Is it okay for a bus driver to kick a mother with crying toddler off the bus?

no.............

Yes........

No ..no...no.... a thousand times no. It's only noise. It's not putting anyone at risk.

Bus driver needs to be place in a car with crying baby for 3 hours and drive around to learn control.

Dogger807 said:

No ..no...no.... a thousand times no. It's only noise. It's not putting anyone at risk.

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rof Distracting the driver.

Inconclusive poll results.
Some of the responses speak poorly of the members.
Better training for the drivers, or some of them, is necessary.

Jerry said:

My experience as a father of 2 is contrary, but whatever.

Kick her off the bus and file a civil suit in reaction to any legal measure she takes, endless motions of continuances and paperwork to bury her in her own legal fees.

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And this is a pathetic way to a nation to operate.
We do seem to have a shortage of men in our nation, if this is the case.

earthworm said:

And this is a pathetic way to a nation to operate.
We do seem to have a shortage of men in our nation, if this is the case.

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Makes one wonder where the child's father was...

Jerry said:

Makes one wonder where the child's father was...

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The child's father is a professor at the university that the mother was traveling from.

MyOwnDrum said:

The child's father is a professor at the university that the mother was traveling from.

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With Big'Education charging excessive tuition these days, I now wonder why they couldn't afford a car.

Goshin said:

See, this is where beating that ass really shines.

When kids are too young to reason with, too young to have an intelligent conversation, they still understand they committed a faux-pas when you beat that ass.

When they're old enough to reason with, the need to beat that ass declines, because you can now explain to them that certain behaviors will result in you beating that ass and they have internalized the concept of cause and effect, making a true intellectual leap.

If you beat that ass enough when they are young, then by the time they are big enough to beat your ass, they will be sufficiently conditioned to obedience that you remain in control. :mrgreen: :lamo

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Hmm...this philosophy is all well and good, except that with "child abuse" being such a social hot button nowadays, you're likely to be thrown off the bus for hitting your child AND have Child Protective Services show up at your door.

Without further knowledge, since I wasn't there, I can't speak definitively, but the according to the mother she tried to calm the child. Like I said earlier, very young children obviously do not have a functioning vocabulary to express their wants or needs and crying is the way they communicate that. A 20 month old likely knows a few words, but in the frustration of not being able to accurately communicate using those words, she'll resort to crying again. This is how small children work. It's a fact of life that no amount of parenting changes.

Again, the bus driver needs to grow some thicker skin, or find a new job. On the first page, I posed a question that people were apparently afraid to tackle. If you defend the driver's actions, where do you draw the line?

"Maam, your crying baby is distracting, please leave the bus."

"Maam, your shirt is distracting, please leave the bus."

"Sir, the color of your skin is distracting, please leave the bus."

My answer is NO, a kid is a kid and kids sometimes cannot be reasoned or controlled.

Just because the bus driver had the possibility to kick them out, he did and it's a shame.

During an 11 hour flight to California once, my son who was 2 years-old at the time developed an ear-ache and cried almost non-stop for 11 hours which was certainly a nightmare for everyone.

The passengers of the plane were adorable and many people took turns to help me calm him down. They would carry him and walk around the plane, talk to him, try to make him laugh and to forget the pain.

People become more tolerant when they don't have another choice. It should be the same even when they do have the choice to kick the nuisance out. For the sake of kindness, tolerance and understanding.

Goshin said:

See, this is where beating that ass really shines.

When kids are too young to reason with, too young to have an intelligent conversation, they still understand they committed a faux-pas when you beat that ass.

When they're old enough to reason with, the need to beat that ass declines, because you can now explain to them that certain behaviors will result in you beating that ass and they have internalized the concept of cause and effect, making a true intellectual leap.

If you beat that ass enough when they are young, then by the time they are big enough to beat your ass, they will be sufficiently conditioned to obedience that you remain in control. :mrgreen: :lamo

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I beg to differ Goshin. I think that by kicking their ass, all you'll be teaching will be that conflicting situations can be resolved through physical violence. When they grow up, they might avoid kicking your ass, but they will continue to solve their conflict through violent means. "if my parents did it, then it's right, so I might as well use the method also".

Dogger807 said:

No ..no...no.... a thousand times no. It's only noise.

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Yes one times more than you can say no.:2razz:

theangryamerican said:

Hmm...this philosophy is all well and good, except that with "child abuse" being such a social hot button nowadays, you're likely to be thrown off the bus for hitting your child AND have Child Protective Services show up at your door. communicate using those words, she'll resort to crying again. This is how small children work. It's a fact of life that no amount of parenting changes.

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If it annoys such PC bastards isn't it a bonus?

Again, the bus driver needs to grow some thicker skin, or find a new job. On the first page, I posed a question that people were apparently afraid to tackle. If you defend the driver's actions, where do you draw the line?

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Again the parent needs to learn to discipline their child.

"Maam, your crying baby is distracting, please leave the bus."

"Maam, your shirt is distracting, please leave the bus."

"Sir, the color of your skin is distracting, please leave the bus."

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Of come on, don't be absurd.

Mira said:

My answer is NO, a kid is a kid and kids sometimes cannot be reasoned or controlled.

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My answer is no also. It sounds like Mom tried to calm down the baby and distract her. Short of smothering the baby that's about all you can do.

When babies want to make noise there is no "control"



:2wave:

Wessexman said:

If it annoys such PC bastards isn't it a bonus?

Again the parent needs to learn to discipline their child.

Of come on, don't be absurd.

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Wessex--what do you mean by discipline a 20 month old, spank her? If the noise level was an issue before a spanking what do you think it would be after a spanking?

missypea said:

Wessex--what do you mean by discipline a 20 month old, spank her? If the noise level was an issue before a spanking what do you think it would be after a spanking?

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I mean as a general thing. I mean it encourages discipline as part of social norm. It is much like the recent discussion on manners. Sure any small situation about manners is rather trivial but together they form most of the entire social norms of manners and etiquette. The important thing is to generally encourage parents of children beyond the age of minimum understanding to behave in public or at least to abandon the seemingly current norm of allowing them to what they bloody well feel like.

Mira said:

I beg to differ Goshin. I think that by kicking their ass, all you'll be teaching will be that conflicting situations can be resolved through physical violence. When they grow up, they might avoid kicking your ass, but they will continue to solve their conflict through violent means. "if my parents did it, then it's right, so I might as well use the method also".

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Okay, I'm assuming y'all realize that I was engaging in a little deliberate hyperbole, and that when I said beat that ass I was referring to a controlled and deliberate spanking of no greater intensity than was necessary to restore order.

I have raised children by this method: three parts love, one part corrective criticism, consistent rules, impersonal spankings as necessary. I half-raised two nieces and have a son of my own, who at 13 is nearly six feet tall and has shoulders a college-football-star would be proud of. He has plenty of "means" at his disposal for "violence" if he so chose, yet he is a gentle giant who likes small children and babies and is very patient with them. He could pick most of his peers up one-handed, yet is tolerant of the little jerks almost to a fault. :mrgreen:

If you establish discipline early, by having consistent rules with consistent and appropriate discipline applied for breaking them, toddler-fits will be a rarity. With smaller children, corporeal punishment is "the big stick" (not literally, I mean as in "the carrot and the stick".) Their lack of intellectual reasoning and impulse control is such that most small children need an occasional dose of butt-whuppin to internalize the concept of "being bad is not good." The realization that corporeal punishment is a possibility goes a long way toward establishing parental authority. It can be the difference between your child stopping when told "STOP!" rather than ignoring the command and running out into traffic. Establishing firm authority.

Most of the people I know who grew up in homes with established consistent discipline ultimately backed by corporeal punishment, grew up to be productive adults who stay out of jail. Some of the most useless POS's and thugs I've known grew up unspanked. I'll stick with the old ways, thanks.

Hmm...this philosophy is all well and good, except that with "child abuse" being such a social hot button nowadays, you're likely to be thrown off the bus for hitting your child AND have Child Protective Services show up at your door.

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I'm not talking about child abuse, I'm talking about spanking. A child that has been disciplined properly will often respond remarkably well to a quick singular smack on the bottom to get their attention: the brain resets when they realize "oops, I went over the line!"

I suppose some of it depends on where you live. I've given my child a smack on the bottom in front of hundreds of people at the mall. In the small town where I live, it is nothing unusual for a parent to take their child to the restaurant bathroom and spank them for misbehavior, and most of the patrons will literally smile and nod their approval at the parent for correcting their child.

I don't live in Dixie by accident. :mrgreen:

G.

Wessexman said:

If it annoys such PC bastards isn't it a bonus?

Again the parent needs to learn to discipline their child.

Of come on, don't be absurd.

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Annoying you is not worth me getting my child taken away.:2razz:

What is acceptable discipline for a 20 month old?

I would think a crying child is something that a bus driver would deal with on a regular basis. He needs to realize it comes with the job... I've managed to deal with many crying, screaming children over the course of different jobs without it affecting my work. Again, answer my question, where do you draw the line? What else are you willing to justify because this driver couldn't handle a child doing what children naturally do.

Part of being a good parent is KNOWING when to discipline your child. If your child is crying because they are hungry, are you going to beat them...or FEED them?

theangryamerican said:

Annoying you is not worth me getting my child taken away.:2razz:

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I don't think you understand PC. It isn't PC unless it is leftist my piinko friend.:2razz:

What is acceptable discipline for a 20 month old?

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A smack, a telling off, a removal of toys or sweets, the usual.

I would think a crying child is something that a bus driver would deal with on a regular basis. He needs to realize it comes with the job...

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Obviously I disagree. He shouldn't have to put up with it. It is like bad manners. You could say he should generally put with rudeness or you could try and stamp it out.

I've managed to deal with many crying, screaming children over the course of different jobs without it affecting my work. Again, answer my question, where do you draw the line? What else are you willing to justify because this driver couldn't handle a child doing what children naturally do.

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I disagree it is natural. I and certainly my 60+ year old father never did most of what children today are allowed to get away with.

Part of being a good parent is KNOWING when to discipline your child. If your child is crying because they are hungry, are you going to beat them...or FEED them?

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A 20 month old is not a suckling infant at breast and children older certainly aren't. I'm not sure you understand what is being talked about.

I STRONGLY feel that if someone on the subway is so fat that they take up two seats they should have to pay two fares.

Wessexman said:

A 20 month old is not a suckling infant at breast and children older certainly aren't. I'm not sure you understand what is being talked about.

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The OP is asking if it's OK to eject a mom and a 20 month old off a bus because the 20 month old won't shut up.

What are you talking about?

missypea said:

The OP is asking if it's OK to eject a mom and a 20 month old off a bus because the 20 month old won't shut up.

What are you talking about?

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I'm in agreement with you and Mira, missypea. If a 20 month old is crying there is either something wrong with them or they are having a tantrum. If there is something wrong, they need comfort. If they are having a tantrum then the best way to cut that in the bud is not to give the child what s/he is after - crying continues, this time.

Seems a very strange thing and nothing to do with kids acting out of hand.

missypea said:

Wessex--what do you mean by discipline a 20 month old, spank her? If the noise level was an issue before a spanking what do you think it would be after a spanking?

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Okay, I missed that the kid was 20 months old. That does make a little bit of a difference, when they're under 2 yrs old a certain amount of crying episodes are almost unavoidable.

However, 20 months old isn't too young to spank, in a controlled and careful manner, and the measured and deliberate application of correct discipline will tend to minimize brat-fits, even if it doesn't eliminate them entirely in that age-range.