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The truth

Which is telling the truth best?

  • The politicians

    Votes: 2 12.5%
  • The western mainstream media

    Votes: 4 25.0%
  • That excellent video which is linked in this thread, that I just saw

    Votes: 2 12.5%
  • I didnt see the video

    Votes: 1 6.3%
  • Every other media than western media

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • other(explain)

    Votes: 7 43.8%

  • Total voters
    16
Different perspectives are generally healthy, if one can recognize them...as I say, one must know the nature of man..
Maximus, what is your solution for the poor state of Africa ?

There are many solutions. The problem is that we do nothing to help them. We keep them in poverty by giving them air castles.

A different attitude by everyone, the want to help and the utilization of knowledge and resources would go a long way in helping Africa. But there is no change in attitude. Even rich people in the west who never have to work again, people who have plenty of knowledge resources, just dont want to spend any energy in helping Africa. They just want to live their sloppy lives and tend to all their various capitalist created addictions.

I would just sum it up in one phrase "change in attitude". Its an issue of bad management and utilization of current and possible global resources, and skewed and unfair distribution.

With capitalism nothing will change, for certain.
 
The part of the economy that doesnt matter has gotten better while the part that matters is getting worse. The part that does not matter is being pumped up with government money to hide the incredible crash that is happening in the important part of the economy.

Things will get worse.

What is your position on FDI (foreign direct investment), and the tools in which it is achieved?
 
I hate the people who have hijacked and ruined America. People who have burned the constitution and changed the idea of America.

The Constitution has not been burned, not even metaphorically. The Constitution and the Bill of Rights are visibly protected by laws and how the government and society interact within the construct of the Social Contract.


Originally Posted by earthworm
And our Max is a prankster...My humor sense needs work

He is more of an Anti-American mud slinging Euro-snob than a prankster. ;)
 
I didn't watch the video (dial-up dinosaur here), but I don't need to see it to realize that our economy is much worse than politicians or most people in the press are willing to say. Due primarily to our social programs and government intervention in business and corporations (not to mention defense- but at least that is constitutional), our current government promises are unsustainable, and if we weren't going through an economic crisis now, it would still be inevitable. The printing presses are running full speed, we are borrowing phenomenal amounts of money, and whether we take the slow road, or the fast lane, it will result in the same thing.
 
The Constitution has not been burned, not even metaphorically. The Constitution and the Bill of Rights are visibly protected by laws and how the government and society interact within the construct of the Social Contract.

Hah, you sorry people over there lose your rights every month. They are taken away from you by the political class and the building of a fascist totalitarian state.


He is more of an Anti-American mud slinging Euro-snob than a prankster. ;)

I am trying to clean the mud of you people that the political class of your country thew on you.

You Americans better wake the **** up, or in the end find yourself in the 21st century equal to the Hitler third reich. (Germans never realized either)
I bet Hitler dreamed of biometrics and surveilance in his reich, and thats what you will have in your in addition to all the Hitler ****.. And yeah, this time its not Jews, but Muslims who will be the victims. Also the people of America and around the world with them, either in never ending slavery or in never ending war, most likely both.
 
They are not as criminal as our governments. They kill less people and steal less of our money.

Hey...chicken little....


History is full of intellectual ideologists who believe they can manage people and organize them. The intellectual response, whether Marxist or Nationalist (and Islamic now), is to kill and torment men and women until they behave simply. The industrial age convinced intellectuals that humanity could be reduced to an assembly line. In the twentieth century, the cost of Nazi and Communist failure was hundreds of millions of corpses from Germany to Cambodia. Therefore, they did not kill less people than the west, unless you need Germany to represent the entire West. I'm sure the French or the Poles or the Belgians might have a problem with sharing the bad mark.

And the theft of wealth and money? Communism and Socialism ensures that no one can rise above the other. While the Kremlin and other capitals became fat and wealthy combatting capitalism and free enterprise, the masses were poor and in lines for bread. Tens of millions of people were oppressed and denied religious expression in the Russian Caucusus. You think this all went away because they turned a new leaf? Or is it because they lost?

Your quest to self flagilate yourself into a coma, while presenting the very dark side of humanity orchestrated by our enemies as "less criminal" is less than pathetic. Corruption exists in every government, but only in the west will you find it unacceptable and answerable to the people. Between our rival politicians and our medias, petty sins can't even catch a break. Our politicians never escape a scandal made public, always stepping down, impeached, or forced to explain. How often do rival politicians get arrested in Russia?

Notice how the freer a society is the more conspiracy theories there are? It's not because there are conspiracies run amuck. It's because people are more freer to be fools and out media is free to celebrate these fools as long as it fetches a dime for their troubles. In Russia, no scandal becomes global knowledge and no conspioracy dreamer is free to be exploited. Russia cracks down on its media. It's not the government that is answerable to the people. It is the people who answer to the government. Perhaps the greatest dissapointing population on earth is Russia because they slowly gave away their freedoms in exchange for security throughout the 90s until once again they threaten to pretend back to power. You really think they are any different without power?

Russia not as criminal? Kill less people and steal less money? You must really despise yourself that you would be easily convinced that the west is anything close to what the other side has produced.
 
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And the theft of wealth and money? Communism and Socialism ensures that no one can rise above the other. While the Kremlin and other capitals became fat and wealthy combatting capitalism and free enterprise, the masses were poor and in lines for bread.

This is mere repetition of the political regimes' self-description without actual consideration of whether or not there was any ideological loyalty to socialist principles present as a means of allegedly discrediting socialism and communism. This possesses no more validity than reference to the "People's Republic" of China as an example of the failure of republicanism. That's what keeps people parroting the line that capitalism involves free enterprise...
 
You Americans better wake the **** up, or in the end find yourself in the 21st century equal to the Hitler third reich. (Germans never realized either)
I bet Hitler dreamed of biometrics and surveilance in his reich, and thats what you will have in your in addition to all the Hitler ****.. And yeah, this time its not Jews, but Muslims who will be the victims. Also the people of America and around the world with them, either in never ending slavery or in never ending war, most likely both.

1) Muslim riots
2) Muslim ghettos
3) Most terrorist plots orchestrated and hatched

Does America fit this description or is this Europe? One has to consider the reality of things. The more wealthy and educated of Muslims from the Middle East largely cross the English Channel or the Atlantic Ocean. The poor and uneducated merely trek across borders. The Muslim immigration into Europe is getting exponentially worse. An already over burdened social environment coupled with wide sweeping regular unemployment will not get kinder.

Now, it is estimated that the region has about 50 or 60 years left of crude oil left in the desert. But practicality has us considering China's rise and need for exponentially more as it catches up with the west, especially America, in terms of industrialization. This 50 or 60 years is a generous prediction. Now, what do you think will happen when the oil runs out in the desert? Those wealthy enough and eductaed enough will pull out visas and travel across bodies of water. The rest? They will join with their brothers and sisters in the ghettos of Europe. And with Europe's track record of behaving badly in a crisis....where will the next big global ethnic cleansing or massacres be hosted?

Your doomsayer's tongue lacks some practicality and reality. The evidence is happening right before your eyes every day. America will be fine across the ocean welcoming the educated and wealthy right on is as it has always done. It has spent two centuries developing programs to deal with immigrants and to assimilate them into the equality fold of America.

Europe is on an uncorrectable path to disaster and great violence and today it refuses to address it abroad before it becomes a door step smack in the face. History repeats itself in Europe over and over and over and over....
 
Hah, you sorry people over there lose your rights every month. They are taken away from you by the political class and the building of a fascist totalitarian state.

Which Rights specifically have I lost in any of the preceding months? Just check off any of the following that apply...

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or
abridging the freedom of:
speech
the press
the right of the people peaceably to assemble
to petition the Government for a redress of grievances

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and
no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger;
nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb;
nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself,
nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and
to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation;
to be confronted with the witnesses against him;
to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and
to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence

Excessive bail shall not be required,
nor excessive fines imposed,
nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted


Bill of Rights


I am trying to clean the mud of you people that the political class of your country thew on you.

Examples please...

You Americans better wake the **** up, or in the end find yourself in the 21st century equal to the Hitler third reich. (Germans never realized either)

There are gangs of Black Shirts running around causing riots for the republicans then?
Who is being shipped off to concentration camps specifically in mass to be murdered?
What propoganda specifically is targeted at Americans instilling racial and cultural superiority over any other?

Anything at all would be a nice start... thanks.

I bet Hitler dreamed of biometrics and surveilance in his reich, and thats what you will have in your in addition to all the Hitler ****..

Godwin's Law of Nazi Analogies

Alias:
Argumentum ad Nazium
Reductio ad Hitlerum


Logical Fallacy: The Hitler Card

And yeah, this time its not Jews, but Muslims who will be the victims. Also the people of America and around the world with them, either in never ending slavery or in never ending war, most likely both.

You are a victim of Orwellian Paranoia, it seems... Like Katiegrl, what freedoms or rights have a lost that my parents or grandparents had? My dad is a pretty smart guy, and he doesn't seem to notice any lose of freedoms or rights and feels nothing like a potential or soon to be slave. How are we doomed to slavery? What is it that you see that we ALL seem to be missing? What insights lead you to this line of thought?
 
The Russian government kills, threatens, attacks and arrests journalists who criticize them, Putin is a dictator, a war criminal, and Russia is a fascist state.

Putin is not in power. Medvedev is..

I could also say that the banks in the US is dictating government, but I just wouldnt be able to prove that.

Why is Putin a war criminal? Because Russia attacked Georgia and US anti-Russian media claims that was Russian aggression? Is Putin a war criminal because you only had a one sided perspective?

Wow.. Thats deep..
 
Hey...chicken little....


History is full of intellectual ideologists who believe they can manage people and organize them. The intellectual response, whether Marxist or Nationalist (and Islamic now), is to kill and torment men and women until they behave simply. The industrial age convinced intellectuals that humanity could be reduced to an assembly line. In the twentieth century, the cost of Nazi and Communist failure was hundreds of millions of corpses from Germany to Cambodia. Therefore, they did not kill less people than the west, unless you need Germany to represent the entire West. I'm sure the French or the Poles or the Belgians might have a problem with sharing the bad mark.

And the theft of wealth and money? Communism and Socialism ensures that no one can rise above the other. While the Kremlin and other capitals became fat and wealthy combatting capitalism and free enterprise, the masses were poor and in lines for bread. Tens of millions of people were oppressed and denied religious expression in the Russian Caucusus. You think this all went away because they turned a new leaf? Or is it because they lost?

Your quest to self flagilate yourself into a coma, while presenting the very dark side of humanity orchestrated by our enemies as "less criminal" is less than pathetic. Corruption exists in every government, but only in the west will you find it unacceptable and answerable to the people. Between our rival politicians and our medias, petty sins can't even catch a break. Our politicians never escape a scandal made public, always stepping down, impeached, or forced to explain. How often do rival politicians get arrested in Russia?

Notice how the freer a society is the more conspiracy theories there are? It's not because there are conspiracies run amuck. It's because people are more freer to be fools and out media is free to celebrate these fools as long as it fetches a dime for their troubles. In Russia, no scandal becomes global knowledge and no conspioracy dreamer is free to be exploited. Russia cracks down on its media. It's not the government that is answerable to the people. It is the people who answer to the government. Perhaps the greatest dissapointing population on earth is Russia because they slowly gave away their freedoms in exchange for security throughout the 90s until once again they threaten to pretend back to power. You really think they are any different without power?

Russia not as criminal? Kill less people and steal less money? You must really despise yourself that you would be easily convinced that the west is anything close to what the other side has produced.


Do you even know what actual communism is? And no.. I am not talking about the anti-soviet version communism that you learned as a little boy in the US:: I am talking about the reality, not the propaganda..


Do you have any idea how well a semi-communist semi-capitalist society could potentially work together, as oppose to any single version of it?

Do you ever just want a government without some single retard claiming power? Want a government without an elected dictator?

Do you ever think of such things?

Do you want your neighbour to live in missery because you want to park an extra car in your garage? Do you want your equivilant human on the other side of the world to starve to death because you are just to dumb to not throw away half a ton of food every year?


Do you even want justice? Or do you want addiction? More more mroe, me me me? thats all thats important, huh? And you know what, even with that attitude, the chance, that you will not live all your life slaving for some rich guy in a glass tower building, is close to nothing.
 
Do you even know what actual communism is? And no.. I am not talking about the anti-soviet version communism that you learned as a little boy in the US:: I am talking about the reality, not the propaganda..


Do you have any idea how well a semi-communist semi-capitalist society could potentially work together, as oppose to any single version of it?

Do you ever just want a government without some single retard claiming power? Want a government without an elected dictator?

Do you ever think of such things?

Do you want your neighbour to live in missery because you want to park an extra car in your garage? Do you want your equivilant human on the other side of the world to starve to death because you are just to dumb to not throw away half a ton of food every year?


Do you even want justice? Or do you want addiction? More more mroe, me me me? thats all thats important, huh? And you know what, even with that attitude, the chance, that you will not live all your life slaving for some rich guy in a glass tower building, is close to nothing.

Absolutely nothing to do with nothing. You declared that Russia kills less and steals less than the west. I defend by showing exactly how Russia has killed far, far, far more and stolen far, far, far more than the west. You reply with........this? Your posts suggest that you have come with an even bigger axe to grind.
 
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Absolutely nothing to do with nothing. You declared that Russia kills less and steals less than the west. I defend by showing exactly how Russia has killed far, far, far more and stolen far, far, far more than the west. You reply with........this? Your posts suggest that you have come with an even bigger axe to grind.

What the heck is wrong with you? I never said that..

A debate is not a place to claim something that other people say, and debate what you claimed they said.
 
So that I can get a feel for where you are coming from, is your belief system that of evolution, natural law, athiesm, one of the major religions, agnosticism, or a combination of the above/ other?

Do you even know what actual communism is? And no.. I am not talking about the anti-soviet version communism that you learned as a little boy in the US:: I am talking about the reality, not the propaganda..


To make things easy for me, I'll use the Wiki definition:
"Pure communism" in the Marxian sense refers to a classless, stateless and oppression-free society where decisions on what to produce and what policies to pursue are made democratically, allowing every member of society to participate in the decision-making process in both the political and economic spheres of life.

That definition pretty much goes against the grain of human psychology and development if you are an adherent to evolution or natural law. It does tie in with many of the philosophies of organized religion. I don't personally think that this is possible in reality because people, no matter what they say and no matter what they want, believe that we are all individuals with inherent strengths and flaws. We may have all come from the same "place", but we are all different. In theory, the idea is nice, but in reality, it doesn't work.

Do you have any idea how well a semi-communist semi-capitalist society could potentially work together, as oppose to any single version of it?

How would it work?

Do you ever just want a government without some single retard claiming power? Want a government without an elected dictator?

Imo, due to the human propensity for belief in some type of religious ideology, the desire for a power figure is quite common, whether it be God, Nature, or Politicians.

Do you want your neighbour to live in missery because you want to park an extra car in your garage? Do you want your equivilant human on the other side of the world to starve to death because you are just to dumb to not throw away half a ton of food every year?

My neighbor is responsible for his own happiness as I am for mine. My two cars have nothing to do with his misery, unless he feels like he has been cheated. Is the human on the other side of the world incapable of learning how to obtain his own food? Imo, the vast majority of humans are capable. How did all these humans survive before other humans thought that they needed to provide for them?

And you know what, even with that attitude, the chance, that you will not live all your life slaving for some rich guy in a glass tower building, is close to nothing.

I work to pay my own way. The guy I work for- the one in the glass tower building, has worked all his life as well. He had the innovation or luck, depending on your point of view, to make it to the glass tower. Is he any happier than me? I doubt it. Imo, working an honest job is not slavery, and I don't resent the guy in the tower. He's human just as I am, and he has his own problems to deal with that money can't fix.
 
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So that I can get a feel for where you are coming from, is your belief system that of evolution, natural law, athiesm, one of the major religions, agnosticism, or a combination of the above/ other?

That question is just to complicated to answer in a post.. I can tell you however its a quite unusual combination of many of the aboves and others.



To make things easy for me, I'll use the Wiki definition:


That definition pretty much goes against the grain of human psychology and development if you are an adherent to evolution or natural law. It does tie in with many of the philosophies of organized religion. I don't personally think that this is possible in reality because people, no matter what they say and no matter what they want, believe that we are all individuals with inherent strengths and flaws. We may have all come from the same "place", but we are all different. In theory, the idea is nice, but in reality, it doesn't work.

The problem is, we must make it work, we must change human psychology. We can do that, we have done it before.. Human nature is savage, yet, our society is not that savage as it would be if we followed nature. And the combination of different models is the way it can work. Everyone wants happiness, freedom.. Everybody needs food and a place to live. Collectively we can take care of those to accomplish communism, and let a free but law regulated fair free market take care of the rest. That market, as oppose to how it works now need huge reforms to make it fair.

Politics is in dier need of reform. We must go against "human nature" on this and collectively take on responsibility for our all common good. We must remove all positions of powers, and draft a parliament, force those to be independent, and vote independent on all new laws or actions. Of those we must draft a board of leaders to take the "short term" decisions, in case of crisis or need of rapid actions. Both these parts of governments must be changed frequently, every year or so. People must have much more education in state science, politics and current events for such a draft system to work.
Those political institutions, must by law guarantee that every vote is independent. Meaning that political life is a lonely life, lived in isolation.

Over simplification, but you get the idea of how a REAL democracy must eventually become.

How would it work?

It would work great. :rofl



Imo, due to the human propensity for belief in some type of religious ideology, the desire for a power figure is quite common, whether it be God, Nature, or Politicians.

By human nature it is natural to kill. Yet we changed our ways, and we certainly can on other issues as well.

Education must be different post revolution ;)
People must be made intelligent and aware, people must be made healthy and with skills and abilities. Only from there can we reach towards real freedom, as oppose to what we call freedom today.

My neighbor is responsible for his own happiness as I am for mine. My two cars have nothing to do with his misery, unless he feels like he has been cheated. Is the human on the other side of the world incapable of learning how to obtain his own food? Imo, the vast majority of humans are capable. How did all these humans survive before other humans thought that they needed to provide for them?

He was born into ignorance, he didnt have any right to schooling.. Thats NOT his fault he is starving and can do nothing about it. Everyones happiness is everyones responsibility. We must change our ways. Imagine how much bigger the contribution to our common progress if everyone was educated, as oppose to just a small part of humanity.



I work to pay my own way. The guy I work for- the one in the glass tower building, has worked all his life as well. He had the innovation or luck, depending on your point of view, to make it to the glass tower. Is he any happier than me? I doubt it. Imo, working an honest job is not slavery, and I don't resent the guy in the tower. He's human just as I am, and he has his own problems to deal with that money can't fix.

By the guy in the glass tower, I was more referring to the banker whos only work is to steal your money, and use that money to steal more money. Why should we work double the hours we need on average to finance a rich mans luxuries?
Labour is the ultimate value, the weight of it, and the need for it, common responsibility and common prosperity.

Why should people work to feed a black hole, as oppose to help his African soulmate across on the other side of the globe, to reach his happiness?

Happiness afterall is to give/help, not to steal, take and feed own addiction. I dont believe that, that the fat man who only eats is happy.
 
The problem is, we must make it work, we must change human psychology. We can do that, we have done it before.. Human nature is savage, yet, our society is not that savage as it would be if we followed nature.

"We" cannot change human psychology. Human psychology is inherent in us. Human nature is savage and it is creative and loving. Why do you view nature as savage, when you and I are products of nature? You and I are both aware of right and wrong. Without one, the other would not exist. If there were no savage, there would be no savior.

Politics is in dier need of reform. We must go against "human nature" on this and collectively take on responsibility for our all common good.

Why?

It would work great. :rofl

.

Perhaps my question was misunderstood. What would be the mechanism by which it would work?

By human nature it is natural to kill. Yet we changed our ways, and we certainly can on other issues as well.

To live is to kill. To live is to die. By the same token, to live is to create and give life. I believe that we should be who we are and let time provide for the evolution of things, human nature included. You can't fool mother nature.;), and forcing someone to change is not really change- it is control of behaviors.

Only from there can we reach towards real freedom, as oppose to what we call freedom today.

What do you call freedom?

He was born into ignorance, he didnt have any right to schooling.. Thats NOT his fault he is starving and can do nothing about it. Everyones happiness is everyones responsibility. We must change our ways. Imagine how much bigger the contribution to our common progress if everyone was educated, as oppose to just a small part of humanity.

I will ask again. What were humans on the other side of the world doing to feed themselves before other humans decided it was someone else's responsibility? I propose that he can do something about it. I also propose that as a human, he is equipped with basic instincts for survival.

Why should people work to feed a black hole, as oppose to help his African soulmate across on the other side of the globe, to reach his happiness?

Happiness afterall is to give/help, not to steal, take and feed own addiction. I dont believe that, that the fat man who only eats is happy.

Happiness does not equate to eating or to consuming any other thing on the planet. In fact, one of the problems with many fat people is that they are generally very unhappy, and they try to fill that void with food. What needs to be fed is the human spirit, and no amount of food or money can do that. The human condition is complex. Western societies like to think that as long as people have enough money and enough things that people will be happy. This is not the case. Happiness is found within, and is very likely the last place you expect it to be.
 
Putin is not in power. Medvedev is..

You sir are uninformed and uneducated, Putin is the Prime Minister and through his manipulation and consolidation of power has maintained control of the government, he is a dictator.


I could also say that the banks in the US is dictating government, but I just wouldnt be able to prove that.

Because it's simply bull****, if anything it is the government running the banks.

Why is Putin a war criminal? Because Russia attacked Georgia

You got it sport.

and US anti-Russian media claims that was Russian aggression?

It was Russian aggression.
 
You sir are uninformed and uneducated, Putin is the Prime Minister and through his manipulation and consolidation of power has maintained control of the government, he is a dictator.




Because it's simply bull****, if anything it is the government running the banks.



You got it sport.



It was Russian aggression.


In your own words. You are simply uninformed about the realities.. You live in some US information bubble which claims Putin is the leader in Russia, even through he is not. Its Medvedev. You have no proof otherwise..

The Georgian war wasnt aggression it was "liberation".. An it was liberation in reality, not just in claim and propaganda like US "liberation" of Iraq.
 
Why is the poo of cocks back?
 
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