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Patriotism: Good or Bad?

Is Patriotism Good or Bad?

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Dav

Dav

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I think it is generally a good thing, but can be taken too far.
 
It can go either way really. There's no shame in having some pride in your country. The foundations of it, the ideology of it, etc. So long as you don't let it override rational thought. And also note that love of country doesn't necessarily mean love of government.
 
Patriotism is a good thing. There's nothing wrong with showing loyalty to your country.
 
There's different kinds of patriotism. I won't attempt to list them all, but I'll talk about the type that I don't particularly like.

Those who are overtly patriotic kind of annoy me. Much of the "patriotic" things they do are stuff like putting multiple American Flag stickers on their cars. They talk about how disrespectful it is to soil the flag, but they probably own a pair of flag underwear. Those who think that if they yelled out the pledge of allegiance, it would make them better citizens or Americans. And Freedom Fries, can't forget about them.

This type of patriotism is just so superficial, it's almost insulting. If you are truly a patriot, then you ought to do something for your country. What you shouldn't be doing is putting the country on a pedestal because quite frankly is achieves nothing. You don't have to join the army to be a patriot. You can just do jury duty (willingly!). Or go clean up a local park by just picking up trash for 10 minutes with your kids. Installing a 50 foot flagpole in your front yard won't make you a better American is what I'm trying to say.
 
I believe, overall, it is a good thing because it reinforces interest in what is good for the nation as opposed to what is good for oneself, or some other stance that may cause divisions among countrymen. It is a unifier--it serves to help people recognize that people came before them and will come after them, and to bring people together under a common purpose without undue coersion or force.

That said, it also depends on the principles of the nation in question. patriotism can also be twisted and used for personal or political gain by individuals or factions, so people should look out for this--as I don't believe this is truly patriotism, though people may say it is to draw people in.
 
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Patriotism, like prayer, can be a virtue or a bludgeon.
 
As long as you have a flag bumper sticker on your foreign-made vehicle, you're good.
 
Nationalism is delusional and therefore so is patriotism.
 
I think it's negative on the whole. People commit atrocities in the name of patriotism, they stifle dissent in the name of patriotism, they pursue anti-immigrant policies, and they fight unjust wars in the name of patriotism. On the other hand...people might be more willing to sacrifice during a just war (like the Allies during WWII), but that doesn't happen often enough to outweigh all the bad things.

So on the whole, it's a negative. Just like most other forms of groupthink IMO.
 
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Patriotism is fine.

Nationalism is the problem. Far too many "patriots" are really nationalists.

Simple difference.

A patriot believe that his/her country and people deserve better.
A nationalist believes that his/her country right or wrong.

A great many "patriots" are really nationalists.
 
Patriotism is based on the belief that the world should be divided into nations and that every nation should do the most to protect its citizens in all of the fields in life(Security, Economy, Health, etc).

It cannot be described as 'good' or 'bad' or 'neither' as it is looked at differently by people who share this belief, those who believe that humanity should not be divided into states and that all of the human beings should be citizens of the entire world, and other groups that have their own reasons to object to such an ideology.
 
apdst said:
Patriotism is a good thing. There's nothing wrong with showing loyalty to your country.
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Did you know that the Council of Generals that decided what the Army Values would be almost left "loyalty" off the list. Too much loyalty can be a bad thing, also.

The value that would have been was "Candor"...but CDRSHIP doesn't make sense, so they put loyalty.

Candor, if you think about it, flies in the face of loyalty sometimes. Many that are loyal wouldn't tell the Emporer had no clothes, so to speak. Those with candor would have...

Candor, IMO, is a much more valuable personal trait than loyalty...
 
Kandahar said:
I think it's negative on the whole. People commit atrocities in the name of patriotism, they stifle dissent in the name of patriotism, they pursue anti-immigrant policies, and they fight unjust wars in the name of patriotism. On the other hand...people might be more willing to sacrifice during a just war (like the Allies during WWII), but that doesn't happen often enough to outweigh all the bad things.

So on the whole, it's a negative. Just like most other forms of groupthink IMO.
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People do horrible things in the name of religion, lack of religion, political ideology, and many other benign things. Patriotism is like alcohol, it can be fine and a good thing in moderation, but overdoing it makes all of the good things go down the drain.
 
Depends on how you define patriotism.

Too many people who claim to be patriotic, think it means nothing more than waving a flag and reciting a pledge.

If that's how "patriotism" is defined....then it is meaningless.
 
Apocalypse said:
Patriotism is based on the belief that the world should be divided into nations and that every nation should do the most to protect its citizens in all of the fields in life(Security, Economy, Health, etc).
Click to expand...

This is an interesting concept.
However, as it stands, not every citizen is part of the majority nationality. Does the majority nationality have the responsibility to protect the citizens who are not of the nationality? I suppose for you it would be... basically is Livni or is Lieberman right?

It cannot be described as 'good' or 'bad' or 'neither' as it is looked at differently by people who share this belief, those who believe that humanity should not be divided into states and that all of the human beings should be citizens of the entire world, and other groups that have their own reasons to object to such an ideology.
Click to expand...

This is interesting too.


obvious Child said:
Patriotism is fine.

Nationalism is the problem. Far too many "patriots" are really nationalists.

Simple difference.

A patriot believe that his/her country and people deserve better.
A nationalist believes that his/her country right or wrong.

A great many "patriots" are really nationalists.
Click to expand...

A nationalist believes that his/her country and people don't deserve better?
and
A patriot does not believe that his/her country is right/wrong?

I'd hate to see the patriot who is infatuated with his/her country because he/she knows it's wrong.
 
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jamesrage said:
If you believe in sovereignty of your country then patriotism is a good thing, if you are a globalist piece of **** then no it is not a good thing.
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Or if you are Basque and you believe that your country does not represent your nationality....


Or that globalist pos thing.
 
Arch Enemy said:
A nationalist believes that his/her country and people don't deserve better?
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Not in the same sense. A nationalist will back whatever their country does. Essentially, we will not apologize for anything or admit we screwed up.

A patriot does not share that line of thinking.
 
obvious Child said:
Not in the same sense. A nationalist will back whatever their country does. Essentially, we will not apologize for anything or admit we screwed up.

A patriot does not share that line of thinking.
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I see. I do too think that there is a difference between Nationalism and Patriotism, but I think the difference lies only within theory...

Nationalist can live within a country and hate the country (their nation is not represented well by the state)

Patriot, by definition, loves the country, regardless of their nationality.

I think the harmful outcome is that we have Nation-States where we channel nationhood through statism.
 
I consider myself a Patriotic American and I do not consider the people who inhabit the Government to be in general Patriotic. And this apples to both Parties though in varying degrees. I believe our country should be an exceptional country and excel in everything that is possible and good. We should be an example to all nations.
 
obvious Child said:
Not in the same sense. A nationalist will back whatever their country does. Essentially, we will not apologize for anything or admit we screwed up.

A patriot does not share that line of thinking.
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I think you must have gotten your definition what nationalism is from a liberal site.

nationalism - Dictionary definition and pronunciation - Yahoo! Education

Devotion to the interests or culture of one's nation.

The belief that nations will benefit from acting independently rather than collectively, emphasizing national rather than international goals.
 
Arch Enemy said:
This is an interesting concept.
However, as it stands, not every citizen is part of the majority nationality. Does the majority nationality have the responsibility to protect the citizens who are not of the nationality?
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This depends on the state's regime policy.
If the state is our common Western Liberal Democracy, the minority nationalities would be given [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minority_rights"]minority rights[/ame] and would be protected by the state with laws such as the law to prevent the [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_the_majority"]tyranny of the majority.[/ame]

I suppose for you it would be... basically is Livni or is Lieberman right?
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I didn't understand the question.
You're asking about political camps?
 
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