'd want someone to say that all this ****ing bull**** isn't right. It's like bullying. They're forcing a minority group into submission because of their intolerance and refusal to accept a different type of human.
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They are not a different type of human, they are simply humans. They are sinners like the rest of us. We are all born into it. I will not legitimize sin.

MsCommonSensiality said:
Not everyone is a Christian. You can't force everyone to abide by your rules that come from a book we don't all believe in. '
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That is fine, but that does not change or influence my decision not to support it.

I am one voice in a sea of many, they have as much say in government as I do.

MsCommonSensiality said:
What about Atheists? They don't believe in ****! As long as it's a man and a woman, though, they're fine. How does that make sense?
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We have s system of laws in place. If the people want it, it can happen. If they do not, it will not.

I am one voice in a sea of many, they have as much say in government as I do.

MsCommonSensiality said:
You think it's fun to live in a world like this? Imagine how the gay people feel. You're so stand-offish about this because it doesn't affect you. You're not even going to respond at all?
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I have lots of gay friends, they seem to be having a great time down here in Florida. It does not look like they are suffering to me.

In fact a majority of them don't even care about the marraige issue. Much like myself. Hmmm... Birds of a feather.

MsCommonSensiality said:
Do you not believe that everyone should have the right to pursue happiness?
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That would depend on what they are pursuing to make themselves happy. Lets say a member of NAMBLA was seeking their form of happiness, would you still say yes?

It is again an example. I am not in any way comparing gays to child molesters.

I should not even have to say that.

MsCommonSensiality said:
You think it's okay for the Christians and bigots of this country to be able to get married and be content while homosexuals live out their lives in misery?
It's okay for everyone to practically be forced to be a Christian person?

:soap
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:roll:
 
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Blackdog said:
I assume that he would considering he torched entire city's including women and children for being disobedient. Lets also not forget his cursing people for many generations after.

He is a loving God, but also demands his children be obedient.
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I don't believe in a God like that. But you're welcome to.

The question is - why should the marriages of other people live up to your beliefs? If you think gay marriage is wrong, don't marry another man. Let gays deal with God themselves. Mind your own business.
 
Man, I just back from fallin of an eight foot ladder in the garage---whew--not as young as I use to was. busted my butt royal like.
 
misterman said:
I don't believe in a God like that. But you're welcome to.

The question is - why should the marriages of other people live up to your beliefs? If you think gay marriage is wrong, don't marry another man. Let gays deal with God themselves. Mind your own business.
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Like I discussed with Tucker earlier, I do believe in the moral decline of a society. Gay marraige as I see it, is another part of that decline.

So if I can at least slow it down, I see it as a plus.
 
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Skateguy said:
Man, I just back from fallin of an eight foot ladder in the garage---whew--not as young as I use to was. busted my butt royal like.
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Sorry to hear that. Are you going to be all right???
 
Blackdog said:
No, not one bit. I know this sounds bad but I and my wife have had, and do have many gay friends. I don't really care if they are gay. I treat them with respect and in return they do the same. They also know I do not condone the gay relationships they are in. I do not rub it in the faces of my Friends, but I also do not encourage it.

So I love the sinner and hate the sin. As I am commanded to do.
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Where are you commanded to do that? It's one thing for you to read the scriptures and determine that you believe that homosexuality is wrong (for you). It's another thing, entirely, for you to take it upon yourself to judge what other people do. A story about specks and logs comes to mind.

I wonder if you spend an equal amount of time crusading to have infidelity & fornication banned, given that they are all equal acts in the eyes of God.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
Where are you commanded to do that? It's one thing for you to read the scriptures and determine that you believe that homosexuality is wrong (for you). It's another thing, entirely, for you to take it upon yourself to judge what other people do. A story about specks and logs comes to mind.
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It's actually from St. Augustine. His letter 211 (c. 424) contains the phrase Cum dilectione hominum et odio vitiorum, which translates roughly as "With love for mankind and hatred of sins."

This has nothing to do with sitting in judgment of anyone. I do however sit in judgment of the sin.

Even the Devil can quote scripture out of context all day, and it means nothing.

Now lets look at what Jesus said about sin...

Matthew 18:7-9 "Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to sin! Such things must come, but woe to the man through whom they come! 8 If your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire. 9 And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell."

Looks pretty cut and dry to me.

Catz Part Deux said:
I wonder if you spend an equal amount of time crusading to have infidelity & fornication banned, given that they are all equal acts in the eyes of God.
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Yes I do.
 
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Funny thing about that "moral decline of society" thing--it's much easier to judge AFTER the fact than when you're in it. I'm reminded of Girolamo Savonarola, a leader against "moral decline" in his era. Turns out he was opposing the Renaissance!
 
Rassales said:
Funny thing about that "moral decline of society" thing--it's much easier to judge AFTER the fact than when you're in it. I'm reminded of Girolamo Savonarola, a leader against "moral decline" in his era. Turns out he was opposing the Renaissance!
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To many paintings of nasty Nakid People. tha shame.:mrgreen:
 
Rassales said:
Funny thing about that "moral decline of society" thing--it's much easier to judge AFTER the fact than when you're in it. I'm reminded of Girolamo Savonarola, a leader against "moral decline" in his era. Turns out he was opposing the Renaissance!
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He was trying to start a theocracy, HUGE difference.

He was also by what I read not opposing the Renaissance. That is really a stretch.
 
Blackdog said:
He was trying to start a theocracy, HUGE difference.

He was also by what I read not opposing the Renaissance. That is really a stretch.
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He certainly was. He opposed, for example, the new way of painting--because by making the Madonna look pretty and animated and real, painters were turning her into a WHORE (his words). He opposed the "new knowledge" (really the old knowledge of ancient Greek thinkers like Plato) because it was pagan.

The Renaissance was marked by a belief that God wanted humans to make their world beautiful and plentiful--that human reason and creativity were God's crowning gifts to humanity. Savonarola insisted on preserving the medieval perspective--the only proper place for the human soul is in heaven, so anything that ties us to this world (including actions that make our time here more pleasant) is evil. Creating beauty and utility (particularly when an individual inventor or artist takes credit for it) is vanity.
 
Rassales said:
He certainly was. He opposed, for example, the new way of painting--because by making the Madonna look pretty and animated and real, painters were turning her into a WHORE (his words). He opposed the "new knowledge" (really the old knowledge of ancient Greek thinkers like Plato) because it was pagan.
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As I stated I was just going by the small blurb you linked to. It says nothing about any of that.

Rassales said:
The Renaissance was marked by a belief that God wanted humans to make their world beautiful and plentiful--that human reason and creativity were God's crowning gifts to humanity.
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I agree with this.

Rassales said:
Savonarola insisted on preserving the medieval perspective--the only proper place for the human soul is in heaven, so anything that ties us to this world (including actions that make our time here more pleasant) is evil.
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He wanted a theocracy as I said, or at least that what it sounds like.

I do not want nor does the Bible condone a theocracy of any type. The laws in the Bible are for our personal lives, not a governmental system to run a country. That being said, it does not mean our mortality cannot be reflected in our society or government.

Rassales said:
Creating beauty and utility (particularly when an individual inventor or artist takes credit for it) is vanity.
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Creating beauty in and of itself and taking credit is not vain. Bragging about it would turn it into vanity.
 
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Blackdog said:
I do not want nor does the Bible condone a theocracy of any type. The laws in the Bible are for our personal lives, not a governmental system to run a country. That being said, it does not mean our mortality cannot be reflected in our society or government.
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And it is--American morality is based (I think) primarily on the sanctity of individual liberty and equality before the law. It's also secular, in that no sect or religion has a primary claim to influence our laws.
Creating beauty in and of itself and taking credit is not vain.
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Christians did not always think so. For a very long period (and the earliest period) in Christian history, creating beauty was considered competing with God, and admiring man-made beauty was corrupting to the soul, since it distracted from the primary purpose of human existence, the heavenly reward.
 
Rassales said:
And it is--American morality is based (I think) primarily on the sanctity of individual liberty and equality before the law. It's also secular, in that no sect or religion has a primary claim to influence our laws.
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Christianity does have an effect on our laws simply because 70%+ of our nation is self proclaimed Christians.

Even in our secular government, religion does have a say through voting.

Of course this is also true for anyone here no matter what system of beliefs they follow. No one should be silenced.

Rassales said:
Christians did not always think so. For a very long period (and the earliest period) in Christian history, creating beauty was considered competing with God, and admiring man-made beauty was corrupting to the soul, since it distracted from the primary purpose of human existence, the heavenly reward.
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That is true, and it was perpetrated by a corrupt and controlling church of the time.

I mean Christianity has done more then it's share of wrongs in Gods name. Even though the scripture did not condone it. The Crusades, Inquisition and the support of Nazi's during WWII. The holy church is no virgin, and this is exactly the reason Jesus had to die for us.

What does any of this have to do with Gay marraige? I mean if you want to continue this, we should move it to the "Church and State" forum.
 
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Blackdog said:
What does any of this have to do with Gay marraige? I mean if you want to continue this, we should move it to the "Church and State" forum.
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I suppose. My point is this--at moments of great change, there are always people afraid of the next step, but after a time their descendants come to see those changes as right and good, even inevitable. This sort of watershed happens repeatedly throughout history--and terms like "moral decay" are just fear of change. Seems like the decay is constant--is there ever a time when we have "moral build-up" or have we just been falling apart constantly since some ideal moment no one actually remembers?

If we want to talk about problems of morality, consensual sex is among the least important aspect of life, IMHO.
 
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