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Shouldn't Adults Getting a College Education Pay for it Themselves?

Should College Students Bear the Full Cost of Their Own Education?

  • No, the government is rich and can take the money from the taxpayer anyway.

    Votes: 4 14.8%

  • No, they're too young and not ready for the rigors of personal responsibility.

    Votes: 3 11.1%

  • No, they don't have any other options in life.

    Votes: 1 3.7%

  • Yes, they're legal adults, treat them like adults.

    Votes: 19 70.4%
  • Total voters
    27
Korimyr the Rat said:
And the State is the embodiment of the will of the people. It takes our money in the fashion we have lawfully authorized to fund those programs which we have lawfully empowered it to conduct. The State and the people are not separate entities and they are not at odds; what benefits the State benefits the people and vice versa.
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This is the most insane thing I've read in the longest time.

First off, the State, ie, the federal government, is not allowed to enact the will of people without limit. The Constitution makes it quite clear that the federal government is not allowed to finance education for anyone.

The individual states, however, can intervene in the education market, but imo your use of the capital State implied the highest over-arching authority.

But let's set all that aside as lacking relevance and move away to look at the bigger picture.

The State is a power mad grasping beast, and no, what's good for the State isn't always, rarely is, in fact, good for the people.

Two Words:

PATRIOT ACT.

Korimyr the Rat said:
I'm personally willing to pay my taxes just like everybody else. And if I were fortunate enough to live in a higher tax bracket, I would still be happy to pay my taxes and happy that they would pay for programs like this that would benefit all Americans-- and especially productive, working Americans-- rather than Welfare and corporate bailouts that primarily benefit parasites that feed off of our honest labor and innovation.
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Three Words:

Find a charity.
 
Scarecrow Akhbar said:
Plenty, I'm a United States Navy submarine veteran.



The reason college costs in California are going up is because the state can't afford to be everyone's nanny anymore, and some of the older babies are crying and in dire need of diaper changes.
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give it up, bubblehead. Some people think that everything should be free, and you can't convince them otherwise. You can offer to pay their way if they will just serve our country for a few years first, and they still won't enlist.
 
Scarecrow Akhbar said:
Three Words:

Find a charity.
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I am going to continue to advocate for the State to do what I feel is necessary for its own benefit and for the benefit of the people to which it is responsible. I am going to continue to advocate for the State to provide services which cannot be sufficiently provided solely by private charities. And the fact that you don't like it, and argue against all such programs on the basis of a politically naive and morally stunted ideology, does not concern me.

Go vote for people who support your ideology of failure. Go preach to the anarchist choir. But don't think for a second that either your ideology or your orders apply to me.
 
Scarecrow Akhbar said:
Any particular reason the students can't transfer to a college they can afford, or, barring that, getting a job and saving the money until they have the funds to pay for their own tuition?

I don't recall owing them a college education.
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Wait a minute, one title says college students and the other says adults, I need to know which so I can vote.
 
UtahBill said:
give it up, bubblehead. Some people think that everything should be free, and you can't convince them otherwise. You can offer to pay their way if they will just serve our country for a few years first, and they still won't enlist.
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It's a stupid liberal entitlement fantasy. They think they deserve to be rewarded for waking up in the morning.
 
Scarecrow Akhbar said:
It is accessible.

All a person has to do is pass the tests and put up the cash, and they're in.

Of course, some people are too stupid to pass the tests, and one of the reasons college costs so much these days is that these stupid people get into school anyway. Think about Plankton in Bikini Bottom always whining about how he "went to college", and yet the Chum Bucket never prospers.

I knew a lot of broadcasting graduates...working at K-Mart as clerks.

If a person can't pay for college right out of high school, there's always the military. They can grow up, see the world, and save money for their schooling, too.
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There's always going to be stupid people in college. That's what the Business Department and Psychology Department is for. We put are largest retards in those majors. But that should actually subsidize the cost, not make them rise, as you are increasing payer base. Once the buildings are there, the class rooms can be filled. More students doesn't necessitate a linear or higher scaling with cost.
 
Scarecrow Akhbar said:
I've no strong objection to federal loans, outside of their unconstitutional nature, provided that jail time is part of the penalty for failure to repay.
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We no longer have debtors prison...for good reason.
 
WI Crippler said:
It is called student loans. You pay them back. That is paying for your college.
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If you have to take out a loan just to pay for college, then that's somewhat ironic. Kids are required to attend HS in order to prepare themselves for college, but many colleges are too expensive to attend without loans (and that even includes the grant and scholarship money). Seems strange to require HS but make college such a pain in the ass just to get admitted to.
 
Indeed. High school needs to have some other purpose besides college prep if it's going to be required.
 
No. This is why we have grants and loans. We need more free job training programs at local Community Colleges too.
 
Toothpicvic said:
If you have to take out a loan just to pay for college, then that's somewhat ironic. Kids are required to attend HS in order to prepare themselves for college, but many colleges are too expensive to attend without loans (and that even includes the grant and scholarship money). Seems strange to require HS but make college such a pain in the ass just to get admitted to.
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This is why we need more free programs for High School students where they can go to their local colleges and take free classes and/or some job training trade skill classes while they are still in high school.
We should also set up more free bus rides where if the parents do not care about these kids to get em back and forth they will get rides on school buses to their local community college and taken back home after classes.

Our children are our future and don't ya forget it.
 
Scarecrow Akhbar said:
I've no strong objection to federal loans, outside of their unconstitutional nature, provided that jail time is part of the penalty for failure to repay.
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Ok. That is just stupid. There is NO DEBTORS PRISON. Don't like it? GET THE **** OF THE COUNTRY.

We do not need republicanazi asshatary in this country. We do not have the time or the inclination to deal with this ****. If you don't like the United States, feel free to get the **** out.
 
Ikari said:
We no longer have debtors prison...for good reason.
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Yeah ... because have people like Scarecrow who want to bring back gallows and physical violence against people who cannot pay their debts.
 
Vader said:
Ok. That is just stupid. There is NO DEBTORS PRISON. Don't like it? GET THE **** OF THE COUNTRY.

We do not need republicanazi asshatary in this country. We do not have the time or the inclination to deal with this ****. If you don't like the United States, feel free to get the **** out.
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Every now and then I read about some rich doctor lawyer or other professional who is living large, and still hasn't started paying off their student loans voluntarily.

I agree that we don't need debtors prisons, but there should be some severe financial penalties for not paying your debts when you can obviously afford to do such...
 
UtahBill said:
Every now and then I read about some rich doctor lawyer or other professional who is living large, and still hasn't started paying off their student loans voluntarily.

I agree that we don't need debtors prisons, but there should be some severe financial penalties for not paying your debts when you can obviously afford to do such...
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Rich republicans need to pay their debts. Poor people will pay their debts when terms are reasonable.

Harassing the poor over repayment is unacceptable.

Doctors, lawyers, and various other overpaid elitest assholes ... yes, put them in jail.

Middle class and poor folks working to pay off unreasonable debts --- NO. Leave them alone. Strict penalties for abusive collections practices need to be enforced.
 
Vader said:
Rich republicans need to pay their debts. Poor people will pay their debts when terms are reasonable.

Harassing the poor over repayment is unacceptable.

Doctors, lawyers, and various other overpaid elitest assholes ... yes, put them in jail.

Middle class and poor folks working to pay off unreasonable debts --- NO. Leave them alone. Strict penalties for abusive collections practices need to be enforced.
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You can't pay off your debts from jail, you have to be working....

and rich or poor, if you incur the debt, you pay the debt..

What is "unreasonable debt" to you?
For me, it is going into debt for things I don't need.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Unfortenately you can't get a degree by attending free lectures or going to libraries or reading from the internet. Remember people that do learn in those ways can't help in the areas that they learn if no one will hire them because they don't have a piece of paper saying that they know something of the field from some accredited university or college.
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Here’s the funny thing though.

The more you make it easier and easier for people to get that “piece of paper” the less value that piece of paper will have. You can already see that over the past decade as more jobs are now wanting some kind of graduate level education, not just a bachelors. Part of why the college degree was special was that it wasn’t just assumed the majority of the work force would be attempting to get one. It showed dedication because people didn’t always do it, where as now it just seen by some as an extension of high school that people just go and do. Its become almost as much a social thing in our society, that you go to college cause that’s what you do, as it is about education.

College is turning into the old high school, with graduated school starting to turn into the new college.

Kori was spot on. There are problems with the college system but the barriers of entry being too difficult is generally not one of them, but rather on the flip side the barriers being lowered again and again by financial, social, or political means is devaluing the college experience and education.
 
Zyphlin said:
Here’s the funny thing though.

The more you make it easier and easier for people to get that “piece of paper” the less value that piece of paper will have. You can already see that over the past decade as more jobs are now wanting some kind of graduate level education, not just a bachelors. Part of why the college degree was special was that it wasn’t just assumed the majority of the work force would be attempting to get one. It showed dedication because people didn’t always do it, where as now it just seen by some as an extension of high school that people just go and do. Its become almost as much a social thing in our society, that you go to college cause that’s what you do, as it is about education.

College is turning into the old high school, with graduated school starting to turn into the new college.

Kori was spot on. There are problems with the college system but the barriers of entry being too difficult is generally not one of them, but rather on the flip side the barriers being lowered again and again by financial, social, or political means is devaluing the college experience and education.
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Lowering the entry barrier is fine, as long as they are paying customers, and don't drag down the rest of the class....
I say if you can do the course work, you shouldn't even need a high school diploma. Even the D students are bound to learn something.

One thing I learned while spending 8 years taking night classes, the administrators of the colleges can be just plain stupid. THEY are sometimes the ones who devalue the degree....

I started at age 31, and by age 39 was getting close to satisfying the requirements for a bachelors degree, and THEN they wanted my high school transcript. I was carrying a more than respectable GPA on college level work, and they wanted my high school grades. I told them that my high school grades were pathetic, based on teenage attitude issues, but they insisted. Those HS records were long gone, and in the end I had to send the HS my copy which they certified and sent back. The admin type I was dealing with had a law degree, and he was an assistant in the running of an extension branch of a university. Guess he couldn't cut it as a lawyer...
 
Moderator's Warning:
The uncivil and flaming posts need to cease. Get this back into the realm of civility.
 
Vader said:
Rich republicans need to pay their debts. Poor people will pay their debts when terms are reasonable.

Harassing the poor over repayment is unacceptable.

Doctors, lawyers, and various other overpaid elitest assholes ... yes, put them in jail.

Middle class and poor folks working to pay off unreasonable debts --- NO. Leave them alone. Strict penalties for abusive collections practices need to be enforced.
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Unreasonable debt is any debt which is artificially inflated by excessive fees. It's any debt that is made worse by uneccesary penalties and interest.

Putting poor people in jail for not having the ability to quench the greed of the far right is just unacceptable.
 
Vader said:
Unreasonable debt is any debt which is artificially inflated by excessive fees. It's any debt that is made worse by uneccesary penalties and interest.

Putting poor people in jail for not having the ability to quench the greed of the far right is just unacceptable.
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Can I borrow some money from you? :2razz:

There are no people in jail for not paying debts, not in this country....
 
Zyphlin said:
Here’s the funny thing though.

The more you make it easier and easier for people to get that “piece of paper” the less value that piece of paper will have. You can already see that over the past decade as more jobs are now wanting some kind of graduate level education, not just a bachelors. Part of why the college degree was special was that it wasn’t just assumed the majority of the work force would be attempting to get one. It showed dedication because people didn’t always do it, where as now it just seen by some as an extension of high school that people just go and do. Its become almost as much a social thing in our society, that you go to college cause that’s what you do, as it is about education.

College is turning into the old high school, with graduated school starting to turn into the new college.

Kori was spot on. There are problems with the college system but the barriers of entry being too difficult is generally not one of them, but rather on the flip side the barriers being lowered again and again by financial, social, or political means is devaluing the college experience and education.
Click to expand...

Yes, there was a time when college degrees weren't standard. However, I wouldn't say that because more people get the degree means the degree is worth less. It certainly isn't like "Oh wow, you went to college..." anymore. But at the same accord, a lot of the factory jobs and such aren't there anymore. It's harder to be able to get out of high school and jump into a job. America's markets have become a lot more technology based, we deal with high tech. And for jobs like that, a degree is going to be necessary. So as the jobs shift away from production and towards technology there's going to be more and more jobs requiring some form of higher degree and less and less which can be done without it.

Now, there are certainly some industry jobs which can be done without a college education which will now require them. This is because the college education is becoming standard. I don't think that's a bad thing. Our Universities rank amongst the best in the world. And further education is good for the population as well. The more educated people are, the more likely they're going to be to sit down and think about situations and problems. An educated populace is a necessity to the continuation of a free Republic. So in the end, even with as much as I bitch about the undergrads (most of them are retards) especially psychology and business majors, it's a good thing that more people are going to school. Not only because of the changing demands of the job market; but also for the general prosperity of the people and the Republic.
 
Ikari said:
Yes, there was a time when college degrees weren't standard. However, I wouldn't say that because more people get the degree means the degree is worth less. It certainly isn't like "Oh wow, you went to college..." anymore. But at the same accord, a lot of the factory jobs and such aren't there anymore. It's harder to be able to get out of high school and jump into a job. America's markets have become a lot more technology based, we deal with high tech. And for jobs like that, a degree is going to be necessary. So as the jobs shift away from production and towards technology there's going to be more and more jobs requiring some form of higher degree and less and less which can be done without it.

Now, there are certainly some industry jobs which can be done without a college education which will now require them. This is because the college education is becoming standard. I don't think that's a bad thing. Our Universities rank amongst the best in the world. And further education is good for the population as well. The more educated people are, the more likely they're going to be to sit down and think about situations and problems. An educated populace is a necessity to the continuation of a free Republic. So in the end, even with as much as I bitch about the undergrads (most of them are retards) especially psychology and business majors, it's a good thing that more people are going to school. Not only because of the changing demands of the job market; but also for the general prosperity of the people and the Republic.
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Add some ethics to education, and we make progress. The more the public knows about how govt operates, the more they will want to get the scoundrels out of office, and off of wall street...
 
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