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Psychedelic Hotel idea

Is this a good idea?

  • Yes, I will explain why

    Votes: 3 21.4%
  • No, I will explain why

    Votes: 9 64.3%
  • Other, I will explain why

    Votes: 2 14.3%

  • Total voters
    14

First Thought

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Being an advocate of using psychedelic substances for therapy and spiritual growth, I have an idea and I am interested to see what DPers think about it.

It would essentially be a hotel, run by medical professionals(mainly clinical psychologists) where people could stay have guided psychedelic experiences under the supervision of doctors. This way, any "bad trips" could be dealt with by individuals who know how to counteract the effects of whichever drug was ingested. This offers a safe and extremely productive alternative to using substances unsupervised. Also, the user would know that the substance he was taking was actually the substance it was advertised to be. Because of the illegality and the drug market, a lot of things are sold under popular names but which are not the actual substances. A lot of what gets passed around as "Ecstasy" is not MDMA, but pills containing a wide array of substances from caffeine to heroine to 2c-B to speed.

Anyway, I was just curious to see what you guys have to say about this idea, good or bad.
 
I think people should be able to do as they want, and if you wanted such an establishment I don't have a problem with it. Ecstasy is horrible for people though, and other psychedelic drugs have very negative long term effects. But if people want to flip the middle finger to nature, let them.
 
I think people should be able to do as they want, and if you wanted such an establishment I don't have a problem with it.
I also think that people should do what they want with their bodies.

Ecstasy is horrible for people though
Ecstasy abuse is horrible for people. It will fry your serotonin receptors. However, one must be using X on a relatively regular basis for a bit of time before anything like that occurs.

and other psychedelic drugs have very negative long term effects.
I'll disagree. The main problem is that psychedelic drugs have not been studied long enough to evaluate the long-term effects. HPPD is always an issue, but it's not that much of a deterrent in my opinion.

Also, have you ever heard of Alexander Shulgin? The guy has synthesized and taken over 200 psychedelic substances and is still sharp as a tack, even though he is in his 80's now.


But if people want to flip the middle finger to nature, let them.
Agreed.
 
The frying of serotonin receptors and other chemical producers/receptors in the brain begin to happen at trip #1.
 
The frying of serotonin receptors and other chemical producers/receptors in the brain begin to happen at trip #1.

Just because substances latch onto the receptors does not mean the receptors are being fried or damaged. The main factor is the individual's physiological makeup. Some people can take LSD and become schizophrenic. It varies by individual. :shrug:
 
Just because substances latch onto the receptors does not mean the receptors are being fried or damaged. The main factor is the individual's physiological makeup. Some people can take LSD and become schizophrenic. It varies by individual. :shrug:

Scientific study disagrees with you, but it's not a point I care much about. I like my brain, not going to do much to it to radically alter its operation and chemistry. If others want to destroy their brain, more power to them.
 
Scientific study disagrees with you, but it's not a point I care much about. I like my brain, not going to do much to it to radically alter its operation and chemistry. If others want to destroy their brain, more power to them.
Can you provide a link? If I'm wrong, I'd like to know.
 
Well, no.

First, its too reminiscent of the opium dens of yore.

Second, there's issues of liability that would make insuring such an operation practically impossible.

That's just from matters of practicality. Speaking as a libertarian, I can't see any issues arising from people entering freely into a contract to perform services such as this. But society isn't mature enough to allow people their freedom to be truly and totally stupid.
 
Mental health and mental fitness aside... I'm going to try and look at it from a practicality perspective.

One problem that I see with this "hotel" idea is it's "doctors." Who will be willing to go through the schooling it takes to become a doctor only to become no more than a person who works at a Hookah Lounge? Even if they're nurses, the training required to be a nurse would probably over-qualify them for such a position at that "hotel." So I guess my question is, what "doctor" would be willing to work at such a place?
 
The primary problem I have with what you are suggesting, is that those people who managed to really screw themselves up after going to the "hotel" would expect the rest of us to pay for their screwed-up selves for the rest of their screwed-up lives. In my observation, the vast majority of regular joes are nowhere near being ready for personal insight or enlightenment. It is fuel for a fire that will burn them.
Other than that, if people want to take the risk, it's fine with me as long as the rest of us are not required to pay for it.
 
They wouldn't ask the taxpayer to support them for the rest of their lives. They'd sue the hotel, saying it was responsible for them frying their brains. And the jury would probably award multimillion dollar damages because they're all stupid, worthless sheep who want to make sure that when they make their own failed bid to win the Darwin Award that other stupid, worthless sheep will be there to support them with someone else's money.

God, at least the taxes are honest and spread out across the entire country. We can almost afford supporting useless people that way.
 
They wouldn't ask the taxpayer to support them for the rest of their lives. They'd sue the hotel, saying it was responsible for them frying their brains. And the jury would probably award multimillion dollar damages because they're all stupid, worthless sheep who want to make sure that when they make their own failed bid to win the Darwin Award that other stupid, worthless sheep will be there to support them with someone else's money.

God, at least the taxes are honest and spread out across the entire country. We can almost afford supporting useless people that way.

That's still treating the symptom, and not the disease ;)
 
That's still treating the symptom, and not the disease ;)

Yes, but how many people have the stomach to actually solve the problem of worthless people in society? I have to be very careful even discussing that the problem exists, much less how to solve it, lest I run afoul of our hate speech rules.

We have to do something about them, and we've already ruled out the best option before we've crossed the starting line.
 
Yes, but how many people have the stomach to actually solve the problem of worthless people in society? I have to be very careful even discussing that the problem exists, much less how to solve it, lest I run afoul of our hate speech rules.

We have to do something about them, and we've already ruled out the best option before we've crossed the starting line.

Medical research subjects?
 
Being an advocate of using psychedelic substances for therapy and spiritual growth, I have an idea and I am interested to see what DPers think about it.

It would essentially be a hotel, run by medical professionals(mainly clinical psychologists) where people could stay have guided psychedelic experiences under the supervision of doctors. This way, any "bad trips" could be dealt with by individuals who know how to counteract the effects of whichever drug was ingested. This offers a safe and extremely productive alternative to using substances unsupervised. Also, the user would know that the substance he was taking was actually the substance it was advertised to be. Because of the illegality and the drug market, a lot of things are sold under popular names but which are not the actual substances. A lot of what gets passed around as "Ecstasy" is not MDMA, but pills containing a wide array of substances from caffeine to heroine to 2c-B to speed.

Anyway, I was just curious to see what you guys have to say about this idea, good or bad.

Therapy? spiritual growth?
This idea sounds like it came from someone who has already overcooked his cerebral cortex...:2razz:
 
Its fine for those weak of mind, or those hopelessly lost.
This cannot, must not be paid by any government health plan..
Is there any way of saving these people, other than prevention ?
 
Therapy? spiritual growth?
This idea sounds like it came from someone who has already overcooked his cerebral cortex...:2razz:

While I don't agree with Egotiff's position on using those type of drugs, I don't think I can count it out as a possibility. Pot can be use for medical reasons, and it could be used for socializing, and it can also be abused. It could be the same for psychedelic drugs, but as far as I know there isn't any clear health benefits known, yet.

This article may be a good comparison for this "hotel" idea.

Local News | Portland cafe's specialty: medical-marijuana tokes | Seattle Times Newspaper
 
Therapy? spiritual growth?
This idea sounds like it came from someone who has already overcooked his cerebral cortex...:2razz:
Maybe you should research this topic a bit more thoroughly...

We believe that psychedelics and marijuana, when used in proper settings, can be beneficial for such uses as psychotherapeutic treatment, physiological research and treatment, treatment of addiction, pain relief, spiritual exploration, creativity research, shamanic healing, psychic research, brain physiology research and related scientific inquiries.


We pursue our research mission by helping and/or sponsoring scientific researchers to design, obtain governmental approval for, fund, conduct and report on psychedelic and marijuana research in human volunteers.



We pursue our educational mission through maintaining our website; engaging the media in dialogue;publishing books; publishing a Bulletin that is sent to its members as well as government policy makers and academic experts; and speaking at universities, conferences and other events. We also provide psychedelic emergency services at festivals where psychedelics are likely to be used in an effort to model harm reduction techniques in a post–prohibition world.

MAPS explores issues surrounding pharmacologically–altered states of consciousness. We have positioned ourself directly at the center of the conflict between scientific freedom and the politically–driven strategy of the War on Drugs. The contemporary status of prohibition categorizes all illegal drug uses as destructive and blurs all distinctions between use and abuse. MAPS’ focus on altered states of consciousness also requires MAPS to deal with deep–seated cultural and individual ambivalence toward religious experiences, the exploration of the unconscious mind, fear of death and loss of control, and powerful emotional states. We take great efforts to find ways to balance the hopes and fears of government regulators, scientific researchers, drug policy advocates, patients, and people with a non–medical (e.g. spiritual, recreational, artistic, creative problem–solving) interest in psychedelic drugs and marijuana.

MAPS: Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies
 
Its fine for those weak of mind, or those hopelessly lost.
This cannot, must not be paid by any government health plan..
Is there any way of saving these people, other than prevention ?
You do realize that psychedelic drug use requires a large amount of intellectual fortitude, right?
 
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-qlORj0n2M"]YouTube- The Eagles - Hotel California (Original)[/ame]


Some reason this song just popped into my head when I seen this thread..The part that says "When those voices say from far away" and "were prisoners here of out own devices."plus this one. "you can check out anytime you like but you can never leave".;)
 
MAPS’ focus on altered states of consciousness also requires MAPS to deal with deep–seated cultural and individual ambivalence toward religious experiences, the exploration of the unconscious mind, fear of death and loss of control, and powerful emotional states.

The above part of the linked information is exactly what I was getting at. The vast majority of people don't want to explore deep-seated cultural ambivalences or any of the other objectives/ intentions discussed. They are not psychologically capable of insight or self-exploration. I've known lots of drug-users in my lifetime. As a general rule, they don't want enlightenment- they want to escape from the realities of life. A couple of them OD'd and died from drug use. They were very unhappy individuals, and they were intelligent and creative people whom I loved dearly. I have no problem with people using drugs. If they want to kill themselves with drugs it's their business. If they just want to get high and escape reality, I have no problem with it. That being said, I have yet to meet a single person who became "enlightened" through the use of mind-altering drugs.
 
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The above part of the linked information is exactly what I was getting at. The vast majority of people don't want to explore deep-seated cultural ambivalences or any of the other objectives/ intentions discussed. They are not psychologically capable of insight or self-exploration. I've known lots of drug-users in my lifetime. As a general rule, they don't want enlightenment- they want to escape from the realities of life. A couple of them OD'd and died from drug use. They were very unhappy individuals, and they were intelligent and creative people whom I loved dearly. I have no problem with people using drugs. If they want to kill themselves with drugs it's their business. If they just want to get high and escape reality, I have no problem with it. That being said, I have yet to meet a single person who became "enlightened" through the use of mind-altering drugs.

It depends on what how you define "enlightened." In the Buddhist sense, I would say that they were not. Have some people changed their lives for better through psychedelic usage? Absolutely.
 
I guess it depends on your definition of "changed their lives for the better".;)
Most of my drug-using friends are old burned-out hippies who just want to get through the day so they can get high. Not that there's anything wrong with that- it just hasn't improved their lives that I see or hear evidence of.
 
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