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Is the Progressive Movement laboring under a misconception?

Do you think that Rightist are going to simply submit to Leftist Schemes?I

  • I'm on the Left and think that the Right will submit

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I'm on the Left and think that the Right will rebel

    Votes: 1 12.5%
  • I'm on the Right and think that the Right will submit

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I'm on the Right and think that the Right will rebel

    Votes: 4 50.0%
  • I'm in the Middle and think that the Right will submit

    Votes: 1 12.5%
  • I'm in the Middle and think that the Right will rebel

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I'm in the Middle and think what I'm told

    Votes: 2 25.0%

  • Total voters
    8
  • Poll closed .

Oftencold

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Over the last year, I have come to suspect that out leftist friends might not clearly understand certain aspects of the Conservative, Libertarian, and Traditionalist mindset.

So I thought Id throw the question out to the group.

My question is basically this: in light of the Health Care scheme, Cap and Trade scheme, Proposed Immigration amnesty, and so forth, does the left think that the Right will simply submit to such an abrogation of Liberty and Reason?


 
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Over the last year, I have come to suspect that out leftist friends might not clearly understand certain aspects of the Conservative, Libertarian, and Traditionalist mindset.

So I thought Id trow the question out to the group.


making poll, hold yer horses

I think Most of us understand that the "conservatives" of today...bear little resemblance to the conservative idealogy of Goldwater.
 
I am on the left, and could care less what the right thinks. I think us on the left should attempt to do what we feel is best, and if the people agree, we will gain/keep power. I also think this is a badly worded poll, since every option is designed to serve your purpose instead of trying to get people's opinions.
 
Agreed....this is a badly worded and rather silly poll.
 
Which "leftist schemes" are you referring to? Generally the right DOES eventually submit to what the left wants...witness the bizarre spectacle of Senate Republicans rising to the defense of the proletariat by claiming Senate Democrats wanted to cut Medicare benefits. A lot of times it's less overt than that...but most conservatives have also tacitly accepted the idea of social security, progressive taxation, public education, central banking, environmental regulation, etc. (NOTE: Progressives submit to successful conservative policies too.)
 
I think Most of us understand that the "conservatives" of today...bear little resemblance to the conservative idealogy of Goldwater.
I note that you capitalize "Most." There are treatments for Megalomania now.
 
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The wording of this poll makes it hard to understand what the OP is looking for. What exactly will the right rebel against or submit to? Because the left already has mostly won as far reproductive choice, government regulation and civil rights are concerned.
 
Which "leftist schemes" are you referring to? Generally the right DOES eventually submit to what the left wants...witness the bizarre spectacle of Senate Republicans rising to the defense of the proletariat by claiming Senate Democrats wanted to cut Medicare benefits. A lot of times it's less overt than that...but most conservatives have also tacitly accepted the idea of social security, progressive taxation, public education, central banking, environmental regulation, etc. (NOTE: Progressives submit to successful conservative policies too.)
Please re-read the O. P., slowly. Take your time, we'll wait.
 
I am on the left, and could care less what the right thinks. I think us on the left should attempt to do what we feel is best, and if the people agree, we will gain/keep power. I also think this is a badly worded poll, since every option is designed to serve your purpose instead of trying to get people's opinions.

Going by the polls for the current proposed HCR the democrats in charge don't even care about what the people think. They're still going to try and get it passed regardless of what anyone thinks.
 
Please re-read the O. P., slowly. Take your time, we'll wait.

Oh, I didn't see that you edited it.

It still doesn't really clarify what you mean by "submit" or "rebel" to it, or on what timeline you're talking about. Do I think that the Senate Republicans are going to raise up an army to fight a civil war over cap-and-trade? No. Do I expect any Senate Republicans to vote for it? No.

In the long term, most Republicans will accept the health care bill (assuming it passes), just as they do with medicare and social security now. Cap-and-trade doesn't have much hope for actually passing, so I wouldn't expect them to accept it. As for immigration amnesty, I'm particularly confused by what "submitting" to it would entail. If a law is passed giving illegal immigrants amnesty (as it was during the 1980s), what other choice would they have but to submit to it? You can't take it back once it has been issued. :confused:

I agree with those who say this poll is very poorly worded. I'm really not sure what exactly you're asking.
 
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Thank you. I am always gratified when people are willing to confess their glaring cognitive and ethical weaknesses.

That was neither a cognitive nor ethical weakness. I think what us on the left support is ethical, and I think doing what we think is right is appropriate. Nothing wrong with that. It's ironic that you would misunderstand while complaining about a cognitive flaw, and complain that doing what we think is right is unethical.
 
No "other" option = fail

But in the interest of playing along I will answer:

I think both sides expect irrational things out of the other side. End.
 
I think Most of us understand that the "conservatives" of today...bear little resemblance to the conservative idealogy of Goldwater.

Because they're not as extreme as Goldwater? (Don't all want to repeal Social Security, Medicare, welfare, etc.)

Or because they disagree on two issues? (Gay marriage and abortion)
 
Because they're not as extreme as Goldwater? (Don't all want to repeal Social Security, Medicare, welfare, etc.)

Or because they disagree on two issues? (Gay marriage and abortion)

I'd vote for Goldwater today, but most Republicans wouldn't.
 
Submit, rebel, do what you are told. Some lousy choices:spin:
This is not me!
And I hope this is not the way of mankind.
Yes, mankind, not "person-kind" !
You may label me as a progressive, but do not use super-glue.:mrgreen:
Both "gay marriage" and abortion I find disgusting, but, as most people want this, and intelligent/pragmatic man will not stand in the way.
Legal abortion will fade away when we become civilized.
When we are more tolerant, "gay" marriage will be accepted and the homosexuals will not feel bad about it. And religion will "grow up" and accept this as a minor glitch, nothing more....
Happy Holidays
Adrian
 
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I'd vote for Goldwater today

Based on what I've seen from you so far - which, granted, isn't much - I find it kind of hard to believe that you would vote for him if you fully understood his positions.

but most Republicans wouldn't.

Mostly because he was so much further to the right than they are. Today, saying that you want to eliminate Medicare, Medicaid, welfare, and Social Security will not carry you very far politically. Being more accepting of the possibility of using nuclear weapons probably wouldn't help either. These positions would probably do him a lot more harm today than his stances on abortion and gay marriage, which are the only two issues where he took a more liberal position.
 
Because they're not as extreme as Goldwater? (Don't all want to repeal Social Security, Medicare, welfare, etc.)

Or because they disagree on two issues? (Gay marriage and abortion)

Goldwater would have opposed the Iraq War, Afghanistan War, Gulf War etc. He also would have opposed faith based initiatives or any intrusion of religion into government matters. It is a lot more than 'two issues'. A lot of them are issues on which you still find major support from the right wing in this country.
 
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Goldwater would have opposed the Iraq War, Afghanistan War, Gulf War etc.

That is questionable. He was a very hard-liner on Vietnam, I don't see why he wouldn't be the same on Iraq or Afghanistan.

He also would have opposed faith based initiatives or any intrusion of religion into government matters.

OK, but unless you count abortion and gay marriage (which I don't) there aren't really many big issues which involve intrusion of religion into government.
 
That is questionable. He was a very hard-liner on Vietnam, I don't see why he wouldn't be the same on Iraq or Afghanistan.

Goldwater wasn't a hardliner on Vietnam. He was a hardliner on the spread of communism. There is a distinct difference.

OK, but unless you count abortion and gay marriage (which I don't) there aren't really many big issues which involve intrusion of religion into government.

ORLY? The last administration is proof that religion, in particular far right social conservative christianity is doing its best to infiltrate the high ranks of government. From aides to people like Karl Rove to advisors to the U.S. President. Then you have the many Republican congressmen trying to reintroduce prayer in U.S. schools. Followed by the many Christians who go on rallies whenever they are told that nobody needs to see the 10 commandments in front of a secular court room. These are all huge issues that pop up every year. They might not be as consistent in the attention of the public but they are issues which people spend millions of dollars battling in court over and suing for.
 
Goldwater wasn't a hardliner on Vietnam. He was a hardliner on the spread of communism. There is a distinct difference.

Doesn't change the fact that he was an interventionist, and supported an aggressive foreign policy. I don't see any reason why he wouldn't have supported Iraq or Afghanistan, especially the latter.

ORLY? The last administration is proof that religion, in particular far right social conservative christianity is doing its best to infiltrate the high ranks of government. From aides to people like Karl Rove to advisors to the U.S. President. Then you have the many Republican congressmen trying to reintroduce prayer in U.S. schools. Followed by the many Christians who go on rallies whenever they are told that nobody needs to see the 10 commandments in front of a secular court room. These are all huge issues that pop up every year. They might not be as consistent in the attention of the public but they are issues which people spend millions of dollars battling in court over and suing for.

They are not "huge" issues. They are little blips on the radar that nobody's going to lose any votes over. The fact that millions of dollars are spent in court on these issues is irrelevant; that money is spent by the few people who actually feel strongly about these things. Most Republicans wouldn't change their vote just because they heard that their candidate doesn't support displaying the 10 commandments in a court room. You are much more likely to lose Republican votes, especially from the elderly, by saying that you want to eliminate Medicare.
 
I think Most of us understand that the "conservatives" of today...bear little resemblance to the conservative idealogy of Goldwater.

And you wouldn't respect them or care what Goldwater conservatives thought either, since you are a pretty liberal poster. There is no "I like Goldwater conservatism, but I am going to support modern Democrats" ideal one can truthfully fulfill.
 
Please re-read the O. P., slowly. Take your time, we'll wait.



Please re-write the OP, slowly!! Take your time, then maybe it will make a little more sense, and upon careful reading we will actually be able to discern something from it!!
 
I think I'm pretty much in that middle-left portion of the left leaning centrists in that there are times when I appreciate those in the middle point of the right wing centrists for their willingness to stand up for the conservation of those liberal principles we have come to love historically, while I often show an equal disdain for the left leaning portion of the left for its abrogation of such and the right leaning portion of the right for the fact it never cared for these principles in the first place, all the time simultaneously advocating those principles once agreed upon as liberal, but now under increasing attack form the left as well as right, leaving me considering the possibility that at some point in the never ending mutation of these political labels I might end up on the left leaning portion of the right wing centrists simply because nobody else realizes the need to conserve liberal values no matter what they are called by clueless lunkheads on both sides of the political spectrum.


I hope that helps.
 
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