Are Americans Brainwashed?

K-1 · Feb 27, 2010

Evidently, Glinda has no counterargument after I crushed her very silly and tendentious video from BS-NBC, so all she can do is thank a nonsensical and irrelevant post from a pseudo-intellectual hack. :lol:

Liberals are so funny. :lol:

Cilogy · Feb 27, 2010

K-1 said:
Evidently, Glinda has no counterargument after I crushed her very silly and tendentious video from BS-NBC, so all she can do is thank a nonsensical and irrelevant post from a pseudo-intellectual hack. :lol:

Liberals are so funny. :lol:

Yeah I agree with you there, a video from NBC doesn't necessarily prove anything.

Hoplite · Feb 27, 2010

This is not a question that can be answered in such a binary fashion.

I feel that Americans are far too inclined in following the societal lead without asking any questions. Americans are very disinclined towards asking serious questions about the world around them and dont show much drive to be serious when it comes to a lot of things that we like to pretend we're serious about.

In fairness, that's a feature of humanity in general but I feel that it's more pronounced in Americans.

CaptainCourtesy · Feb 27, 2010

K-1 said:
And you post like the kind of pseudo-intellectual bully and hack, who cannot formulate a coherent point on topic that is worth reading, but thinks he has infinite power to insult people and engage in psychological analyses of people because his screen name is bolded. And that, my friend, is laughable. :lol:

More proof that you have no clue and that I am correct. Keep going. It is amusing watching you try to work.

Again, it is hilarious to see the cavalier attitude and outright condescension coming from someone who thinks that being in the middle makes them an intellectual and mentally superior to people on the left or right. :lol: It just proves my point.

Firstly, you continue to demonstrate your hackery. Please post where I said any of the above. Secondly, I am always condescending to partisan hacks. They give the impression that they have no ability to think in any kind of original way. Sometimes it forces them to do so. More often it just pushes them to demonstrate what I accuse them of.

Thank you, Dr. Phil. Do you have anything of substance to offer? Oh, sorry, I forgot you're an independent who can't formulate any original or insightful political thought, but can spew pathetic and sophomoric psycho-analyses. :roll:

Each and every one of you posts proves what I say. Please offer us anything that isn't SOP for an anti-liberal. I doubt you can.

AlbqOwl · Feb 27, 2010

Hoplite said:
This is not a question that can be answered in such a binary fashion.

I feel that Americans are far too inclined in following the societal lead without asking any questions. Americans are very disinclined towards asking serious questions about the world around them and dont show much drive to be serious when it comes to a lot of things that we like to pretend we're serious about.

In fairness, that's a feature of humanity in general but I feel that it's more pronounced in Americans.

That has been true for a long time. It isn't so much being brainwashed, but being brain dead.

When things are good, people tend to become apathetic or disinterested in much beyond their own happy little worlds. But when things go bad, and people do start paying attention, there is much scurrying to protect turf and defend sacred cows. Just look how the Tea Partiers and Tax Protest groups have been demonized, misrepresented, downplayed, or just plain insulted by the leftwing media, Democrats, the Obama administration, and left wingers on the blogs. The hope seems to be that the non-apathetic will become apathetic again or just go away.

The American people had it very good for most of the Clinton administration and most of the Bush administration. They did become quite complacent. Then when the bubble burst and the economy crashed, that prompted everybody to start paying more attention.

If this recession results in booting most of the self-serving, egotistical, self-perpetuating deadwood in Congress and replacing them with patriots who honestly do have the best interest of the country at heart, it will have been worth it.

And maybe we will even decide to pay attention for awhile. That would be the best thing that ever happened to any generation.

Cilogy · Feb 27, 2010

AlbqOwl said:
If this recession results in booting most of the self-serving, egotistical, self-perpetuating deadwood in Congress and replacing them with patriots who honestly do have the best interest of the country at heart, it will have been worth it.

You've solved the mystery! :happy:

No seriously, I agree with you. If there's one thing that the recession has brought in good fortune, it is more awareness of our nation/governance/etc. Granted, there is a lot of craziness resulting from it, but its here nonetheless.

Hoplite · Feb 27, 2010

AlbqOwl said:
That has been true for a long time. It isn't so much being brainwashed, but being brain dead.

Im not sure I completely agree with that, I would more classify it as brain drain (Yes I'm aware that already has a meaning). Our attention and focus is being sapped by things that are meaningless.

Where I differ from many others is I feel that that sapping is not intentional, but accidental. I dont think people like TMZ or American Idol or other cultural fixations actively want to keep us distracted from the important things. They want to keep us watching them or using their products or listening to their music or whatever because it makes them money and when you've got a thousand different private institutions trying to do this all at once, you get brain drain.

When things are good, people tend to become apathetic or disinterested in much beyond their own happy little worlds. But when things go bad, and people do start paying attention, there is much scurrying to protect turf and defend sacred cows. Just look how the Tea Partiers and Tax Protest groups have been demonized, misrepresented, downplayed, or just plain insulted by the leftwing media, Democrats, the Obama administration, and left wingers on the blogs. The hope seems to be that the non-apathetic will become apathetic again or just go away.

The teabaggers have been insulted because it's a joke of a movement. There's no clear leaders, no clear message, no clear demographic, no clear goals, and no real organization. It's basically a mass of angry middle class people hooting like chimps because they didnt get what they wanted.

Cilogy said:
No seriously, I agree with you. If there's one thing that the recession has brought in good fortune, it is more awareness of our nation/governance/etc. Granted, there is a lot of craziness resulting from it, but its here nonetheless.

And see I dont think it really has. I think it's brought down a lot of anger and paranoia but I dont really see any positives stemming from it. I dont see people being more aware or politically conscious, I dont see people taking a proactive role in politics, and I dont see any indication we've gotten past the same bad habits we always indulge in when it comes to politics.

Cilogy · Feb 27, 2010

AlbqOwl said:
Just look how the Tea Partiers and Tax Protest groups have been demonized, misrepresented, downplayed, or just plain insulted by the leftwing media, Democrats, the Obama administration, and left wingers on the blogs. The hope seems to be that the non-apathetic will become apathetic again or just go away.

I think it has more to do with media hype, and figures in "news media" fanning the flames for their own enjoyment.

The Boston Tea Party occured because of taxation without representation. We have representation now, and people still twist and shot.

AlbqOwl · Feb 27, 2010

Hoplite said:
Im not sure I completely agree with that, I would more classify it as brain drain (Yes I'm aware that already has a meaning). Our attention and focus is being sapped by things that are meaningless.

Where I differ from many others is I feel that that sapping is not intentional, but accidental. I dont think people like TMZ or American Idol or other cultural fixations actively want to keep us distracted from the important things. They want to keep us watching them or using their products or listening to their music or whatever because it makes them money and when you've got a thousand different private institutions trying to do this all at once, you get brain drain.

I see what you're saying but I'm not buying into it. I think anybody who spends all his/her time in front the TV or on the internet or whatever recreational diversion is going to have a skewed view of the world no matter what they're watching or doing. There have always been distractions from the 'more important things'. We sometimes neglect to check the air in our tires until we see one that looks low. And few of us worry about our brakes much until they start grinding or squealing. I think it is the same re our socioeconomic and political health too. As long as everything seems okay we don't worry about it a lot.

The teabaggers have been insulted because it's a joke of a movement. There's no clear leaders, no clear message, no clear demographic, no clear goals, and no real organization. It's basically a mass of angry middle class people hooting like chimps because they didnt get what they wanted.

See? You insult, marginalize, dismiss, or demonize ordinary Americans--people earning their own keep and running businesses and raising families--instead of recognizing them as people who are no longer apathetic and who feel justified in being mad as hell. They don't see that they need leaders or organization and they don't give a tinkers' dam about demographics. They want honesty, integrity, fiscal accountability, and responsibility in their government. They are making it known that is what they expect of their leaders and they will be taking that into account at the ballot box.

I'm hoping they can sustain their passion all the way through the next elections rather than be diverted from such mundane things as mowing their lawns, feeding their kids, earning a living, paying their bills, and such as that.

And see I dont think it really has. I think it's brought down a lot of anger and paranoia but I dont really see any positives stemming from it. I dont see people being more aware or politically conscious, I dont see people taking a proactive role in politics, and I dont see any indication we've gotten past the same bad habits we always indulge in when it comes to politics.

So if the Tea Partiers are not taking a proactive role in politics who is? What do you define as proactive?

AlbqOwl · Feb 27, 2010

Cilogy said:
I think it has more to do with media hype, and figures in "news media" fanning the flames for their own enjoyment.

The Boston Tea Party occured because of taxation without representation. We have representation now, and people still twist and shot.

No I think you're wrong. I think the modern day Tea Partiers are absolutely protesting taxation without representation. They are protesting people who are supposed to be in Washington representing the people but who instead are using their high office to increase their own power, prestige, personal wealth, and a gravy train into the future as far as the eye can see and are doing it on the backs of the people they are supposed to be representing.

American · Feb 27, 2010

CaptainCourtesy said:
No, it's the liberals. No, it's the conservatives. I've got a better one: it's anyone who says either "no it's the liberals or no it's the conservatives." Those are the folks that are brainwashed.

You said it.

First Thought · Feb 27, 2010

K-1 said:
Liberal Americans are certainly brainwashed.

So much hatred... Tisk, tisk.

First Thought · Feb 27, 2010

K-1 said:
I am not denying that there are some conservative puppets who know nothing at all, but they are exception to the rule. Liberals being mindless indoctrinated puppets is the rule.

How about you try supporting an argument for once? Is that too much to ask of you? Or maybe you could tone down the partisan hackery. :shrug:

Hoplite · Feb 27, 2010

AlbqOwl said:
I see what you're saying but I'm not buying into it. I think anybody who spends all his/her time in front the TV or on the internet or whatever recreational diversion is going to have a skewed view of the world no matter what they're watching or doing. There have always been distractions from the 'more important things'. We sometimes neglect to check the air in our tires until we see one that looks low. And few of us worry about our brakes much until they start grinding or squealing. I think it is the same re our socioeconomic and political health too. As long as everything seems okay we don't worry about it a lot.

Consider we have created for ourselves an extremely mentally taxing modern world. A lot of things require our attention a lot of the time (vital or otherwise) and thus the small and not immediately apparent things tend to slip by.

See? You insult, marginalize, dismiss, or demonize ordinary Americans--people earning their own keep and running businesses and raising families--instead of recognizing them as people who are no longer apathetic and who feel justified in being mad as hell.

Because the movement is made of people who are just "mad as hell" and have no message and are less than clueless about political science or even how their own government works. I have little respect for people who cant even be bothered to figure out how their own government works before bitching about it.

They don't see that they need leaders or organization and they don't give a tinkers' dam about demographics.

That sorta backs up my argument that teabaggers are not the sharpest knives in the drawer

They want honesty, integrity, fiscal accountability, and responsibility in their government. They are making it known that is what they expect of their leaders and they will be taking that into account at the ballot box.

We ALL want that. Stapling a teabag to your forehead and adopting a pseudo-sexually named cause does NOT make you worthy of admiration or respect.

I'm hoping they can sustain their passion all the way through the next elections rather than be diverted from such mundane things as mowing their lawns, feeding their kids, earning a living, paying their bills, and such as that.

Yes such terrible things for us to be focused on.

Much better to scream and rant and rave on national television about how the government is taking away all your money rather than, y'know, work.

So if the Tea Partiers are not taking a proactive role in politics who is? What do you define as proactive?

The people trying to actively influence policymakers at their own level, the people trying to bring forward information and present it to the public rather than go on tirades.

AlbqOwl · Feb 28, 2010

Hoplite said:
Consider we have created for ourselves an extremely mentally taxing modern world. A lot of things require our attention a lot of the time (vital or otherwise) and thus the small and not immediately apparent things tend to slip by.

Because the movement is made of people who are just "mad as hell" and have no message and are less than clueless about political science or even how their own government works. I have little respect for people who cant even be bothered to figure out how their own government works before bitching about it.

That sorta backs up my argument that teabaggers are not the sharpest knives in the drawer

We ALL want that. Stapling a teabag to your forehead and adopting a pseudo-sexually named cause does NOT make you worthy of admiration or respect.

Yes such terrible things for us to be focused on.

Much better to scream and rant and rave on national television about how the government is taking away all your money rather than, y'know, work.

The people trying to actively influence policymakers at their own level, the people trying to bring forward information and present it to the public rather than go on tirades.

I think your post primarily demonstrates that you don't know much about the Tea Parties or the people who are investing their time and energy to support them and participate in them.

K-1 · Feb 28, 2010

CaptainCourtesy said:
More proof that you have no clue and that I am correct. Keep going. It is amusing watching you try to work.

Firstly, you continue to demonstrate your hackery. Please post where I said any of the above. Secondly, I am always condescending to partisan hacks. They give the impression that they have no ability to think in any kind of original way. Sometimes it forces them to do so. More often it just pushes them to demonstrate what I accuse them of.

Each and every one of you posts proves what I say. Please offer us anything that isn't SOP for an anti-liberal. I doubt you can.

Dear Mr. Intellectual Lightweight,

Since you cannot perceive the end of a conversation without it being properly outlined. Here is your outline: I am done with you.

Now you can go and enjoy the benefits of your moderator powers elsewhere and continue your pseudo-intellectualism with someone who has the energy to entertain people like you.

There is nothing more humorous than a dolt who thinks he is Cicero.

With love,

K-1.
:2wave:

EgoffTib said:
How about you try supporting an argument for once? Is that too much to ask of you? Or maybe you could tone down the partisan hackery. :shrug:

Let me guess, you're a liberal. :lol:

Only liberals, and dimwitted "moderates," would angrily attack people who give their opinion about who is politically brainwashed in America in a thread that specifically asks for...wait for it...an opinion on who is politically brainwashed in America.

CaptainCourtesy · Feb 28, 2010

K-1 said:
Dear Mr. Intellectual Lightweight,

Since you cannot perceive the end of a conversation without it being properly outlined. Here is your outline: I am done with you.

Now you can go and enjoy the benefits of your moderator powers elsewhere and continue your pseudo-intellectualism with someone who has the energy to entertain people like you.

There is nothing more humorous than a dolt who thinks he is Cicero.

With love,

K-1.
:2wave:

Let me guess, you're a liberal. :lol:

Only liberals, and dimwitted "moderates," would angrily attack people who give their opinion about who is politically brainwashed in America in a thread that specifically asks for...wait for it...an opinion on who is politically brainwashed in America.

Moderator's Warning:

Dear Mr. K-1. It is poor form and against forum rules to call other posters names, though it does seem to be your MO. Please change this behavior or this will continue to happen to you.

with love,

your friendly neighborhood mod.

Hoplite · Feb 28, 2010

AlbqOwl said:
I think your post primarily demonstrates that you don't know much about the Tea Parties or the people who are investing their time and energy to support them and participate in them.

Prove me wrong. I want to do it, prove me ****ing wrong. Show me that there's some sort of stones behind this movement because all I EVER see is a punch of pissed off middle class people who wouldnt know oppression if someone shoved up their arses sideways and put a bloody cherry on it.

Show me that this movement actually has a coherent message and an actual plan beyond converting oxygen to CO2 and creating noise pollution because that's all the teabagger movement seems capable of doing at this point.

The teabaggers cant even pick a leader out, they're too busy arguing with each other about whose teabags are the MOST patriotic and waving signs around making themselves look stupid.

You want me to take the movement seriously? Fine, I'll do that. Just as soon as you give me a bloody reason to do so.

Glinda · Feb 28, 2010

K-1 said:
Evidently, Glinda has no counterargument after I crushed her very silly and tendentious video from BS-NBC, so all she can do is thank a nonsensical and irrelevant post from a pseudo-intellectual hack. :lol:

Liberals are so funny. :lol:

:rofl

There is no need for a counterargument. You puked out a lot of absurd generalizations based on your extreme partisanship. I countered your absurdity with more absurdity.

And you fell right into the trap.

Partisan hacks are so funny. :2wave:

Hmmm. I see that you've been properly spanked and sent to your room. Well done, K-1!

First Thought · Feb 28, 2010

K-1 said:
Let me guess, you're a liberal. :lol:

Libertarian. I can see how you would get the two mixed up.

Only liberals, and dimwitted "moderates," would angrily attack people who give their opinion about who is politically brainwashed in America in a thread that specifically asks for...wait for it...an opinion on who is politically brainwashed in America.

I was asking you to support this statement:

I am not denying that there are some conservative puppets who know nothing at all, but they are exception to the rule. Liberals being mindless indoctrinated puppets is the rule.

That's not an opinion. That is you saying that the majority of Liberals are mindlessly indoctrinated. If you cannot support your argument, be a man and admit it.

AlbqOwl · Feb 28, 2010

Hoplite said:
Prove me wrong. I want to do it, prove me ****ing wrong. Show me that there's some sort of stones behind this movement because all I EVER see is a punch of pissed off middle class people who wouldnt know oppression if someone shoved up their arses sideways and put a bloody cherry on it.

Show me that this movement actually has a coherent message and an actual plan beyond converting oxygen to CO2 and creating noise pollution because that's all the teabagger movement seems capable of doing at this point.

The teabaggers cant even pick a leader out, they're too busy arguing with each other about whose teabags are the MOST patriotic and waving signs around making themselves look stupid.

You want me to take the movement seriously? Fine, I'll do that. Just as soon as you give me a bloody reason to do so.

The message is quite coherant and has been collectively uniform across the country. Mainstream America is sick to death of high taxes that are only producing bigger deficits and deeper debt; they are sick to death of politicians who line their own pockets and that of their cronies and otherwise cater to special interests who will keep them funded and in officer where they can continue to increase their power, prestige, and personal fortunes. They are sick to death of Congress overstepping its intended Constitutional authority and spending the people, their children, and their grand children into a debt they can never hope to pay off.

They call themselves a Tea Party movement because the original Tea Party was a similar kind of grass roots effort without named leaders and outside of any recognized political party.

The average American wants the government to secure their rights and then leave them mostly alone and free to govern themselves.

I suppose to a person committed to big government and willing to sell his heart and soul and personal liberties in return for government provided largesses could have a very difficult time understanding that.

Cilogy · Feb 28, 2010

This makes it sound as if K-1 is that old guy at the supermarket who calls someone a "liberal" when they do something wrong.

Someone ran over my cat! Damn liberals!
:rofl

Hoplite · Feb 28, 2010

AlbqOwl said:
The message is quite coherant and has been collectively uniform across the country. Mainstream America is sick to death of high taxes that are only producing bigger deficits and deeper debt

What high taxes? We're not even in the top 30 for % of GDP made up by taxes

List of countries by tax revenue as percentage of GDP - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

We're barely in the middle for income tax
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/36/Income_Taxes_By_Country.svg

Where are all these crippling taxes?

they are sick to death of politicians who line their own pockets and that of their cronies and otherwise cater to special interests who will keep them funded and in officer where they can continue to increase their power, prestige, and personal fortunes. They are sick to death of Congress overstepping its intended Constitutional authority and spending the people, their children, and their grand children into a debt they can never hope to pay off.

Them and everyone else who votes, that's not exactly a radical position to take.

I'm not going to pat someone on the back for expressing the same thing a million other people express.

They call themselves a Tea Party movement because the original Tea Party was a similar kind of grass roots effort without named leaders and outside of any recognized political party.

Except that the actual Boston Tea Party didnt really do much and the people who participated were motivated by something very specific and had a very specific goal.

We idealize them because we idealize our own history.

The average American wants the government to secure their rights and then leave them mostly alone and free to govern themselves.

Really? Can you support this?

I suppose to a person committed to big government and willing to sell his heart and soul and personal liberties in return for government provided largesses could have a very difficult time understanding that.

Oh ho so very clever, I'm a Socialist so I believe in big government PLUS the picture of the little girl.

First, "big government" has given you things that you take for granted and would SERIOUSLY miss if they were gone. Something people who rant against government forget frequently.

Second, I criticize the teabaggers because they resort to childish methods to make their points. Strapping sandwichboard signs to children too young to understand what's going on is a prime example.

AlbqOwl · Mar 1, 2010

Originally Posted by AlbqOwl

The message is quite coherant and has been collectively uniform across the country. Mainstream America is sick to death of high taxes that are only producing bigger deficits and deeper debt

Response by Hoplite

What high taxes? We're not even in the top 30 for % of GDP made up by taxes

Our country is unique to all other countries in that we are a republic with a central government but also made up of fifty separate sovereign states which in turn are divided into counties or parishes, each with its own government, and each containing villages, towns, and cities that have their own governments.

I am just finishing up our 2009 taxes. We are by no means wealthy or even really 'well off' people, but the combined taxes paid to Federal, State, County, and local governments in 2009 totaled just under 50% of our gross income before ANY deductions or expenses. And that doesn't even count the taxes built into the costs to us for products and services that we paid for during the year.

AlbqOwl:

they are sick to death of politicians who line their own pockets and that of their cronies and otherwise cater to special interests who will keep them funded and in officer where they can continue to increase their power, prestige, and personal fortunes. They are sick to death of Congress overstepping its intended Constitutional authority and spending the people, their children, and their grand children into a debt they can never hope to pay off.

Hoplite

Them and everyone else who votes, that's not exactly a radical position to take.

I'm not going to pat someone on the back for expressing the same thing a million other people express.

But if you agree with them, then they must not be all that radical or out of the mainstream, yes?

Albq Owl

They call themselves a Tea Party movement because the original Tea Party was a similar kind of grass roots effort without named leaders and outside of any recognized political party.

Except that the actual Boston Tea Party didnt really do much and the people who participated were motivated by something very specific and had a very specific goal.

Hoplite

We idealize them because we idealize our own history.

I have no clue what you meant by this. I responded to your criticism of them calling themselves a Tea Party along with your rather snooty evaluation that they must not be much if they don't have identifiable leaders or a printed platform or something to that effect.

AlbqOwl:

The average American wants the government to secure their rights and then leave them mostly alone and free to govern themselves.

Hoplite

Really? Can you support this?

Yep. Because I have been heavily involved with the Tea Party movement and have listened to what the people are saying which you apparently have not.

And there is this which I think should be required reading in every highschool and university in America:
In Search of Self-Governance - Rasmussen Reports

AlbqOwl

I suppose to a person committed to big government and willing to sell his heart and soul and personal liberties in return for government provided largesses could have a very difficult time understanding that.

Hoplite:

Oh ho so very clever, I'm a Socialist so I believe in big government PLUS the picture of the little girl.

First, "big government" has given you things that you take for granted and would SERIOUSLY miss if they were gone. Something people who rant against government forget frequently.

Second, I criticize the teabaggers because they resort to childish methods to make their points. Strapping sandwichboard signs to children too young to understand what's going on is a prime example.

If you are a Socialist you by definition believe in big government and consent to intrusiveness that anti-Socialists would not consent.

In my opinion, you criticize the Tea Partiers and use perjorative terms to describe them because you are a) ignorant about what they are all about and/or b) you are opposed to everything they stand for. If you had a clue about the people involved in those gatherings, you would not be describing them as childish.

Glinda · Mar 1, 2010

Cilogy said:
This makes it sound as if K-1 is that old guy at the supermarket who calls someone a "liberal" when they do something wrong.

Someone ran over my cat! Damn liberals!
:rofl

Heh. He sent me a lovely PM overflowing with spittle-flecked invective. :lamo

I'm pretty sure the guy's crushing on me.

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