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Should Roman Polanski be punished for his crime?

Should Roman Polanski be punished for his crime?

  • Total voters
    100
EgoffTib said:
The fact that the victim would like him not to.
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We have laws to stabilise society.Should russian roulette be legalised? and if so should someone of any age be able to play it.Libertarians are wrong you have no big scale example of a successful libertarian society.Except maybe early man when the majority of people died in their 20s and around 40% from homicide.
 
EgoffTib said:
The fact that the victim would like him not to.
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Child rape is a crime which is to be prosecuted by the state. Even in the liberal justice system in Germany it is that way and most obviously in California as well.

May I ask you if you really want to critizise that the state prosecutes child rapists and if you want to make this crime to an affair just between the victim and the rapist?

Thought about the consequences?
 
mikhail said:
We have laws to stabilise society.Should russian roulette be legalised? and if so should someone of any age be able to play it.Libertarians are wrong you have no big scale example of a successful libertarian society.Except maybe early man when the majority of people died in their 20s and around 40% from homicide.
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I'm glad you have your opinions about my political philosophy. I will also let you know when I actually care what you have say. K thx.

:2wave:
 
Glücksritter said:
Child rape is a crime which is to be prosecuted by the state. Even in the liberal justice system in Germany it is that way and most obviously in California as well.

May I ask you if you really want to critizise that the state prosecutes child rapists and if you want to make this crime to an affair just between the victim and the rapist?

Thought about the consequences?
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This is not your stereotypical child rape case. The man fled and now, after 30 years and the victim not wanting this to continue, you still scream for "justice?"
 
EgoffTib said:
I'm glad you have your opinions about my political philosophy. I will also let you know when I actually care what you have say. K thx.

:2wave:
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So you dont wanna debate your political opinions strange place to come.
 
mikhail said:
So you dont wanna debate your political opinions strange place to come.
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No, I do not wish to engage in a debate because it will not be fruitful. I will not change your obviously anti-libertarian viewpoints, nor will you change mine.
 
EgoffTib said:
No, I do not wish to engage in a debate because it will not be fruitful. I will not change your obviously anti-libertarian viewpoints, nor will you change mine.
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Maybe so but i want you to give me an example of successful fully Libertarian society.Socially i am somewhat of a libertarian.However ayn rand style i just dont agree with.
 
mikhail said:
Maybe so but i want you to give me an example of successful fully Libertarian society.
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Again, I have no desire to educate you on your quest for understanding.

Socially i am somewhat of a libertarian.However ayn rand style i just dont agree with.
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Congratulations.
 
EgoffTib said:
This is not your stereotypical child rape case. The man fled and now, after 30 years and the victim not wanting this to continue, you still scream for "justice?"
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Don't mistake simple consequence with your appeal to emotion "revenge" statement... you know better than that. Also, psychological damage can seriously impair her judgment regarding his crime. Ethics can and do dictate that the simple act of breaking a law should see the law breaker face the consequence no matter what, even if the victim does not want it and even if the law breaker reforms their ways... it matters not, the law was broken and the consequence must be adhered to.
 
Bodhisattva said:
Don't mistake simple consequence with your appeal to emotion "revenge" statement... you know better than that. Also, psychological damage can seriously impair her judgment regarding his crime. Ethics can and do dictate that the simple act of breaking a law should see the law breaker face the consequence no matter what, even if the victim does not want it and even if the law breaker reforms their ways... it matters not, the law was broken and the consequence must be adhered to.
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...And it is in my opinion that I find that line of thinking ridiculous.
 
EgoffTib said:
...And it is in my opinion that I find that line of thinking ridiculous.
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It is ridiculous to think of a consequence as reasonable? You are claiming that a consequence must be revenge then? Huh?

You think that ethics are ridiculous as well? Seriously? WTF?

Lastly, you think that psychological damage to victims in no way impairs their reasoning or impartial outlook?

Ummm... I have no idea what to say, I am simply shocked that you would say such a thing. Astounded really....
 
EgoffTib said:
Why? She was the one violated. She has said she would like this all to stop and to drop the charges.


And? You seek revenge on her behalf?
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What do you mean why? I'm stating that because a victim can be coerced is the reason that they cannot get the charges dropped. Once the state has control only the state can drop the charges because a victim can be coerced into dropping the charges.

I don't seek revenge on anyones behalf. I seek justice.
 
Kal'Stang said:
I don't seek revenge on anyones behalf. I seek justice.
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"Justice?" The main problem with nebulous and subjective terms like "Justice" is that there is no right or wrong definition. Justice is merely a laughable human construct designed to give man the illusion that he can play God.
 
Panache said:
Perhaps that how it should have been. I am saying how I think it should be now.

Certainly I agree that if she hadn't requested that the sentence be dropped that he should go to jail, but it seems silly to send someone to jail for raping someone who has requested that he not be sent to jail.
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EgoffTib said:
The fact that the victim would like him not to.
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so justice should be circumvented because the wealthy offender can pay off hte victim?

is this really the world you want to live in?
well he raped me, but $1,000,000 does ease the suffering
 
EgoffTib said:
The fact that the victim would like him not to.
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I don't give a **** if he is prosecuted for his original crime. He should be prosecuted and convicted for fleeing the country.
 
Ikari said:
He should get what any other person would get for fleeing from the law for so long. And it would be much more than a month in jail. He's not special just because of who he is, he should face the same justice. Had the judge not upheld the original plea, there were things he could have done instead. Fact remains, had he manned up and taken his medicine; the lot of the problem would have been resolved rather quickly and he would today be totally free to come to America. But he didn't, that was his choice. He made a plea and fled the country. He gets what he has coming to him.
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(above bold italics mine)

Sorry I took so long to reply, we went to visit relatives in Little Rock for the weekend.

Anyway... without being to be condescending, and referring to the italicized part above -- like what?

If your attorney tells you that there's been a deal worked out between the defense and the prosecutor, you plead guilty to a crime - expecting that you'll receive the punishment as agreed to in the plea bargain - and then find out prior to sentencing that the judge either hasn't signed off on the deal, or has simply decided to change his/her mind... then what do you do?

For example - you've been arrested for DUI/DWI. Your attorney tells you that s/he's worked out a plea bargain with the DA's office - you plead guilty to DUI/DWI, and the judge will sentence you to ARTOP (Alcohol Related Traffic Offenders Program), and defer sentencing until you complete ARTOP, at which time the case will be dismissed. You agree, plead guilty, and find out prior to sentencing that the judge intends to sentence you to six months in county jail.

What do you do?

I'm not an attorney (nor do I play one on television), so I don't know the answer. Is it possible to have a guilty plea withdrawn prior to sentencing, or do you now have to begin the appeals process?
 
SpotsCat said:
For example - you've been arrested for DUI/DWI. Your attorney tells you that s/he's worked out a plea bargain with the DA's office - you plead guilty to DUI/DWI, and the judge will sentence you to ARTOP (Alcohol Related Traffic Offenders Program), and defer sentencing until you complete ARTOP, at which time the case will be dismissed. You agree, plead guilty, and find out prior to sentencing that the judge intends to sentence you to six months in county jail.

What do you do?

I'm not an attorney (nor do I play one on television), so I don't know the answer. Is it possible to have a guilty plea withdrawn prior to sentencing, or do you now have to begin the appeals process?
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There's been some debate over this throughout the thread, but there's one thing you absolutely do not do - flee the country.
 
Originally Posted by EgoffTib
...And it is in my opinion that I find that line of thinking ridiculous.
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Bodhisattva said:
It is ridiculous to think of a consequence as reasonable? You are claiming that a consequence must be revenge then? Huh?

You think that ethics are ridiculous as well? Seriously? WTF?

Lastly, you think that psychological damage to victims in no way impairs their reasoning or impartial outlook?

Ummm... I have no idea what to say, I am simply shocked that you would say such a thing. Astounded really....
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I guess so... :(
 
RightinNYC said:
There's been some debate over this throughout the thread, but there's one thing you absolutely do not do - flee the country.
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Why?

Suppose you are arrested in mainland (Red) China, accused of a crime which you may or may not have committed, and told that if you plead guilty that you'll be sentenced to time served and made to leave the country. You do, and find out prior to sentencing that they intend to make an example out of you.

I don't know about you, but given a choice between rotting in jail in a foreign country, or fleeing the country... my ass would be on the very next 747 headed back to LAX, even if I had to stowaway in the cargo hold!
 
EgoffTib said:
"Justice?" The main problem with nebulous and subjective terms like "Justice" is that there is no right or wrong definition. Justice is merely a laughable human construct designed to give man the illusion that he can play God.
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Non-reply statement. Try again.
 
DeeJayH said:
red herring? did i get that right
a bogus analogy?
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Maybe it is a red herring or a bogus analogy, but the point still remains --

If you are in a foreign country, accused of committing a crime, and told by the judicial system that if you do "this", then we'll do "that", then find out prior to sentencing that they intend to renege on their part of the agreement - then what do you do?

As for me personally: it's like the verse from the old Peter, Paul, & Mary song - I'm leavin' on a jet plane, I don't know when I'll be back again...
 
SpotsCat said:
Why?

Suppose you are arrested in mainland (Red) China, accused of a crime which you may or may not have committed, and told that if you plead guilty that you'll be sentenced to time served and made to leave the country. You do, and find out prior to sentencing that they intend to make an example out of you.

I don't know about you, but given a choice between rotting in jail in a foreign country, or fleeing the country... my ass would be on the very next 747 headed back to LAX, even if I had to stowaway in the cargo hold!
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There's a difference between fleeing China and fleeing the US.

We have a robust legal system with all sorts of opportunities for criminal defendants to have their case heard. As a famous rich white man, Polanski was basically in the best position that anyone could ever be in. The fact of the matter is that anyone who was not a) rich, b) white, or c) famous, wouldn't even have been offered the plea deal that Polanski was.

Finally, there's a very important fact that has been glossed over by almost everyone because it's a relatively legalistic distinction: No plea deal was broken. Polanski was never promised anything.

The way the plea that he was offered works is that the defendant is subject to a 90-day psych evaluation. At the end of that period, probation makes a recommendation to the judge. The judge does not have to follow that recommendation. The judge can sentence the defendant to anything he wants.

The news media, in its total inability to understand legal issues, has painted this as a situation where Polanski was promised a particular plea deal but the judge broke some rule and reneged on the deal. This is completely false. Polanski and his lawyers knew full well when he accepted the deal that he could be sentenced to a much longer jail term. They didn't think it would happen. When he found out it might, he tweaked out and bounced.
 
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