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Does life biologically begin at conception?

Does a new person's life "biologically" begin at conception?

  • Total voters
    72
Chuz Life said:
LOL.

:spin:<--- detected

Shot down,... ?

Not even shouted down.

:rofl :rofl

When I run up against someone who has no defense other than to dismiss everything you throw at them,.. including the dictionary,... I know they are a complete waste of time.

Even in the U.S. Code,... most laws begin with a reference to terms and definitions.

But then,.. I digress.
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It was a joke referencing the atmosphere in some threads, but hey, whatever makes you feel secure. :D
 
EpicDude86 said:
It was a joke referencing the atmosphere in some threads, but hey, whatever makes you feel secure. :D
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Dude, say what you mean and mean what you say.

For as long as you have been posting,... I'm sure you know that it's not easy to tell when others are being sarcastic or telling a joke.

I don't know you well enough to know one way or the other, so I hope you will forgive my defensivness.
 
Chuz Life said:
Dude, say what you mean and mean what you say.

For as long as you have been posting,... I'm sure you know that it's not easy to tell when others are being sarcastic or telling a joke.

I don't know you well enough to know one way or the other, so I hope you will forgive my defensivness.
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I thought maybe starting with :lol: and ending with a ;) would hint at its humorous undertones. :lol:
 
I'm a hard-line anti-abortion thinker, and I had to vote no on this. The concept of the individual does not begin at conception, and for good reason. At conception, the zygote can still become multiple individuals, or it can die because it isn't fit for self-sustained life. So the individual life does not begin at conception. However, should it be killed? I say no way. Though it isn't an individual yet and may not ever be, it represents a potential human life and I can never defend murder.
 
Chuz Life said:
Indeed it does,.. but it doesn't tell me who you were joking with or at who's expense.
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I rarely draw battle lines so I could laugh at you in one thread and with you in another. Don't spend too much time thinking about what I'm doing or American will sneak up behind you and clobber you with a stick.


Then...


we feast.
 
EpicDude86 said:
I rarely draw battle lines so I could laugh at you in one thread and with you in another. Don't spend too much time thinking about what I'm doing or American will sneak up behind you and clobber you with a stick.

Then...

we feast.
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Same goes for me then.
 
phattonez said:
I'm a hard-line anti-abortion thinker, and I had to vote no on this. The concept of the individual does not begin at conception, and for good reason. At conception, the zygote can still become multiple individuals, or it can die because it isn't fit for self-sustained life. So the individual life does not begin at conception. However, should it be killed? I say no way. Though it isn't an individual yet and may not ever be, it represents a potential human life and I can never defend murder.
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Phat,... do you know about Dolly the cloned sheep?

Using your logic (above) none of us are individuals. As,... we could all (potentially) become more than one of ourselves.

Regardless,... I'm glad you oppose elective abortions.

How you get there is okay by me.
 
Chuz Life said:
From the "Compromise on abortion" thread;

Does everyone agree with myself and Rivrrat that a new person's life "biologically" begins at the moment of their conception?

Yes or no?
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Yes - but irrelevant to the abortion debate.
 
Chuz Life said:
You said that no-one would deny these facts, Rivvr...

Can you see now that they do?
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Most of the folks are not actually denying that there is life. They're denying things like "individuality", "separate lifeform", "viability", etc.

There is absolutely no way that a single one of them can argue that it's not living, or a living organism. And, thus far, not a single one of them is trying to. They're arguing something else entirely.

EDIT: However, I did notice that you took a quote of mine completely out of context to start this thread. That quote had NOTHING to do with when life biologically begins and everything to do with your assertions that people were saying that mammals "morph" from one organism to another during their lifespan. And there's not a person here that I've seen make any such assertion that we, or any other mammals, "morph" into different organisms.
 
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Chuz Life said:
Phat,... do you know about Dolly the cloned sheep?

Using your logic (above) none of us are individuals. As,... we could all (potentially) become more than one of ourselves.

Regardless,... I'm glad you oppose elective abortions.

How you get there is okay by me.
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Potentially, after a ton of manipulation. Dolly required gathering cells from the utter, manipulating them due to epigenetic modifications and methylation to induce pluripotency, and then these cells were fused with eggs. That's nothing like a zygote, which requires none of that.
 
phattonez said:
Potentially, after a ton of manipulation. Dolly required gathering cells from the utter, manipulating them due to epigenetic modifications and methylation to induce pluripotency, and then these cells were fused with eggs. That's nothing like a zygote, which requires none of that.
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Potentially means potentially.... doesn't it?
 
Chuz Life said:
Potentially means potentially.... doesn't it?
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phattonez said:
Potentially, after a ton of manipulation....That's nothing like a zygote, which requires none of that.
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epicdude86-albums-stuff-picture1285-3d-dinosaur.png
 
Chuz Life said:
Potentially means potentially.... doesn't it?
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Maybe if you don't understand the science behind what it requires for a differentiated adult cell to become pluripotent again.
 
He has already demonstrated that he believes that an undifferentiated zygote is an individual.
 
phattonez said:
Maybe if you don't understand the science behind what it requires for a differentiated adult cell to become pluripotent again.
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Sure I do.

It's a very tedious and difficult process that has only been accomplished in human's ONCE (that I know of).


michelle-obama.jpg


:::shudder:::
 
Manc Skipper said:
Sorry, I wasn't clear. Chuz, in comparing an undifferentiate zygote with an adult, has demonstrated his lack of scientific understanding.
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A human zygote is a child (human being/ person) in the most narrow and basic sense. An adult human is likewise a "person."

Both are persons,..

A Ford Pinto and a Ferarri are both cars (automobiles). I don't have to equate the two to recognize the fact that they are both automobiles.
 
Chuz Life said:
A human zygote is a child (human being/ person) in the most narrow and basic sense. An adult human is likewise a "person."

Both are persons,..

A Ford Pinto and a Ferarri are both cars (automobiles). I don't have to equate the two to recognize the fact that they are both automobiles.
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No, it's not. Sometimes a zygote just can't develop a person because of mutated proteins. Sometimes you get twins from zygotes. Although rare, these events do happen. You get an individual at gastrulation. Does that mean it is okay to kill before that point? Frankly, I don't believe so.
 
Chuz Life said:
A human zygote is a child (human being/ person) in the most narrow and basic sense. An adult human is likewise a "person."

Both are persons,..
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That is scientifically incorrect. A zygote is not a homosapien by scientific definition.

Chuz Life said:
A Ford Pinto and a Ferarri are both cars (automobiles). I don't have to equate the two to recognize the fact that they are both automobiles.
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A Ford Pinto and a Ferrari are both cars, but a pile of parts in an auto factory is not a car just because it "could become a Ford Pinto or a Ferrari" after it is fully developed at the factory. ;)
 
Toothpicvic said:
That is scientifically incorrect. A zygote is not a homosapien by scientific definition.


A Ford Pinto and a Ferrari are both cars, but a pile of parts in an auto factory is not a car just because it "could become a Ford Pinto or a Ferrari" after it is fully developed at the factory. ;)
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A Child in the fetal stage of their life is not a pile of parts.

Persons are not assembled. They live, grow, further develop and mature. That is, they will grow and mature if they are not killed before they get the chance.
 
Chuz Life said:
A Child in the fetal stage of their life is not a pile of parts.
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That is scientifically incorrect. It is not possible for a child to exist in the fetal stage of development (that would be fetuses/embryos). A child can only exist after being fully developed in the womb according to science.

Chuz Life said:
Persons are not assembled. They live, grow, further develop and mature. That is, they will grow and mature if they are not killed before they get the chance.
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That is scientifically incorrect. A fetus/embryo is not homosapien according to scientific definition.
 
phattonez said:
No, it's not. Sometimes a zygote just can't develop a person because of mutated proteins. Sometimes you get twins from zygotes. Although rare, these events do happen. You get an individual at gastrulation. Does that mean it is okay to kill before that point? Frankly, I don't believe so.
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Neither do I.

And stating that "sometimes a zygote can't develop" does not dispute the biological fact that a new organism's life begins at the moment of their conception. This is true in all mammals,... not only humans.
 
Toothpicvic said:
A Ford Pinto and a Ferrari are both cars, but a pile of parts in an auto factory is not a car just because it "could become a Ford Pinto or a Ferrari" after it is fully developed at the factory. ;)
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No no no... it has the POTENTIAL to be a Ferrari, therefore it IS a Ferrari! Potential is all that matters. Didn't you know that?? ;)
 
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