• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Should traffic fines and other fines be based on the income the offender makes?

Should traffic fines and other fines be based on the income one makes?


  • Total voters
    76
Maybe we should give old people shorter jail sentences, since they have less time to live.

It depends: is the jail sentence for society's protection (keeping the prisoner away from people he might harm), or is it only to inflict punishment on the convict?
 
Do we give out tickets on the basis that they are a deterrent for speeding or do we give them out in order to make people pay for the threat that they are causing to other people?

We give out tickets to make more money for the State.
 
No.

Profiling happens before a crime is committed. You can't get pulled on suspicion of speeding, just speeding.

And profiling involves some characteristic of the driver that's obvious. It's hard to target high income drivers. Perhaps they are targeting Lexus's instead of beat up Volkswagens?

It's assuming that because someone makes more money, they won't understand the effect of the punishment.

Who's to say they won't and why do we always assume that rich people are mustache twisting law breakers?

I think that they will be targeted because of that, look at the income tax, they are targeted first for all tax increases.
 
We give out tickets to make more money for the State.

Ultimately yes. We apparently don't know what the goal of prisons are in our society. There is no consensus. Is it revenge, punishment (kind of blurry between these two options), corrections? There doesn't seem to be a real theory that we follow when it comes to this. Traffic fines are like correction, the death penalty is like revenge, and everything in between seems to be punishment.
 
Should traffic fines and other fines be based on the income the offender makes?

Yes, no ,maybe?

Europe slapping rich with massive traffic fines


European countries are increasingly pegging speeding fines to income as a way to punish wealthy scofflaws who would otherwise ignore tickets.

Advocates say a $290,000 (euro203,180.83) speeding ticket slapped on a millionaire Ferrari driver in Switzerland was a fair and well-deserved example of the trend.

Germany, France, Austria and the Nordic countries also issue punishments based on a person's wealth. In Germany the maximum fine can be as much as $16 million compared to only $1 million in Switzerland. Only Finland regularly hands out similarly hefty fine to speeding drivers, with the current record believed to be a euro170,000 (then about $190,000) ticket in 2004.

The Swiss court appeared to set a world record when it levied the fine in November on a man identified in the Swiss media only as "Roland S." Judges in the eastern canton of St. Gallen described him as a "traffic thug" in their verdict, which only recently came to light.

"As far as we're concerned this is very good," Sabine Jurisch, a road safety campaigner with the Swiss group Road Cross.

And, as usual, our nation is lagging behind.
And, yes!, I agree with the Europeans.
In America, its the poor who are likely to be pulled over for an offense, and there are reasons for this.
These reasons must be known, exactly, and scientifically.
There should always be a positive outcome.
 
No.

Profiling happens before a crime is committed. You can't get pulled on suspicion of speeding, just speeding.

And profiling involves some characteristic of the driver that's obvious. It's hard to target high income drivers. Perhaps they are targeting Lexus's instead of beat up Volkswagens?

What if cops started only picking on the obviously wealthy motorists, because it would mean more revenue?

Yes, it would be profiling.
 
Maybe we should give old people shorter jail sentences, since they have less time to live.
This has been done for years and should be public knowledge. Incarceration should be a thing of the past.There should be a goal to do this..
 
What if cops started only picking on the obviously wealthy motorists, because it would mean more revenue?

Yes, it would be profiling.

It COULD be, if that happened.
 
What if cops started only picking on the obviously wealthy motorists, because it would mean more revenue?

Yes, it would be profiling.


You just convinced me profiling works :mrgreen:
 
Should traffic fines and other fines be based on the income the offender makes?

Yes, no ,maybe?

Europe slapping rich with massive traffic fines


European countries are increasingly pegging speeding fines to income as a way to punish wealthy scofflaws who would otherwise ignore tickets.

Advocates say a $290,000 (euro203,180.83) speeding ticket slapped on a millionaire Ferrari driver in Switzerland was a fair and well-deserved example of the trend.

Germany, France, Austria and the Nordic countries also issue punishments based on a person's wealth. In Germany the maximum fine can be as much as $16 million compared to only $1 million in Switzerland. Only Finland regularly hands out similarly hefty fine to speeding drivers, with the current record believed to be a euro170,000 (then about $190,000) ticket in 2004.

The Swiss court appeared to set a world record when it levied the fine in November on a man identified in the Swiss media only as "Roland S." Judges in the eastern canton of St. Gallen described him as a "traffic thug" in their verdict, which only recently came to light.

"As far as we're concerned this is very good," Sabine Jurisch, a road safety campaigner with the Swiss group Road Cross.

I voted yes in principle, but in reality the government would have to have too much financial information on the person in order to assess their fine level. I wouldn't want cops having access to that information when issuing fines, or any level of government, other than maybe the IRS who is doing taxes. That information is confidential.

Also, as mentioned earlier, the points deduction system applies to all people regardless of financial class, so if you are a routine reckless driver you will still lose your license.
 
And I don't see why it should be any different.

You said, "unless speeding is proven to be related to income", or something to that effect. I just wanted to make it clear.

How exactly is it related? Is the punishment for murder 10-15 for rich people but 25-30 for poor people?

Again, you really don't seem to be grasping the argument here. Time is something whose value is not related to income or wealth; the value of a fixed amount of money is related to income or wealth. I know you're a smart guy so I'm not quite sure why you haven't caught on to this by now.

Again, that's one way to look at how fines work. You could also look at it in terms of total amount

Which, as I have stated repeatedly, punishes poor people more than rich people.

which I think is more logical

How?

administratively simpler

I'll give you that one.

and historically accepted.

Okay, but should we really

As you note, we're talking about all fines, not just speeding. I can think of a dozen federal fines off the top of my head - environmental fines, SEC fines, etc.

If it bothers you that much, it could only apply to state/local fines. Though I still think it's possible to consider it a tax.

It should also be mentioned that the reason the 16th Amendment was necessary was not because it is a "form of profiling", as people are claiming that the same idea for fines here is.

Anyways, would you feel better about it if it was based on net worth, rather than income?

We've had a system like this for the past 90 years and it seems to work just fine. Do all rich people drive 150mph wherever they go, killing children left and right?

Is this really relevant to the fact that rich people aren't as heavily punished for the same crime as poor people?
 
As long as the cop who writes the ticket isn't the one who determined the fine, and isn't rewarded based on the amount of revenue he brings in, I don't see this being a problem. The cop would just issue the ticket and that would be the end of his involvement (assuming the driver doesn't contest it), much as it is now. The cop would have no particular incentive to write tickets for rich guys as opposed to the poor.

great point-speeding tickets are mostly revenue scams (I was a city prosecutor for several years). If this idiotic scheme passes, cops will target expensive cars and leave alone junkers

I have seen this before in dog catcher behavior. They target the poodles of rich ladies in wealthy areas for leash law violations rather than snooping around the biker bars and tough neighborhoods rounding up some mope's pit bull because the rich lady isn't going to bust a cap in their head and she is gonna pay the fine to get FiFi back
 
Last edited:
Should traffic fines and other fines be based on the income the offender makes?

Yes, no ,maybe?

Europe slapping rich with massive traffic fines


European countries are increasingly pegging speeding fines to income as a way to punish wealthy scofflaws who would otherwise ignore tickets.

Advocates say a $290,000 (euro203,180.83) speeding ticket slapped on a millionaire Ferrari driver in Switzerland was a fair and well-deserved example of the trend.

Germany, France, Austria and the Nordic countries also issue punishments based on a person's wealth. In Germany the maximum fine can be as much as $16 million compared to only $1 million in Switzerland. Only Finland regularly hands out similarly hefty fine to speeding drivers, with the current record believed to be a euro170,000 (then about $190,000) ticket in 2004.

The Swiss court appeared to set a world record when it levied the fine in November on a man identified in the Swiss media only as "Roland S." Judges in the eastern canton of St. Gallen described him as a "traffic thug" in their verdict, which only recently came to light.

"As far as we're concerned this is very good," Sabine Jurisch, a road safety campaigner with the Swiss group Road Cross.

I think it's an idea worth considering. A sliding scale of sorts. It makes a whole lot of sense.
 
No, if you're rich, you worked hard to be so, you deserve the money. Why should some people be allowed to pay less fine for the same infraction?
 
It depends how wealthy or poor you are is the way most people will answer. I voted yes cause I'm poor.:(
 
I voted yes in principle, but in reality the government would have to have too much financial information on the person in order to assess their fine level. I wouldn't want cops having access to that information when issuing fines, or any level of government, other than maybe the IRS who is doing taxes. That information is confidential.

Also, as mentioned earlier, the points deduction system applies to all people regardless of financial class, so if you are a routine reckless driver you will still lose your license.
To make sure cops are not the ones getting their hands on that type of information the police would only be allowed to write tickets that only state the percentage(for example someone speeds 10 miles above the speed limit then then fine would be writen .0025% x each mile above the limit 10x .0025% (or double in construction zone)or if it like a parking violation the fine would be a set percentage like .005% )
 
treated unfairly? If 10% of a poor persons income has to go to a fine why shouldn't 10% of a wealthy persons income go to a fine?

How about taxing the poor the same percentage as the rich on their incomes? The rich would still pay more but it would seem more fair wouldn't it? I mean, you seem concerned about the percentage of someone's income, and being fair to all. Seems like the rich are being treated unfairly if that is the thinking on this board.
 
How about taxing the poor the same percentage as the rich on their incomes? The rich would still pay more but it would seem more fair wouldn't it? I mean, you seem concerned about the percentage of someone's income, and being fair to all. Seems like the rich are being treated unfairly if that is the thinking on this board.

Nice sentiment, but a progressive tax system makes sense because your first dollar is worth more to you than the ones that come after it.

We could have a progressive traffic fine system though.
 
I vote no. It's ridiculous to think someone like a doctor should get charged more for speeding then a trolly-pusher down at wall-mart. Do the crime, equally pay the fine.
 
I vote no. It's ridiculous to think someone like a doctor should get charged more for speeding then a trolly-pusher down at wall-mart. Do the crime, equally pay the fine.

So doctors will just speed all they want because fines are like pocket change to them. Sounds "fair" to you, but doesn't stop speeding.
 
I vote no. It's ridiculous to think someone like a doctor should get charged more for speeding then a trolly-pusher down at wall-mart. Do the crime, equally pay the fine.

But fines are about punishment,just like jail,prison,the death penalty,parole, community service and etc. How is that doctor being punished for the same crime as a trolly-pusher? If both of them got 15 years in prison then both of them are serving the same time, if both of them get the death penalty then both of them will eventally die, if both of them got community service then both of them are doing community service and so on.



BTW do you support a flat tax or a graduated income tax?
 
So doctors will just speed all they want because fines are like pocket change to them. Sounds "fair" to you, but doesn't stop speeding.

Speeding to work might actually be beneficial....
They could squeeze in a few more patients.....:lol:
 
yes it should depend on how much you make, because the fines effect rich people less and the point of a speeding ticket is to stop you from speeding

the system we have now hurts poor people more than rich people, it should be an equal percentage.

Tickets don't stop anyone from speeding. Get too many tickets, lose your license. That should apply to everyone.
 
Should a punishment for murder depend on how much money I make? Should the punishment for theft depend on how much money I make? Why should this be any different?

As the OP is talking about fines, not prison sentences, this is not a good example.

This is something I agree with.

Here in California a carpool or trafic light camera fine comes out to about a weeks pay for a minimum wage person. If a weeks pay is the standard of punishment for some, it should be about a weeks pay for all.
 
Back
Top Bottom