What is the most powerful nation in Europe?

Gray_Fox_86 · Dec 4, 2009

kaya'08 said:
With or without Nukes, the Germans would be hard pressed getting to the UK. Firstly our missiles are far more superior than the Germans. They'd loose alot of men and ships just getting to the UK. Not to mention they lack in the Naval area when compared to Briton. Lastly, if the Nukes where used at sea to take out a nice handful of war and cargo ships, in such an isolated place, i doubt it would be that hard for the British Defence ministry to press the big red button. And, the UK has far better contacts on the international stage; full US backing, something Germany is seriously lacking, especially France.

Fare enough.....but my money is still on Germany

PeteEU · Dec 4, 2009

Ikari said:
Society wise...What!? Do you read what you type or does it all such sorta puke itself out on the keyboard. How the hell is the UK dependent upon the US for society? They're not like us, they're government is too aggressive against the rights and liberties of the individual.

They have their own politics, they don't need the US. They have their own economy, they don't need the US.

Sure, that is why euro-skeptic Conservative politicians go to the US to smear the opposition (and their own party) and the EU.. Why? because they have sympathetic ears over there and not in Europe to spread their lies.

The economic collapse was fueled by their banks buying bad morgages from our banks. The collapse ultimately happened because regulations on the side of the US were relaxed to match those of Europe in terms of banks leveraging. The leverage was not sustainable, and our involvement in it pushed the system over board.

And it was made worse by the high personal debt of the Brits, like that of Americans. Plus the very low saving rate. Sorry but the UK economy had far more likeness to the US than to other European countries.

There's not a lot of similarities between the US and the UK, we don't even use the same form of English (the British slaughter the English language). The government is different, the attitudes are different, etc. If the UK was the European US, they'd be a hell of a lot cooler than they actually are.

The UK and US are far more similar than you make it out to be. And the British do not slaughter the English language.. they invented it. And you dare to call me "stuck up" later on.. gezz, talk about arrogance in claiming a language called English over the nation where the language came from..

Numbers does not equate into better. The UK has the better military because it is better trained and better armed wit better technology. It could hands down beat the snot out of France or Germany's military. Any day of the week.

And you base this on what empirical fact? Are you saying the American made planes, tanks and helicopters in the German military are inferior to that of the British? Are you saying that the jets that the British, French and Germans are making and phasing into their military forces are inferior technology wise in the hands of the French and Germans and when in the hands of the British they are superior all of a sudden?

They may use some of their stuff. Hell, how many countries use US military equipment? A lot. It doesn't make their military better than ours. You get some of the equipment, but not all. The UK military is well more advanced and armed than France or Germany. Sorry, but that's the truth.

And you can prove this of course? And see above.

Outside Europe, UK is viewed as the dominate country of Europe and has more political sway with international politics than either France or Germany. All France can do is sell food for oil with Saddam's old regime, and Germany is too busy pretending WW II never happened.

Says who? What do you base this on? What is a "dominate" country? I have never said that the UK did not have "power" overseas, just not far superior power than that of Germany or France or the EU.. especially Germany. Germany is just as much a dominant country around the world as the UK, if not more on economic matters and hence political matters that do not require military intervention.

Thank you for proving my point. This is exactly what I said. It's all your anti-American stuff.

What anti-American stuff? Amazing how you read "anti-American" stuff into everything a non American says remotely about the US.

You view UK too much like the US (which isn't true), and engage in slander and hatred against them because of it. Man you people are full of yourselves.

It is much like the US as I have proved. The UK economy is very similar on many fronts to that of the US. High personal unsecured debt, reliance of debt for economic growth, and for the most part the UK backs any and all US economic policies. There are also many cultural links between the UK and US... far more than the UK has with mainland Europe.

You're so stuck up, you carry these huge anti-American feelings for no reason.

I am stuck up? I am not claiming superiority for my country and its closest ally based on wishful thinking. The facts are very clear, the UK is relatively not as "powerful" in Europe or world wide as Germany and some what France (in Europe at least).

And what anti-American feelings? Being critical of the US right is not being "anti-American".. it is being sensible.

And you carry them to such degree that you'll point your hate at anyone or anything remotely like the United States. It's PATHETIC. And that's fact.

Again prove it.

The wise grandfather rounds up Jews and kills them in mass? Man, I'm glad I wasn't part of that family. And Germany wasn't isolated from the economic mess. They based their markets on American consumerism. Which is why they were continually demanding that America continue to buy German crap at the same rate when the economy slowed down initially. This is nothing more than some slanted view based on your BIGOTRY and HATRED. And that too is fact

So you cant prove your points and you result to insults and personal attacks.. nice.. Guess I should start throwing the Indian genocide against you, or how about segregation and slavery?

You do know how reliant Japan is on America, right?

Define "reliant".

To buy their stuff? Yea, same goes for China and Germany you know.. almost every other country out there that exports.

Politically? Not as much as it use to be.. far far from it.

Defence? Yep, since Japan is not allowed to have a large military, but that will change soon too I suspect.

But denying that Japan is not a major political power around the world is frankly the pinnacle of arrogance and stupidity. The amount of money Japan spends around the world to finance everything from humanitarian aid to even the US military operations is considerable. You do know that Germany and Japan contributed 16 billion out of 61 billion dollars to the first Gulf War right?

Laila · Dec 4, 2009

Ikari said:
I think some of the anti-UK stuff comes from the same anti-US folk who argue against it just to argue against it. And I think this sorta hatred for the UK is rooted in the same sort of thing. There are things about the UK to not like, mostly their laws and Big Brother attitude. But there's no doubting their influence and in terms of global politics other nations listen to the UK before France or Germany. Germany is a powerhouse of production, it's what they do. But politically they're rather weak. And even if they have a large military in numbers, but number doesn't make better.

Ah, UK is seen as the 'black sheep' in Europe.
I have had arguments with European tourists in London who do not see the British as "European" but more "American" and because of that link, they see fit to try and insult UK.

I have noticed with every European I have come across that dislike US so much it borders on obsession comes from a feeling of jealousy and envy.
Europeans know that if they had the same power and influence the United States has, they would be no better. Europe has a much more bloody history but cannot come to terms with being the "little man" in world politics and the newbie country (US) reigns supreme. Its quite pathetic really.

PeteEU · Dec 4, 2009

kaya'08 said:
With or without Nukes, the Germans would be hard pressed getting to the UK. Firstly our missiles are far more superior than the Germans. They'd loose alot of men and ships just getting to the UK. Not to mention they lack in the Naval area when compared to Briton. Lastly, if the Nukes where used at sea to take out a nice handful of war and cargo ships, in such an isolated place, i doubt it would be that hard for the British Defence ministry to press the big red button. And, the UK has far better contacts on the international stage; full US backing, something Germany is seriously lacking, especially France.

And why would Germany want to invade the UK?.. you do know we are not in the 1940s any more right?

As for "missiles".. both countries use basically the same.. American and French.

If it is nukes.. okay you got Germany beat, but France got you beat by a long shot.

When did this turn into who has the biggest dick?

kaya'08 · Dec 4, 2009

Laila said:
Ah, UK is seen as the 'black sheep' in Europe.
I have had arguments with European tourists in London who do not see the British as "European" but more "American" and because of that link, they see fit to try and insult UK.

I have noticed with every European I have come across that dislike US so much it borders on obsession comes from a feeling of jealousy and envy.
Europeans know that if they had the same power and influence the United States has, they would be no better. Europe has a much more bloody history but cannot come to terms with being the "little man" in world politics and the newbie country (US) reigns supreme. Its quite pathetic really.

Hence the entire point of European federalism. Its a pipe dream. The EU is a German fantasy.

Laila · Dec 4, 2009

kaya'08 said:
Hence the entire point of European federalism. Its a pipe dream. The EU is a German fantasy.

Yes well, Its a freaking illusion swallowed by the stupid and foolish. But then again, this is Europe we are talking about. Did we expect any less?

If there is a choice between being run by the United States and Europe. I know where mine and the majority of the countries vote would go.

Gray_Fox_86 · Dec 4, 2009

Laila said:
Yes well, Its a freaking illusion swallowed by the stupid and foolish. But then again, this is Europe we are talking about. Did we expect any less?

If there is a choice between being run by the United States and Europe. I know where mine and the majority of the countries vote would go.

Would it be the EU?

Gray_Fox_86 · Dec 4, 2009

PeteEU said:
And why would Germany want to invade the UK?.. you do know we are not in the 1940s any more right?

As for "missiles".. both countries use basically the same.. American and French.

If it is nukes.. okay you got Germany beat, but France got you beat by a long shot.

When did this turn into who has the biggest dick?

Whenever power is mentioned it turns into the "biggest dick" discussion.

Laila · Dec 4, 2009

stalin_was_a_nice_being said:
Would it be the EU?

Maybe in my nightmares.

But no, US would win by a longshot.
US is a much better place than Europe politically. Besides, it would be open to competition and business. Europe has a deep seated dislike of capitalism and over regulates
No wonder businesses flee EU.

kaya'08 · Dec 4, 2009

PeteEU said:
And why would Germany want to invade the UK?.. you do know we are not in the 1940s any more right?

This entire thread has "HYPOTHETICALLY SPEAKING" written over it. We are comparing military might. Im fully aware its 2009.

As for "missiles".. both countries use basically the same.. American and French.

No we dont, we have far more sub nukes and a much more advanced Sea defence.

If it is nukes.. okay you got Germany beat, but France got you beat by a long shot.

France doesnt even have the political backing the British have, and their nukes cant reach us.

When did this turn into who has the biggest dick?

When the thread "What is the most powerful nation in Europe?" was created.

And this isnt about who has the biggest dick otherwise i would have beaten you by a long haul.

PeteEU · Dec 4, 2009

Laila said:
Ah, UK is seen as the 'black sheep' in Europe.
I have had arguments with European tourists in London who do not see the British as "European" but more "American" and because of that link, they see fit to try and insult UK.

I have noticed with every European I have come across that dislike US so much it borders on obsession comes from a feeling of jealousy and envy.
Europeans know that if they had the same power and influence the United States has, they would be no better. Europe has a much more bloody history but cannot come to terms with being the "little man" in world politics and the newbie country (US) reigns supreme. Its quite pathetic really.

Like it or not, the US is not the most popular nation around even with the election of Obama. The trust lost under Bush will take time to regain.

But other than fanatical idiots, no one "hates" the US. People have issues with the US, yes, but that is not hate or being "anti" US in any way.

But while in the US, France is used as a punching bag by especially right wing pundits, then the US is often used as a punching bag in Europe, and yes even in the UK by people. You have seen the Iraq War Enquiry the last few days right? It is not exactly flattering comments about the US there from UK military and politicians.. Are you going to claim that they are "anti-American's" also? There are also plenty of British who are very critical of the US on every level.

But what it all boils down to is respect. When people respect each other and what they do and dont go in acting all superior and telling other nations what they should do, then it is all good. Sadly on both sides of the Atlantic there is too much acting "superior and telling the other side what to do" these days and when that does not work we Europeans usually get WW2 thrown in the face over here by the Americans. Guess we should start throwing segregation and their lack of a free market in certain industries into their faces.. /shrug.

Personally I think the US-UK-EURO relationship is like a typical sibling rivalry. We fight over pathetic things, but when it comes to family then we will stand together as always against any opposition. I have no doubt that if France was attacked by someone, then the US, UK, Germany, Italy, Spain and a host of other countries would come to her defence, just as they did when the US was attacked on 9/11.

apdst · Dec 4, 2009

The United States is the most powerful nation in Europe.

OxymoronP · Dec 4, 2009

I say its the UK, they have Nukes the Germans have a PTSD.

PeteEU · Dec 4, 2009

kaya'08 said:
This entire thread has "HYPOTHETICALLY SPEAKING" written over it. We are comparing military might. Im fully aware its 2009.

But but, it is FUN!.. must hurry, World Cup draw soon..

No we dont, we have far more sub nukes and a much more advanced Sea defence.

Dont be too sure. The French have double the amount of nukes of the British and they are both landbased and sub based. The French military is often undervalued and under estimated. It has a total military force with reserves and para military forces of over 700k and the Brits dont even have half that. Plus it spends more than the UK on the military last I looked.

France doesnt even have the political backing the British have, and their nukes cant reach us.

LOL.. the US has shown you dont need political backing to go to war!!

Plus the French had plenty of political backing to pull out of part of NATO for 30+ years

When the thread "What is the most powerful nation in Europe?" was created.

And this isnt about who has the biggest dick otherwise i would have beaten you by a long haul.

Damn Turkish steroids!! :2wave:

Kushinator · Dec 4, 2009

I bring forth military strength ranking

Go to the logistics part: makes you proud to be an American:mrgreen:

edit: France spends more on its military than does China.

Ikari · Dec 4, 2009

PeteEU said:
Sure, that is why euro-skeptic Conservative politicians go to the US to smear the opposition (and their own party) and the EU.. Why? because they have sympathetic ears over there and not in Europe to spread their lies.

What lies? You're bitching about proving, things, you've never once proven anything.

PeteEU said:
And it was made worse by the high personal debt of the Brits, like that of Americans. Plus the very low saving rate. Sorry but the UK economy had far more likeness to the US than to other European countries.

And how many countries benefited from that high personal debt? Yes, it was unsustainable. I for one say **** the world, the US should get back to producing for our own. Not carry the debt we once did. But the world wants it the other way.

PeteEU said:
The UK and US are far more similar than you make it out to be

No, this just seems to be based in your misconceptions and bigotries. The UK and the US are two very different countries. Maybe Canada and the US are rather similar...kinda. But the UK and the US are fundamentally different.

PeteEU said:
And the British do not slaughter the English language.. they invented it. And you dare to call me "stuck up" later on.. gezz, talk about arrogance in claiming a language called English over the nation where the language came from..

It's called tongue-in-cheek. Look it up.

PeteEU said:
And you base this on what empirical fact? Are you saying the American made planes, tanks and helicopters in the German military are inferior to that of the British? Are you saying that the jets that the British, French and Germans are making and phasing into their military forces are inferior technology wise in the hands of the French and Germans and when in the hands of the British they are superior all of a sudden?

The German army can have all the American equipment it wants, that doesn't make it better. You're entire argument was they were bigger and have other people's equipment and that makes them better (BTW, you never proved the German army was better, you just made a argument of number). The British engage in a lot of military operations, if you want a similarity to America they probably engage in the same shady **** my government does. They are better trained, their tech is amazing. Germany has numbers, but an unwillingness to use its military. France has a decent military but doesn't use it.

PeteEU said:
And you can prove this of course? And see above.

Can you? Prove your own point before you run around pointing fingers.

PeteEU said:
Says who? What do you base this on? What is a "dominate" country? I have never said that the UK did not have "power" overseas, just not far superior power than that of Germany or France or the EU.. especially Germany. Germany is just as much a dominant country around the world as the UK, if not more on economic matters and hence political matters that do not require military intervention.

I base it on international politics. No one deals with the EU, it's pointless and worthless organization doomed to failure. When you think Europe, the UK is the first thing to pop into mind. France holds quite a bit of political sway, but outside of economics Germany doesn't hold much.

PeteEU said:
What anti-American stuff? Amazing how you read "anti-American" stuff into everything a non American says remotely about the US.

No, but your past posts in other threads have well demonstrated your anti-American attitude.

PeteEU said:
It is much like the US as I have proved. The UK economy is very similar on many fronts to that of the US. High personal unsecured debt, reliance of debt for economic growth, and for the most part the UK backs any and all US economic policies. There are also many cultural links between the UK and US... far more than the UK has with mainland Europe.

You didn't prove anything, you just made a statement. I gave reasons why it isn't like the US. There's more than just out of control banks to make us similar. There's hardly any cultural link between the UK and the US. The US was made up of people from many nations, not just the UK. Hell, a portion of the US is culturally closer to France. So WTF are you talking about? I think you have an attitude problem toward America and anything you perceive as American-like. And I think you and people like you want desperately to qualify the UK as American-like so you can engage in your hate and bigotry against it. Probably because y'all are jealous about how the UK is treated by the rest of the world, especially when compared to Europe on the whole.

PeteEU said:
I am stuck up? I am not claiming superiority for my country and its closest ally based on wishful thinking. The facts are very clear, the UK is relatively not as "powerful" in Europe or world wide as Germany and some what France (in Europe at least).

No, your condescending and full of yourself. To such point that you believe superiority to America and anything you can describe as American-like. Which is where the UK comes in.

PeteEU said:
And what anti-American feelings? Being critical of the US right is not being "anti-American".. it is being sensible.

There is critiquing government and policy, and there is what you have a history of doing. You and Maximus whatever.

PeteEU said:
Again prove it.

Again, prove your own damned points before demanding it of others.

PeteEU said:
So you cant prove your points and you result to insults and personal attacks.. nice.. Guess I should start throwing the Indian genocide against you, or how about segregation and slavery?

It's the truth. So deal with it.

PeteEU said:
Define "reliant".

They didn't have a military for the longest time, and relied heavily on us to protect them. They still don't have a very large military, they purposefully keep it small, and our treaties and agreements make us the protector there. Additionally, much of their current government was constructed under heavy American influence.

PeteEU said:
To buy their stuff? Yea, same goes for China and Germany you know.. almost every other country out there that exports.

The Japanese are voracious consumers. They share many economic similarities with America in terms of consumerism. Yeah, we buy a lot of there stuff. They love American pop culture crap though. We have a good relationship with Japan, it's a cool place with pretty awesome people.

PeteEU said:
Politically? Not as much as it use to be.. far far from it.

Militarily, they still are.

PeteEU said:
Defence? Yep, since Japan is not allowed to have a large military, but that will change soon too I suspect.

No, they are now allowed to have a large military. They have been allowed to grow their military for some time. They have chosen not to.

PeteEU said:
But denying that Japan is not a major political power around the world is frankly the pinnacle of arrogance and stupidity. The amount of money Japan spends around the world to finance everything from humanitarian aid to even the US military operations is considerable. You do know that Germany and Japan contributed 16 billion out of 61 billion dollars to the first Gulf War right?

When did I say they weren't a world power? Is that an assumption on your part? I said they depend on the US for things. It's true. Most every country has dependence upon the US, especially economically. You blame our large debt, but that large personal debt sustained quite a few European companies.

Laila · Dec 4, 2009

PeteEU said:
Like it or not, the US is not the most popular nation around even with the election of Obama. The trust lost under Bush will take time to regain.

But other than fanatical idiots, no one "hates" the US. People have issues with the US, yes, but that is not hate or being "anti" US in any way.

Canada is the most popular country in the world. Doesn't mean diddly squat on the world stage.
Being 'liked' isn't always a option, sometimes it pays to be feared.

Well then you have a short term memory.
From the get go, there was a air of superiority many Europeans have which increased after Afghanistan.
We are the more 'refined, intelligent type'. I have heard people in France and Germany sit there and over generalize and call Americans blood thirsty (Amusing that it comes from the Germans really)

Europeans usually get WW2 thrown in the face over here by the Americans. Guess we should start throwing segregation and their lack of a free market in certain industries into their faces.. /shrug.

I have never had WW2 thrown in my face and any case where I do see it thrown in on this board in many cases is when a European (I don't need to name names but we all know who that European is) shouts about not needing US and how violent it is.

Ikari · Dec 4, 2009

Laila said:
Ah, UK is seen as the 'black sheep' in Europe.
I have had arguments with European tourists in London who do not see the British as "European" but more "American" and because of that link, they see fit to try and insult UK.

I have noticed with every European I have come across that dislike US so much it borders on obsession comes from a feeling of jealousy and envy.
Europeans know that if they had the same power and influence the United States has, they would be no better. Europe has a much more bloody history but cannot come to terms with being the "little man" in world politics and the newbie country (US) reigns supreme. Its quite pathetic really.

Exactly. Some people are so conceited and stuck up that they have to attack anything they perceive as American. They think they'd do such a better job, and are so pissed about it that they can't stand anything they think as American. Somehow, the UK got thrown into the "American" category. But it's probably not due to being more American and more to do with not buying into their tripe.

kaya'08 · Dec 4, 2009

Dont be too sure. The French have double the amount of nukes of the British and they are both landbased and sub based.

None of them are capable of travelling as far as the British isles unlike ours. Plus we have a considerable force in Jersey and if im not mistaken a few launch bases there too. We'd cause unprecedented destruction before they could amass a Navy to travel towards us.

The French military is often undervalued and under estimated. It has a total military force with reserves and para military forces of over 700k and the Brits dont even have half that. Plus it spends more than the UK on the military last I looked.

Im not too sure about the Brits ill have to research on this a bit before i can reply.

LOL.. the US has shown you dont need political backing to go to war!! Plus the French had plenty of political backing to pull out of part of NATO for 30+ years

Oh come on. The French had a hissy fit and withdrew their membership. What political support do they need? They are just as useless in NATO as they where out. It didnt make a difference to anybody. The US and UK share a strong alliance and thats what i meant. Lets be honest, if the US says "scratch my arse", alot of people do it, and the world inevitably follows.

Damn Turkish steroids!! :2wave:

Oh come on. Is that your excuse? You must have 24 plus years on me. Everybody knows Denmark folk are small. :2rofll:

Laila · Dec 4, 2009

PeteEU said:
Plus the French had plenty of political backing to pull out of part of NATO for 30+ years

And now it wants to come back.

For over 30+ years, NATO has gotten along fine without it.

kaya'08 · Dec 4, 2009

Laila said:
And now it wants to come back.

For over 30+ years, NATO has gotten along fine without it.

And it is back as of last year :2razz:

kaya'08 · Dec 4, 2009

Umm no offence OP (Gerstle) but the United Kingdom of Great Britain is Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland respectively. There is no UK & NI. Its a contradiction in terms.

Apocalypse · Dec 4, 2009

Ikari said:
The UK has the better military because it is better trained and better armed wit better technology. It could hands down beat the snot out of France or Germany's military. Any day of the week.

While the UK's military is certainly far stronger than that of Germany, France's military is, in fact, slightly stronger than the United Kingdom's.

The UK military is well more advanced and armed than France or Germany. Sorry, but that's the truth.

The UK's military actually has the poorest quality weapons out of the three nations, mainly due to the French and German arms manufacturers firms, that produce high-quality weapons for France and Germany, while the UK's arms manufacturers cannot seriously be called 'top quality'.

All France can do is sell food for oil with Saddam's old regime, and Germany is too busy pretending WW II never happened.

Contrary to popular belief, France is very politically active in the world, and its government embraces an interventionist foreign policy.
It is engaging in mediation in many areas around the world, to solve conflicts and such, and is very active on the peace keeping front, especially in Africa.

You do know how reliant Japan is on America, right?

More of a reliant on Americans rather than America.

The parts of your post that I didn't quote are parts that I fully agree with.

Laila · Dec 4, 2009

kaya'08 said:
Umm no offence OP (Gerstle) but the United Kingdom of Great Britain is Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland respectively. There is no UK & NI. Its a contradiction in terms.

The 'United Kingdom' part includes Wales and Scotland

It should have been 'The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland' but no need to be picky

Laila · Dec 4, 2009

kaya'08 said:
And it is back as of last year :2razz:

Well ... That goes to show, I didn't even notice it had already rejoined.

What is the most powerful nation in Europe?

What is the Most Powerful Nation in Europe?

Bundesrepublik Deutschland (Federal Republic of Germany)

United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

Cinquième République de la France (Fifth Republic of France)

other

More options

Gray_Fox_86

PeteEU

Laila

PeteEU

kaya'08

Laila

Gray_Fox_86

Gray_Fox_86

Laila

kaya'08

PeteEU

apdst

OxymoronP

PeteEU

Kushinator

I'm not-low all the time

Ikari

Laila

Ikari

kaya'08

Laila

kaya'08

kaya'08

Apocalypse

DEATH TO ANTARCTICA!!!

Laila

Laila