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French law could see fines for burqas

Burqa ban+fine, example to follow or shy

  • This law should be completely implemented in the West

    Votes: 6 15.4%

  • This law is a must in general

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • This law is good

    Votes: 3 7.7%

  • The law is not good

    Votes: 24 61.5%

  • Other opinion(explain).

    Votes: 6 15.4%
  • Total voters
    39
misterman said:
Bull****.

I support the right of women to dress how they want - in a burqa, or not.
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What you are supporting is the continuation of an anarchistic system where women are considered chattel. This is an anti liberal position you have staked out, especially because the women who have been so systematically terrorized into wearing these signs that they are property will say it is actually their choice because the consequences for them saying otherwise are too terrible.

It isn't their choice at all, but that of their owners.
 
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I don't doubt that the French government or the people who support this law mean well. I know they think that this is the best way to help those few French Muslim women who are actually oppressed and forced daily into wearing religious attire they don't want to wear.

Fining these women for the clothes they wear will not change their fate or their oppression in the slightest. I actually believe it will make their situation infinitely worse. Also, knowing the French Muslim population as I do, I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if more and more women start wearing these clothes as a political statement, just like they did after the ban on veils in government buildings.

I believe that fines and bans are the worst way to tackle the very real problem of Muslim oppression of women. From a freedom loving point of view as well as from a woman's perspective, I find the idea of a government punishing those who freely chose to wear these garments even more abhorrent than the idea of religious oppression.

Banning the symbol will not make the problem go away. It's just a lazy way to pretend that something is being done
 
Gardener said:
You mean wear what her owner wishes.

Given the specific culture, the chattel involved face the probably of being beaten or cut up for even saying it ISN'T her choice.
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If this were Saudi Arabia I'd be right there with you. This is France. What a woman wears is of no consequence as the laws of the land already state that she is her husband's equal. The problem is not the attire and banning her clothes will not change her or her husband's cultural indoctrination. Studies have shown that French Muslims are the most secular in the whole of Europe. Those few who do wear these clothes (and they are such an insignificant number, it's almost laughable) are newly arrived immigrants who are still immersed in their cultural traditions. Those traditions fade dramatically with every generation.

Interestingly enough, however, other than newly arrived immigrants, there is a small number of newly converted French women who chose to wear these clothes. Their choice has nothing to do with either cultural tradition nor fear or ignorance. It's a religious choice that harms no one and the government should butt out.
 
Arcana XV said:
I don't doubt that the French government or the people who support this law mean well. I know they think that this is the best way to help those few French Muslim women who are actually oppressed and forced daily into wearing religious attire they don't want to wear.

Fining these women for the clothes they wear will not change their fate or their oppression in the slightest. I actually believe it will make their situation infinitely worse. Also, knowing the French Muslim population as I do, I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if more and more women start wearing these clothes as a political statement, just like they did after the ban on veils in government buildings.

I believe that fines and bans are the worst way to tackle the very real problem of Muslim oppression of women. From a freedom loving point of view as well as from a woman's perspective, I find the idea of a government punishing those who freely chose to wear these garments even more abhorrent than the idea of religious oppression.

Banning the symbol will not make the problem go away. It's just a lazy way to pretend that something is being done
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I couldn't possibly agree more.

I guess this means that nuns will no longer be permitted to wear their full habit, either.

Genius. :roll:
 
Banning Burqas and Burqas alone would be idiotic here in America and frankly a violation of civil rights and specifically targetting a specific ethnicity and/or religion in an attempt to use the law to single them out. That's reprehensible.

The law as its seem to be written in france is asinine and nothing but a sign of "nanny state", "Big government" type of ideology. So if that passed in the U.S....what? People in Michigan who wear ski masks when its 0 with a windchill of -10 need to be fined? Ladies wrapping a scarf around their face because its windy would need to get questioned by the police. Men with peacoats that whose collars can flip up for when a night gets kind of brisk need to be checked to see if they're hiding a bomb.

What a ridiculous piece of nanny state legislation based off nothing but illogical fear, for when it comes down to it a big winter coat or a trench coat is going to be much more useful for concealing some kind of dangerous item....but that's not attached to muslims so of course we wouldn't want to target that, we couldn't put forward our bigoted views under the guise of "caring" or "protection" if we did that.

:roll:

Thank god I still live in America and at least for the MOST part the Land of the Free remains the Land of the Free contrary to what those in the Big Government ideology wing wish.
 
oh no, women could hide bombs under burqas, but wait, bombs could also be hidden in back packs, lets ban them too, and turbans, you could hide a bomb in a turban, and long coats, you can easily hide a sawn off shot gun in a coat, and the cat in the hat, god know what he has under that hat, and pants with deep pockets, someone could hide a small pistol in large pockets, and DVD's, some couls sharpen the edges and go xena frisbee thing on someone, and dreadlocks, coz they might start tentacle raping young japanese women, and, wait, lets just make everyone walk round naked with all body hair shaved off, but then they couls hide weapons in body cavities, lets make everyones skin transparent, that'll teach them women oppressers that force them to wear burqas
 
Just ban clothes. It's too eay to hide something there.:2razz:
 
bicycleman said:
Just ban clothes. It's too eay to hide something there.:2razz:
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Plus they are oppressive. For instance, women are required by law to cover their breasts due to religious fanatics. Let's liberate them.
 
misterman said:
Plus they are oppressive. For instance, women are required by law to cover their breasts due to religious fanatics. Let's liberate them.
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If that were to occur, we'd have a whole lot more fit people, just to be able to look good.
 
No hiding bombs under dangling obesity. People might rediscover parts they hadn't seen since childhood.
 
jamesrage said:
I voted other. Only in court rooms when giving testimony and getting a picture ID/license/passport photo and etc should burqas,hats and anything else that obscures the face.
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How about trainstations or airports?
 
Maximus Zeebra said:
How about trainstations or airports?
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Why? Aren't we moving to strip search everyone anyway, so it doesn't matter. Let them wear that **** if they want.
 
Maximus Zeebra said:
You do that in trainstations, buses, cafes and other public places as well? :confused:
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Why does any of that matter? What do I care if someone walks down the street in a burqa? It's not my business what they wear, they're free to do as they like. Is that a tough concept? It's not government's place to dictate fashion or dress policy above indecent exposure.
 
Ikari said:
Why does any of that matter? What do I care if someone walks down the street in a burqa? It's not my business what they wear, they're free to do as they like. Is that a tough concept? It's not government's place to dictate fashion or dress policy above indecent exposure.
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Do you mind if a person wears a ski mask/balaclava in the summer, outside a bank?
 
Maximus Zeebra said:
Do you mind if a person wears a ski mask/balaclava in the summer, outside a bank?
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While I may be suspicious of the behavior, it's not outright illegal. I wouldn't make a law preventing people from wearing ski masks. How does someone wearing a burqa on the street have anything to do with people wearing ski masks standing outside a bank? They have nothing to do with each other. You seem to want to justify a bad law through absurd and extreme examples. That does not make for a good basis of law.
 
Kandahar said:
Why? Who cares? Their dress choice doesn't hurt you or anyone else, so who are you to say what their culture "should" be?
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Culture is what makes a country a real country, and unites that country. Multiculturalism, taken to an extreme, is what allows British and other European Muslims who were born and raised in Europe to become radical and commit acts of terror against their own country.

My culture requires that I wear a suit to work. That's quite uncomfortable, especially in the heat. Am I being oppressed?
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Does your suit require that you cover your face? Is it used for only one sex, and serve as a tool of oppression for that sex?

And my family might disown me (not really, but you get the point) if I frequently walked around nude in public. Is that different somehow? As for hurting/killing a woman who doesn't wear a burqa...hurting/killing are already illegal.
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You really think that not wearing a tent at all times can even relate to not being naked in public? And it doesn't matter that hurting/killing is illegal, it still happens. Ever heard of "honor killings"?

Keep in mind that I am still completely against banning or fining burqas.
 
Dav said:
Culture is what makes a country a real country, and unites that country. Multiculturalism, taken to an extreme, is what allows British and other European Muslims who were born and raised in Europe to become radical and commit acts of terror against their own country.
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There's a big difference between adhering to a strict dress code and trying to blow yourself up.

Dav said:
Does your suit require that you cover your face?
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No. Is that the standard of what clothes are oppressive and what clothes aren't? Are football helmets oppressive?

Dav said:
Is it used for only one sex, and serve as a tool of oppression for that sex?
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Yes, and yes. Only men wear the kind of suits I wear, and I'd rather not wear it if my society gave me the choice.

Dav said:
You really think that not wearing a tent at all times can even relate to not being naked in public?
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Absolutely. Many Westerners consider nudity to be indecent. Many Muslims consider women exposing their face to be indecent. What's the difference, other than your society has indoctrinated you to accept one standard and not the other?

Dav said:
And it doesn't matter that hurting/killing is illegal, it still happens. Ever heard of "honor killings"?
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Sure...but what do they have to do with the burqa? Most honor killings take place in countries where no one wears the burqa. :confused:
 
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Maximus Zeebra said:
Do you mind if a person wears a ski mask/balaclava in the summer, outside a bank?
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Are there people walking around in burqas outside banks in France alot?

How many crimes in France have been committed by people wearing burqas?
 
Kandahar said:
There's a big difference between adhering to a strict dress code and trying to blow yourself up.
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That doesn't really change my point.

No. Is that the standard of what clothes are oppressive and what clothes aren't? Are football helmets oppressive?
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Football helmets are worn during football games, not at all times in public.

Yes, and yes. Only men wear the kind of suits I wear, and I'd rather not wear it if my society gave me the choice.
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How is it "yes" for the second one?

Absolutely. Many Westerners consider nudity to be indecent. Many Muslims consider women exposing their face to be indecent. What's the difference, other than your society has indoctrinated you to accept one standard and not the other?
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There's a big difference. Your face is what sets you apart from the crowd. It's a vital tool for communication as well. To make a woman cover her face is to dehumanize her, and make her one cold, expressionless tent of a million.

Sure...but what do they have to do with the burqa? Most honor killings take place in countries where no one wears the burqa. :confused:
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Honor killings can happen in pretty much any Muslim or European country. Anyways, it's just an example of how claiming that actions taken by a Muslim woman is "her choice" or "what she wants" is not always accurate.
 
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misterman said:
Are there people walking around in burqas outside banks in France alot?

How many crimes in France have been committed by people wearing burqas?
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Hey! People can hide guns and drugs and illegal immigrants in a burqa! Think of the public safety! The CCTV cameras are rendered useless! Useless I say! What are we going to do if government can't catalog our movements and present location! Anarchy...that's what! By banning the burqa you're upholding the stability of society and protecting the rights of women who are unfairly oppressed by their freedom of choice as to wearing or not wearing a burqa. Freedom is slavery!
 
Ikari said:
Hey! People can hide guns and drugs and illegal immigrants in a burqa! Think of the public safety! The CCTV cameras are rendered useless! Useless I say! What are we going to do if government can't catalog our movements and present location! Anarchy...that's what! By banning the burqa you're upholding the stability of society and protecting the rights of women who are unfairly oppressed by their freedom of choice as to wearing or not wearing a burqa. Freedom is slavery!
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You're right - I'll be sure to feel guilty next time I put on my bathrobe.
 
misterman said:
You're right - I'll be sure to feel guilty next time I put on my bathrobe.
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As well you should! How do the rest of us know you don't have a bomb under there!
 
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