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What is the most powerful nation in Europe?

What is the Most Powerful Nation in Europe?

  • Bundesrepublik Deutschland (Federal Republic of Germany)

    Votes: 36 42.4%

  • United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

    Votes: 33 38.8%

  • Cinquième République de la France (Fifth Republic of France)

    Votes: 6 7.1%

  • other

    Votes: 10 11.8%
  • Total voters
    85
TurtleDude said:
Russia but isn't this question like asking who was the hottest East German female swimmer circa 1980?
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I'm not sure what you mean. Are you attempting to insinuate that Britain, France and Russia are not powerful?

Because that would just truly be a statement made in total ignorance.
 
Le Marteau said:
I am consistently confounded by the willful ignorance of the American people towards the proud military history of France. I don't really understand how Americans (of all people) can say that France is a cowardly nation, when you compare the two side-by-side.

If you can give me a single instance outside of the World-War II blitzkrieg of France giving up without a fight (and it ought be noted that in the Second World War, France didn't give up without a fight, and even went on to become a vital part of the war effort even in the face of occupation), I'll admit total defeat. France is, has been, and always will be a militarily powerful and courageous nation -- and I challenge anyone to prove me wrong on this.

Furthermore, I might note that America has lost more wars than the French Republic has, and they were both created in the same time-frame (the end of the 18th century).
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ever googled wars france won? As my late grandfather (who was decorated by Petain with the croix de Guerre for saving several hundred French in "the Great war") noted, all the brave frenchmen were killed off in that war as they charged Maxim guns. Those left to breed were the yellow bellies and what they produced was the cowards who gave into the Third Reich.

you all didn't do any better in Vietnam. you all lost in WWII-we didn't.
 
TurtleDude said:
ever googled wars france won? As my late grandfather (who was decorated by Petain with the croix de Guerre for saving several hundred French in "the Great war") noted, all the brave frenchmen were killed off in that war as they charged Maxim guns. Those left to breed were the yellow bellies and what they produced was the cowards who gave into the Third Reich.

you all didn't do any better in Vietnam. you all lost in WWII-we didn't.
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Yes, what a hilarious joke, google French victories, and some tool has payed to get his site full of anti-French slander in the first slot. How impressive.

Anyway, I'd like you to note how it was the Free French Army, under Charles de Gaulle, that re-captured Paris in the Second World War -- and it was the Free French in North Africa that cornered Rommel in his Egyptian hole -- and it was the French Resistance that made the entirety of the D-Day landings possible.

Secondly, I don't recall the Americans faring very well in Vietnam, either -- nor in Korea, nor Angola, nor Cuba. Whereas the French, during the Cold War period, managed to put down revolt in Algeria, retake the Suez Canal (until political mitigation gave it to Nasser), and inflict more casualties on the North Vietnamese in a single battle (Dien Bien Phu) than the Americans did in three years.

Furthermore, I noticed you didn't respond to the fact that America has lost more wars than the French Republic has, in their equal time here on Earth. I'll also note that America has not seen the great military and political minds that France has seen, even in that time frame -- to name a few, Napoleon Bonaparte and his numerous victories against pretty much every other nation on Earth (it took a seventh try by all of those combined nations to bring him down), Napoleon III and his successes in the Crimean War and in colonial Africa, Charles de Gaulle and his victories against the Nazis in Europe and then the Muslim insurgents in Algeria...

I'd also like to note that one of the wars America lost was the Caribbean War (sometimes called the Quasi-War in the States) TO FRANCE.
 
Goldenboy219 said:
Russia cannot properly fund a serious war machine with oil alone. With an economy primarily driven on oil exports (and exports in general), the act of war would do much to temporarily sever many or all trade ties during conflict.

I have no doubt Germany could become a major military power given time and need. However, it is France that is the major military power in Europe, not GB. IMHO of course or until they surrender:mrgreen:
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Again I am being harassed by the Nationalist Republican Fascists.
Pathetic antiphilosophers and blind agenda followers. These people live in a society that has become a dogmatic closed society, and they are in full denial about it, the strongest human defense mechanism. Incredibly sad....
 
Le Marteau said:
Yes, what a hilarious joke, google French victories, and some tool has payed to get his site full of anti-French slander in the first slot. How impressive.

Anyway, I'd like you to note how it was the Free French Army, under Charles de Gaulle, that re-captured Paris in the Second World War -- and it was the Free French in North Africa that cornered Rommel in his Egyptian hole -- and it was the French Resistance that made the entirety of the D-Day landings possible.

Secondly, I don't recall the Americans faring very well in Vietnam, either -- nor in Korea, nor Angola, nor Cuba. Whereas the French, during the Cold War period, managed to put down revolt in Algeria, retake the Suez Canal (until political mitigation gave it to Nasser), and inflict more casualties on the North Vietnamese in a single battle (Dien Bien Phu) than the Americans did in three years.

Furthermore, I noticed you didn't respond to the fact that America has lost more wars than the French Republic has, in their equal time here on Earth. I'll also note that America has not seen the great military and political minds that France has seen, even in that time frame -- to name a few, Napoleon Bonaparte and his numerous victories against pretty much every other nation on Earth (it took a seventh try by all of those combined nations to bring him down), Napoleon III and his successes in the Crimean War and in colonial Africa, Charles de Gaulle and his victories against the Nazis in Europe and then the Muslim insurgents in Algeria...

I'd also like to note that one of the wars America lost was the Caribbean War (sometimes called the Quasi-War in the States) TO FRANCE.
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we attacked cuba with our military? angola? yeah those french really were able to do all that on their own in WWII
dien bien phu-yeah that was an astounding French victory.

what wars did we lose? help me out on that one. remind me who occupied us for 6 years and who most of our leaders collaborated with during the occupation.

your best fighting force is called the FOREIGN LEGION.

mostly ex Wermacht at its hey day
 
TurtleDude said:
we attacked cuba with our military? angola? yeah those french really were able to do all that on their own in WWII
dien bien phu-yeah that was an astounding French victory.

what wars did we lose? help me out on that one. remind me who occupied us for 6 years and who most of our leaders collaborated with during the occupation.

your best fighting force is called the FOREIGN LEGION.

mostly ex Wermacht at its hey day
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Yes, you did attack Cuba and Angola with your military. How did you not know this? Look them up. There's no debate -- it's a fact. Both times, you lost.

Secondly, "on their own" means nothing in a World War II context -- nobody was able to do anything "on their own" in World War II. What did the Americans do "on their own" in World War II?

Dien Bien Phu was not an astounding French victory -- but it was significantly more impactual towards the North Vietnamese than any single battle the Americans fought during their war in Vietnam -- which I might remind you, you lost -- with a much higher death toll and much less success than the French occupation there.

Furthermore, the Americans have lost five "major" wars since the formal creation of your state -- and they are, in chronological order, the Caribbean War, the War of 1812, the Korean War, the Vietnam War, and the Angolan War.

It says something that the only people who contest any of these American defeats are American themselves.


And finally, don't talk to me about the French Foreign Legion -- I served for five years with that very force. I'll have you know that about 25% of the service members are French, and 100% of the officers are French.
 
Le Marteau said:
Yes, you did attack Cuba and Angola with your military. How did you not know this? Look them up. There's no debate -- it's a fact. Both times, you lost.

Secondly, "on their own" means nothing in a World War II context -- nobody was able to do anything "on their own" in World War II. What did the Americans do "on their own" in World War II?

Dien Bien Phu was not an astounding French victory -- but it was significantly more impactual towards the North Vietnamese than any single battle the Americans fought during their war in Vietnam -- which I might remind you, you lost -- with a much higher death toll and much less success than the French occupation there.

Furthermore, the Americans have lost five "major" wars since the formal creation of your state -- and they are, in chronological order, the Caribbean War, the War of 1812, the Korean War, the Vietnam War, and the Angolan War.

It says something that the only people who contest any of these American defeats are American themselves.


And finally, don't talk to me about the French Foreign Legion -- I served for five years with that very force. I'll have you know that about 25% of the service members are French, and 100% of the officers are French.
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LOL, after TET the vietcong was pretty much finished-our press convinced the public we had lost when in reality we had crushed the NVA and VC.

The FFL is good mainly because its members are from all over the place. But France has been a nation of cowards for years. You guys bent over backwards to help the Nazis. look it up
 
TurtleDude said:
LOL, after TET the vietcong was pretty much finished-our press convinced the public we had lost when in reality we had crushed the NVA and VC.

The FFL is good mainly because its members are from all over the place. But France has been a nation of cowards for years. You guys bent over backwards to help the Nazis. look it up
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I am very familiar with the Vichy French collaboration period -- and I am also very familiar with the Free French Army's victories across Europe and North Africa, as well as the thousands of brave French who died fighting the guerrilla war against the Nazis and collaborators.

Now, would you please, please show me a single other example of French cowardice? Because I think your entire misguided and politicised argument comes from the collaboration period from 1941 to 1944, and you still totally disregard the mountains of evidence FROM THAT VERY TIME PERIOD that proves French courage in the form of the Resistance and the FFA -- not to mention two thousand years of being one of the dominant military powers on the planet before that (as well as after).
 
Le Marteau said:
I'd also like to note that one of the wars America lost was the Caribbean War (sometimes called the Quasi-War in the States) TO FRANCE.
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Not that I really give a **** about which side won more battles hundreds of years ago, but in what alternate universe was this:

a) a war, and
b) a French victory?

Quasi-War: Definition from Answers.com

By May 1798, the U.S. war sloop Ganges was guarding the coast between Long Island and the Chesapeake, joined in June by the Constellation and the United States. In July 1798, Stephen Decatur, on the sloop Delaware, captured the French schooner Croyable off New Jersey. After the British navy defeated French forces in the Battle of the Nile (1 August 1798), the U.S. Navy drove the French away from the U.S. coast to the Caribbean. Ten important naval engagements ensued, six of them in February and March 1799. The Americans lost only once: the Retaliation (formerly the Croyable) was captured in November 1798. In February 1799, the Constellation captured the frigate L’Insurgente. The French captain blamed U.S. Capt. Thomas Truxtun for provoking war between the United States and France.

Despite ship‐to‐ship actions and U.S. support for former slave Toussaint Louverture's independence movement on Haiti, neither side declared war. Adams resisted Federalist pressure for war; while congressional Federalists created a provisional army with Washington as commander in chief and Alexander Hamilton as second in command, Adams favored a strong navy to make the United States independent of both England and France. The French Army, he told Hamilton, was more likely to invade heaven than the United States.

Napoleon's coup d’ état on 9 November 1799 changed French politics and policy. Needing the support of neutral Denmark and Sweden, he returned in December 1799 to the principle that neutral ships make neutral goods. American diplomats at the Hague (William Vans Murray) and Berlin (John Quincy Adams) sent word that France wanted to negotiate. In November 1799, Adams dispatched official envoys to France.
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Summary: The US and the France were pissy at each other, they sent nasty letters back and forth, and a double handful of ships fired at each other. The US captured more ships than the French, Napoleon gave the French leadership a swift kick in the dick, and then the French asked the US to negotiate. Not sure how that's a war or a french victory.
 
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Goldenboy219 said:
Russia cannot properly fund a serious war machine with oil alone. With an economy primarily driven on oil exports (and exports in general), the act of war would do much to temporarily sever many or all trade ties during conflict.

I have no doubt Germany could become a major military power given time and need. However, it is France that is the major military power in Europe, not GB. IMHO of course or until they surrender:mrgreen:
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No UK policies have been implemented in Europe the past 30 years.
 
Djoop said:
Germany, economics define todays power.
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Not really. If the German effort was there they could build a good navy comparable to GB and then the fight would be all over for GB.

I'm suprised noone has said Russia? Maybe not enough posts yet.
 
davidwillson said:
Not really. If the German effort was there they could build a good navy comparable to GB and then the fight would be all over for GB.

I'm suprised noone has said Russia? Maybe not enough posts yet.
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I said Russia as did at least a couple posters above my post (I read the opening post and replied before reading other comments)

see 272 and post 273
 
Le Marteau said:
I am very familiar with the Vichy French collaboration period -- and I am also very familiar with the Free French Army's victories across Europe and North Africa, as well as the thousands of brave French who died fighting the guerrilla war against the Nazis and collaborators.
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One comment, Dien Bien Phu. :shrug: (all other French defeats pale in comparison)
 
FluffyNinja said:
One comment, Dien Bien Phu. :shrug: (all other French defeats pale in comparison)
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endocrine system failures. the French couldn't fathom the VM getting artillery in a position to harass their fortified positions but charlie managed to hump cannon up the cliffs and hills and it was bad news for the French after that,

the French lost because they projected French weakness on their enemies and planned for French level opposition
 
TurtleDude said:
endocrine system failures. the French couldn't fathom the VM getting artillery in a position to harass their fortified positions but charlie managed to hump cannon up the cliffs and hills and it was bad news for the French after that,

the French lost because they projected French weakness on their enemies and planned for French level opposition
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Yup! Also puts a whole new perspective on French "military strategy"..............................."We'll take the low ground!" :flame:
 
FluffyNinja said:
Yup! Also puts a whole new perspective on French "military strategy"..............................."We'll take the low ground!" :flame:
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yeah they figured the VM would attack like it was WWI and the Rench airpower would wipe them out. they didn't expect the VM to have massive Triple A that made the French Airpower rather worthless or that they would be getting hammered 24-7 with shelling. after a while lots of the French-who were living on benzedrine just collapsed as their endocrine systems short circuited.
 
This seems to be a rather silly, partisan discussion that fails for a number of reasons. Firstly, no one has defined terms. What do we mean, 'the most powerful'?, what do we mean, 'in Europe'? Secondly, it's a shame that insults and point-scoring have taken the place of rational discussion. How the military tactics of the battle of Dien Bien Phu contributes to deciding which is the most powerful country in Europe is quite beyond me.
 
Andalublue said:
This seems to be a rather silly, partisan discussion that fails for a number of reasons. Firstly, no one has defined terms. What do we mean, 'the most powerful'?, what do we mean, 'in Europe'? Secondly, it's a shame that insults and point-scoring have taken the place of rational discussion. How the military tactics of the battle of Dien Bien Phu contributes to deciding which is the most powerful country in Europe is quite beyond me.
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This seems to be a rather strange comment in which reasons turn out to be questions or moralistic comments and two questions count as one.

Plz be so kind to select one of the poll options, leave out your motivation and ridicule the posters before you like the rest of us Anda.
 
Ikari said:
Probably Germany in terms of economic might. The UK in terms of political/military might.
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I would say the German army is more powerful because it's the largest military in Europe.. I don't know much about military technology, but I would say Germany in that area too given their history of engineering. UK was always known to have a great navy until wwii
 
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Djoop said:
This seems to be a rather strange comment in which reasons turn out to be questions or moralistic comments and two questions count as one.

Plz be so kind to select one of the poll options, leave out your motivation and ridicule the posters before you like the rest of us Anda.
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Come again? Could you repeat that in English?

I will repeat, that military tactics at one battle in Vietnam in 1954 has absolutely nothing to do with which European nation is the most powerful.

Until you define what you mean by most powerful, the debate is utterly pointless. You can regard such an opinion as ridicule if you want, but then you'd be failing in your definition of that common English word too.
 
SheWolf said:
I would say the German army is more powerful because it's the largest military in Europe.. I don't know much about military technology, but I would say Germany in that area too given their history of engineering. UK was always known to have a great navy until wwii
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Well, no. Germany does not have the largest military in Europe. Russia does by some huge margin. Germany doesn't even have the largest military in the EU. France, Italy, UK and Spain all have larger militaries.
List of countries by number of troops - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
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