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Are Americans Brainwashed?

Are Americans Brainwashed?

  • Yes

    Votes: 27 43.5%

  • No

    Votes: 23 37.1%

  • Other

    Votes: 12 19.4%
  • Total voters
    62
AlbqOwl said:
I am just finishing up our 2009 taxes. We are by no means wealthy or even really 'well off' people, but the combined taxes paid to Federal, State, County, and local governments in 2009 totaled just under 50% of our gross income before ANY deductions or expenses. And that doesn't even count the taxes built into the costs to us for products and services that we paid for during the year.
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Ok, and? Do you feel you get what you pay for?

But if you agree with them, then they must not be all that radical or out of the mainstream, yes?
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That's the whole point. They AREN'T radical and AREN'T out of the mainstream. You dont get bonus points for showing up at a protest with a "WE AGREE WITH EVERYBODY ELSE" sign.

I have no clue what you meant by this. I responded to your criticism of them calling themselves a Tea Party along with your rather snooty evaluation that they must not be much if they don't have identifiable leaders or a printed platform or something to that effect.
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You said the original tea party had no real leaders but somehow did something meaningful (even though it really didnt) and my point is that the teabaggers are not a movement I take seriously in part because they have no leadership and very rarely is a mob ever the best means for effecting any real change.

Yep. Because I have been heavily involved with the Tea Party movement
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I'm sorry

and have listened to what the people are saying which you apparently have not.
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Which version am I supposed to listen to? We had some of these teabagger idiots in my hometown and I **** you not, walking past them, this was a selection of what I heard.

"NO MORE TAXES"
"OBAMA IS A MUSLIM"
"NO SOCIALISM"
"NO GOVERNMENT BUT OUR OWN"
"NO CHINA" (I REALLY didnt get that one)
"STOP SPENDING OUR CHILDREN'S FUTURE"

And various permutations thereof. That says this is a movement of people who are pissed about losing an election and now they're throwing any temper tantrum they can to get TV time. Half the time the teabaggers dont make any sense at all "No government but our own" what the hell does that even mean?

And there is this which I think should be required reading in every highschool and university in America: In Search of Self-Governance - Rasmussen Reports
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Why?

If you are a Socialist you by definition believe in big government and consent to intrusiveness that anti-Socialists would not consent.
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No, no I really dont. I realize this is part of the Conservative mindset is to want to pigeon-hole everyone but I assure you being a Socialist in no way necessitates a support of big government. I'd encourage you to read some Socialist literature so you'd get a chance to see what we actually believe but I somehow doubt you'd take me up on that.

In my opinion, you criticize the Tea Partiers and use perjorative terms to describe them
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I use the terms that they used on themselves. Just because NOW they figure out their name had another meaning BEFORE they got to it is not my problem.

because you are a) ignorant about what they are all about
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How the hell can I know what they're all about when they have no consistent or coherent message other than "ANGRY MOB IS ANGRY!"

b) you are opposed to everything they stand for.
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Again, how can I know what they stand for when part of them are ranting about Muslims, part of them want no taxes at all, and the rest I cant figure out what they're there for because they dont make any sense.

If you had a clue about the people involved in those gatherings, you would not be describing them as childish.
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No I suspect "pedantic" and "clueless" would come in somewhere.
 
Glinda said:
Heh. He sent me a lovely PM overflowing with spittle-flecked invective. :lamo

I'm pretty sure the guy's crushing on me. ;)
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What did it say?
 
Simple, if one political ideology is brainwashed the the other must be as well to counter it. The rest of us are in the middle and slightly more cynical and slightly less manipulated or on the edges creating the kool-aid and selling the **** door to door.

The only way to counteract this is to blow the whole ****ing thing up and go back to "every man for himself" anarchy where we're beating the hell out of each other with clubs OR, become a hermit and live a solitary life with Wilson.

wilson1.jpg
 
Cilogy said:
What did it say?
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I'm pretty sure it's not kosher to post PMs.

Suffice it to say that it was quite similar to this post. In fact, it appears that K-1 thinks I'm a mod, as pretty much the whole thing (the part that wasn't outraged attacks/insults, that is) was about me being a big bully because I have my finger on the ban button.

Or maybe he meant to send it to Captain Courtesy and mixed the two of us up.

Either way, the guy's waaay out there where the buses don't run. :screwy
 
Hoplite said:
Ok, and? Do you feel you get what you pay for?

That's the whole point. They AREN'T radical and AREN'T out of the mainstream. You dont get bonus points for showing up at a protest with a "WE AGREE WITH EVERYBODY ELSE" sign.

You said the original tea party had no real leaders but somehow did something meaningful (even though it really didnt) and my point is that the teabaggers are not a movement I take seriously in part because they have no leadership and very rarely is a mob ever the best means for effecting any real change.

I'm sorry

Which version am I supposed to listen to? We had some of these teabagger idiots in my hometown and I **** you not, walking past them, this was a selection of what I heard.

"NO MORE TAXES"
"OBAMA IS A MUSLIM"
"NO SOCIALISM"
"NO GOVERNMENT BUT OUR OWN"
"NO CHINA" (I REALLY didnt get that one)
"STOP SPENDING OUR CHILDREN'S FUTURE"

And various permutations thereof. That says this is a movement of people who are pissed about losing an election and now they're throwing any temper tantrum they can to get TV time. Half the time the teabaggers dont make any sense at all "No government but our own" what the hell does that even mean?

Why?

No, no I really dont. I realize this is part of the Conservative mindset is to want to pigeon-hole everyone but I assure you being a Socialist in no way necessitates a support of big government. I'd encourage you to read some Socialist literature so you'd get a chance to see what we actually believe but I somehow doubt you'd take me up on that.

I use the terms that they used on themselves. Just because NOW they figure out their name had another meaning BEFORE they got to it is not my problem.


How the hell can I know what they're all about when they have no consistent or coherent message other than "ANGRY MOB IS ANGRY!"

Again, how can I know what they stand for when part of them are ranting about Muslims, part of them want no taxes at all, and the rest I cant figure out what they're there for because they dont make any sense.

No I suspect "pedantic" and "clueless" would come in somewhere.
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Well, 'pedantic' and 'clueless' certainly describes those who have no idea what the Tea Partiers stand for or why they do what they do, but uses perjorative terms to define them and utterly ignorant characterizations to define them even as he misquotes their message while denying they have one.

Every movement, including those that I'm sure you think are hunky dory, will have a nut or two mixed in with the mainstream stuff. Honest people acknowledge that whether or not they agree with the message of the group. Dishonest people look for the nuts and hold them up as examples of the whole. Possibly very misinformed people who have no interest in any other point of view fall into that category too. They aren't dishonest. Just brainwashed and like staying that way.

I'll leave it to you to decide if you fit in there somewhere.
 
Glinda said:
In fact, it appears that K-1 thinks I'm a mod, as pretty much the whole thing (the part that wasn't outraged attacks/insults, that is) was about me being a big bully because I have my finger on the ban button.

Or maybe he meant to send it to Captain Courtesy and mixed the two of us up.

Either way, the guy's waaay out there where the buses don't run. :screwy
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Exactly, he was probably way to focused on calling someone out that he didn't think straight.


Ockham said:
The only way to counteract this is to blow the whole ****ing thing up and go back to "every man for himself" anarchy where we're beating the hell out of each other with clubs OR, become a hermit and live a solitary life with Wilson.
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Seems like where we are headed if the teabaggers get their way.
 
Brainwashed is the PC take, but I see it more as conditioned belief learned from our parents, sibs, teachers, roll models, and peers, especially peers and roll models because peer pressure is still with us every day, and most still believe the words of their roll models no matter how far out.

True brainwashing was what happened to the soldiers in the movie The Manchurian Candidate, most certainly the Jim Jones group, Heaven's gate, and possibly the two kids at Columbine.

ricksfolly
 
AlbqOwl said:
Well, 'pedantic' and 'clueless' certainly describes those who have no idea what the Tea Partiers stand for or why they do what they do, but uses perjorative terms to define them and utterly ignorant characterizations to define them even as he misquotes their message while denying they have one.
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My whole point is that it's virtually impossible to discern a real message and that that's a problem. All I can really do is guess at what their message is based on what I see.

Every movement, including those that I'm sure you think are hunky dory, will have a nut or two mixed in with the mainstream stuff.
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"Or two"? The entire movement seems like a bowl of mixed nuts.

Honest people acknowledge that whether or not they agree with the message of the group. Dishonest people look for the nuts and hold them up as examples of the whole. Possibly very misinformed people who have no interest in any other point of view fall into that category too. They aren't dishonest. Just brainwashed and like staying that way.
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I DO acknowledge that in any group there are idiots. My problem is I cant see any clear-cut examples of the rational people and the one's that are rational often have no idea what they're talking about.
 
Hoplite said:
My whole point is that it's virtually impossible to discern a real message and that that's a problem. All I can really do is guess at what their message is based on what I see.

"Or two"? The entire movement seems like a bowl of mixed nuts.

I DO acknowledge that in any group there are idiots. My problem is I cant see any clear-cut examples of the rational people and the one's that are rational often have no idea what they're talking about.
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As I said, those who are clueless about what a group or movement is all about are subject to serious misconceptions when they are spoon fed or indoctrinated into what to think about them.

If you had spent any time at one of these gatherings or talked with a number of the people represented there, I think you would have a much different image.

Or if you are one of the brainwashed socialism-friendly big government types who opposes most real liberty, accountability, responsibility, and self-determination, it is possible you wouldn't get it even then.

I don't know you, so I don't know whether your misconceptions about the Tea Parties come from really bad information or come from brainwashing or ideological tunnel vision. Maybe those last two things are one and the same. I don't know.
 
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AlbqOwl said:
As I said, those who are clueless about what a group or movement is all about are subject to serious misconceptions when they are spoon fed or indoctrinated into what to think about them.
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What more do you want? I've been to their rallies, watched them on YouTube, talked to them on the internet, read their articles, and seen what their groups do to each other.

If you had spent any time at one of these gatherings or talked with a number of the people represented there, I think you would have a much different image.
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I HAVE and I came away with what I have now. I'm all for citizens being proactive but just because you got your ass off the couch and are waving a sign around doesn't earn you any respect from me, that's a basic duty of a citizen to protest if something is wrong.

Or if you are one of the brainwashed socialism-friendly big government types who opposes most real liberty, accountability, responsibility, and self-determination, it is possible you wouldn't get it even then.
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And see this is EXACTLY what I'm talking about; all rhetoric all the time with no real substance.

I don't know you, so I don't know whether your misconceptions about the Tea Parties come from really bad information or come from brainwashing or ideological tunnel vision. Maybe those last two things are one and the same. I don't know.
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I find that about 95% of the time, if someone is accusing someone else of being "brainwashed" that they tend to be arguing from an intellectually weak position.

Y'know all you've done is attacked me and said "no, you're wrong". You haven't actually demonstrated WHY I'm wrong. You regurgitate the boilerplate slogans but dont actually engage on any real intellectual level; a problem I find in most teabaggers.
 
he use of the term Brainwashed is misused and I guess clearly misinterpreted by a very many of those who responded to the vague open ended question.

Some one early on said Liberals are and I would say that is a mistaken interpretation of the facts.

Currently there are millions of people who were looking for answers to questions they were not getting when a charismatic speaker to some comes along and begins to say what they want to hear and they believe the endless supply of lies they hear.

They become invested in the belief that something special has taken place and even when evidence begins to emerge that have make a terrible mistake they are reluctant face the truth for the fear looking stupid for falling for the con man in the first place.

On the whole people of most every Nation are raised to believe theirs is the best place on earth to live even in countries run by a despot there will be some who think they have it better than they do.

Some of this can be chalked up to pride of ownership it shows up in school spirit, and and in more dangerous forms like my God's better than your God.

It's not Brainwashing it's mostly human nature, errors in judgment, wishful thinking and gullibility, among other things.
 
The APA says brainwashing is bull****.
 
Councilman said:
he use of the term Brainwashed is misused and I guess clearly misinterpreted by a very many of those who responded to the vague open ended question.

Some one early on said Liberals are and I would say that is a mistaken interpretation of the facts.

Currently there are millions of people who were looking for answers to questions they were not getting when a charismatic speaker to some comes along and begins to say what they want to hear and they believe the endless supply of lies they hear.

They become invested in the belief that something special has taken place and even when evidence begins to emerge that have make a terrible mistake they are reluctant face the truth for the fear looking stupid for falling for the con man in the first place.

It is perhaps the only explanation for how some hold on to certain beliefs despite an overwhelming body of evidence that disputes them.

On the whole people of most every Nation are raised to believe theirs is the best place on earth to live even in countries run by a despot there will be some who think they have it better than they do.

Some of this can be chalked up to pride of ownership it shows up in school spirit, and and in more dangerous forms like my God's better than your God.

It's not Brainwashing it's mostly human nature, errors in judgment, wishful thinking and gullibility, among other things.
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Well you're right if you're using the medical term for brainwashing. That is a specific term for a process by which a person is put under such stress that a mental breakdown results. Then the person can be infused with beliefs based on whatever information the 'brainwasher' intends to instill in the person.

What we are defining as 'brain washing' here, I think, is less violent but perhaps even more insidious. Until somebody or something convinces a child that there is no Santa Claus, the child believes. When the young are fully indoctrinated with concepts and principles and read them in their history books and are lectured on them in the classroom, it instills and trust and belief in those concepts and principles, however erroneous they may be.

Then perhaps, among the most weak, gullible, or pliable among us, human nature takes over and such individuals fight to preserve concepts and principles that they have come accept as comforting to them. I think that is true in religion, politics, social dynamics, and perspectives on culture and history.
 
HEY liberals! I am back! :lol:

I love sending liberals into fits of rage. I haven't posted in two days and one simple PM has me being talked about up till now. Poor liberals. :rofl

In any event, since people want to make a debate out of the axiomatic fact that most (street) liberals are brainwashed, I found some lovely videos of Obama zombies for you to feast on.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mm1KOBMg1Y8"]YouTube- How Obama Got Elected... Interviews With Obama Voters[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bg98BvqUvCc&feature=related"]YouTube- OBAMA'S GONNA PAY FOR MY GAS...[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ovcdb6csHBE&feature=fvw"]YouTube- Barack Obama, Change We Can Believe In?[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCXot2HQT00&feature=related"]YouTube- Obama Voters - Brainwashed With Change[/ame]

And here is a video of the next generation of brainwashed liberals:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lS4j8IhWLiM"]YouTube- Cult of Obama indoctrination in PRESCHOOL![/ame]

You would be hard pressed to find examples of these on the right-wing. While conservatives love people like Palin and other charismatic right-wing politicians, we aren't completely clueless like the average street liberal is.

What I love in this thread is the propensity for liberals to call people hacks when their arguments are debunked, or when they haven't get anything of worth to say.

First we had a genius who pathetically faked a college experience to somehow "trap me" into being a real conservative. :rofl

Then we have another genius who genuinely cites MSNBC as a counterargument to a point I made, and when I crush the point they say: "SEE, YOU'RE A HACK!!!" to cover up their own left-wing hackery, idiocy and inability to make a coherent argument.

Since people on both sides are supposedly brainwashed, I would love to see somebody post me examples of brainwashed people on the right as egregious as what I have posted.

Prediction:
I get people screaming "HACK!" without refuting any of my points, and I get banned again for making this point.
 
K-1 said:
HEY liberals! I am back! :lol:

I love sending liberals into fits of rage. I haven't posted in two days and one simple PM has me being talked about up till now. Poor liberals. :rofl

In any event, since people want to make a debate out of the axiomatic fact that most (street) liberals are brainwashed, I found some lovely videos of Obama zombies for you to feast on.
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People are idiots regardless of political ideology.


You would be hard pressed to find examples of these on the right-wing. While conservatives love people like Palin and other charismatic right-wing politicians, we aren't completely clueless like the average street liberal is.
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Ya know, I've never actually aspirated food before, but I now know that, yes, Oat Loops DO fit out the nose.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjxzmaXAg9E"]YouTube- The McCain-Palin Mob[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YIq5Q15L1o"]YouTube- McCain Supporter: "Obama is an Arab"[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fieGfc6DL7k"]YouTube- Racist McCain Supporters in Pottsville, Pennsylvania[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvPJOQhXrak&feature=related"]YouTube- Racist McCain Supporter On The News Obama in Noose[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9KJ288MEVk"]YouTube- Stupid McCain supporters.[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivYzpYL9xMw"]YouTube- Crazy McCain Supporter Lied On Non-Existent Black Man Who Mugged, Beat Her[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtZWwgw__WY&feature=related"]YouTube- Hatred at a Palin Rally in Johnstown, PA[/ame]

Since people on both sides are supposedly brainwashed, I would love to see somebody post me examples of brainwashed people on the right as egregious as what I have posted.
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**Points up**
 
EgoffTib said:
I'll be genuinely surprised if he actually concedes your point.
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I'm expecting something about how I "took those out of context" or I'm "taking the example of a few nuts for the whole".
 
:lol:

Posting videos of a few old racist nuts on the Right is not the same as what I posted.

There are racist nuts on the Left who refused to vote for Obama too:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KACQuZVAE3s"]YouTube- Clinton Supporter Thrown Out of Rules Committee Meeting[/ame]

I posted videos of people being asked policy questions and not being able to answer with any degree of literacy or knowledge. Overwhelmingly, conservatives are much more conversant with the issues than liberals, who are usually brainwashed by slogans.

Yes, there are racist idiots out there...that doesn't disprove my argument. :roll:
 
K-1 said:
:lol:

Posting videos of a few old racist nuts on the Right is not the same as what I posted.

There are racist nuts on the Left who refused to vote for Obama too:


I posted videos of people being asked policy questions and not being able to answer with any degree of literacy or knowledge. Overwhelmingly, conservatives are much more conversant with the issues than liberals, who are usually brainwashed by slogans.

Yes, there are racist idiots out there...that doesn't disprove my argument. :roll:
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I see you opted for the ladder of my theories.
 
K-1 said:
As brainwashed as I believe most liberals are, one has to certainly respect any person who has the balls to ardently stand for a political philosophy, whether they were indoctrinated into it or not. The people who I think are pathetic are those who claim to be "centrists" and "independents." Generally speaking, not only are these people not very bright, but they, rather stupidly, feel as though their political indifference confers magnanimity.

If you have an IQ higher than that of a garden gnome, you're either a left-winger or a right-winger. All this I'm-in-the-middle nonsense is, generally, for educable retards.
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The independent label is simply a way for someone to denote the absence of a political allegiance. It doesn't mean they don't have a well-defined political philosophy.

I'm an independent libertarian, for instance...
 
Ethereal said:
The independent label is simply a way for someone to denote the absence of a political allegiance. It doesn't mean they don't have a well-defined political philosophy.

I'm an independent libertarian, for instance...
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By "independent," I am referring to those who use the label in the same way people use "centrist."
 
jr602az said:
:)Please watch this amazing video about Americans being brainwashed.
YouTube- Zombies are real
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Looked at about 30 seconds of this thing and I must say you would have to brainwash me to get me to watch anymore of it. Christ that is 30 seconds of my life I'll never get back.:boohoo:
 
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