Sportsmanship

First, it would depend on the age of the kids. 7 and 8 year olds to me is different than high schoolers. I have no issue with "Mercy Rule" type situations for young kids. They're in a developmental stage. Yes, you want them to realize sometimes you can lose, and lose bad, and have to pick yourself up. However rarely do I see Mercy Rules where if you're losing by 2 its over. By the time it gets up by 10 runs, or 50 points, or something like that, you've learned that lesson already. Letting it go on the full game just increases the likihood that the kid may get completely discouraged and leave the sport earlier than is good for them.

However, high schoolers, I don't agree with a Mercy Rule notion and feel differently about it.

I think its bad sportsmanship to intentionally "run up the score". By that I mean....

In Football. If you're up by 40 at the half and its clear you're better than this team and you keep your 1st team in, you're throwing bombs on 1st and 2nd down, you're doing trick plays, you fake a punts, you fake a spike and instead throw a touchdown as times drindling, etc....yeah, that's poor sportsmanship. That's nothing but showboating.

If you however put your 2nd team in and run the game like usual, or even just run it a bit more conservatively, but are still putting up points I don't have any issues with that.

Basically, I'm not expecting you to go out there and take a knee every single down of every play for the rest of the game. That is honestly more of an insult to the other team than going all out. I'm just saying on the flip side don't treat it like its a 7 point game with the season on the line and you have to pull out all the stops.

Same kind of thing with basketball. Don't keep all your starters and your star player in there. Take some two's instead of three's if you can. Don't drive into the paint over and over again when you know you can do it at will. But don't just throw the ball to them and go "here score" each time.

If it starts becoming a closer game, then sure, ramp it up like you know you can and take the game back. But most likely if you're first team is that heads and shoulders ahead of them you're second team isn't going to be completely skunking it up.

So essentially, with youth, I think a slaughter rule is a good thing. For high schoolers I think its poor sportsmanship to purposefully and intentionally try to run up the score, but don't have an issue with them playing the game conservatively and still scoring points.

This actually reminds me of a HS football game I heard about sometime last year I think where a team won 90 to something. It seemed really bad at first, but the coach has his 2nd string in and was doing nothing but running it up the gut every single down, and was still punting and field goal kicking as you normally would. So he wasn't TRYING to run it up but at the same time wasn't having his kids take knee's the whole time. I have nothing against that and think that's good sportsmanship, both towards your team and towards the opponents.

Goobieman said:

Because of someting that happend over the weekend...

Assume that a youth sports team so completely outclasses its opposet that it can score at will, and while doing so, completely shut its opponent out..

Is it good or poor sportsmanship for the superior team to hold back and not run up the score?

Please 'splain your answer.

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I think it's a rather confusing message to our youth to say "When you're trying hard to be your best, could you be a little less".

So no, it's not bad sportsmanship to score when you can and play your best game, even if the other team is playing their worst.

I think jall makes a good point here.

I don't think its bad sportsmanship for the PLAYERS to try and do their best in general. I don't want them to be show boating, or doing stuff they'd normally never do when legitimately playing (non-stop alley oops in basketball) because its so easy, or doing other forms of bad sportsmanship. But if they're in there I want them still playing hard.

I think this is a thing that falls much more on a coach generally. You don't keep your best players in against a team you're absolutely obliterating half way through the game, you use that as a chance to get your other players a chance. You don't call bombs or devise trick plays or take advantage of the notion that you know a team is so weak they can't defend against "X" so even though you normally would never called 10 of "X" in a row you're going to do it now.

Its more of a coach thing then a player thing...in part because most individual sports have a pretty set beginning and end that isn't often based on time as much as it is points (kind of like Tenis, or track, where the sooner you win the sooner its over anyways).

Zyphlin said:

First, it would depend on the age of the kids. 7 and 8 year olds to me is different than high schoolers. I have no issue with "Mercy Rule" type situations for young kids. They're in a developmental stage. Yes, you want them to realize sometimes you can lose, and lose bad, and have to pick yourself up. However rarely do I see Mercy Rules where if you're losing by 2 its over. By the time it gets up by 10 runs, or 50 points, or something like that, you've learned that lesson already. Letting it go on the full game just increases the likihood that the kid may get completely discouraged and leave the sport earlier than is good for them.

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A mercy rule is a different thing, though. It just stops the game. This is about continuing the game and purposely holding back for the remainder of the game.

Redress said:

I missvoted. Intentionally running up the score in a youth league is just being dicks. By the time you are in college, it's not such a big deal, but for kids, it serves no purpose, and just kills the fun the other team might have.

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Competitive sports isn't about having fun, although that can be a by-product, it's about winning. Don't want to lose, don't play.

Cephus said:

Competitive sports isn't about having fun, although that can be a by-product, it's about winning. Don't want to lose, don't play.

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The original question was about a youth sports team, not the NFL.

Harshaw said:

A mercy rule is a different thing, though. It just stops the game. This is about continuing the game and purposely holding back for the remainder of the game.

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Then in regards to youth. Yes. For kids 12 and under, I think a coach that is intentionally trying to run up the score is extremely bad sportsmanship and is not teaching his kids anything other than how to beat up on another team that they completely outclass, a lesson that will be of little use once they get into more advanced stages of sports and may over inflate their ego causing them not to get to said stages.

I played a good bit of youth spots and can't think of a single team sport where there wasn't 2nd stringers on the bench that would love to go in and play against a team and actually get significant minutes. There's absolutely no excuse for a youth coach keeping his 1st stringers in specifically to just run the score up against a bad team instead of putting his 2nd stringers in and letting them play.

Goobieman said:

Because of someting that happend over the weekend...

Assume that a youth sports team so completely outclasses its opposet that it can score at will, and while doing so, completely shut its opponent out..

Is it good or poor sportsmanship for the superior team to hold back and not run up the score?

Please 'splain your answer.

Click to expand...

When there is such an obvious mismatch, it's time to put in the 3rd and 4th string players and let them get some field time.

The score is irrelevant. Sports aren't about salving the egos of the delicate little flowers who lose the game. I don't know when the self-esteem movement infected sports, but it's bogus. IF you lose by a significant margin, a good coach knows to use that humiliating defeat to spur his players to practice harder and play better.

Zyphlin said:

Then in regards to youth. Yes. For kids 12 and under, I think a coach that is intentionally trying to run up the score is extremely bad sportsmanship and is not teaching his kids anything other than how to beat up on another team that they completely outclass, a lesson that will be of little use once they get into more advanced stages of sports and may over inflate their ego causing them not to get to said stages.

I played a good bit of youth spots and can't think of a single team sport where there wasn't 2nd stringers on the bench that would love to go in and play against a team and actually get significant minutes. There's absolutely no excuse for a youth coach keeping his 1st stringers in specifically to just run the score up against a bad team instead of putting his 2nd stringers in and letting them play.

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I've got no problem with that -- I'd just have a problem with a coach telling his players NOT to play the best they can.

Am I the only person who is disappointed that this thread isn't about Serena Prima Donna Williams?

Catz Part Deux said:

Am I the only person who is disappointed that this thread isn't about Serena Prima Donna Williams?

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What problem do you have with her?

OxymoronP said:

What problem do you have with her?

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Did you see her temper tantrum this weekend about the foot foul, wherein she threatened to KILL the line judge? I mean, seriously, you're going to KILL the line judge because she gave you a foul? Nice sportsmanship.

Catz Part Deux said:

Did you see her temper tantrum this weekend about the foot foul, wherein she threatened to KILL the line judge? I mean, seriously, you're going to KILL the line judge because she gave you a foul? Nice sportsmanship.

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Obiously not, but she was having a bad day and her competitive juices got the better of her. Yet the fact remains that she doesnt act like that usually so why should we discuss this in terms of a general direction of sports?

Catz Part Deux said:

Did you see her temper tantrum this weekend about the foot foul, wherein she threatened to KILL the line judge? I mean, seriously, you're going to KILL the line judge because she gave you a foul? Nice sportsmanship.

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Video: Serena Williams' outburst at the U.S. Open - Busted Racquet - TEN - Yahoo! Sports

I don't think she threatened to "kill" the line judge, but she did make very threatening gestures. She deserves to be suspended from the game.

OxymoronP said:

Obiously not, but she was having a bad day and her competitive juices got the better of her. Yet the fact remains that she doesnt act like that usually so why should we discuss this in terms of a general direction of sports?

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Seriously? You're going to excuse her conduct because she doesn't NORMALLY threaten the judges? Please. She's lucky if they don't exclude her from future grand slam events.

Goobieman said:

Because of someting that happend over the weekend...

Assume that a youth sports team so completely outclasses its opposet that it can score at will, and while doing so, completely shut its opponent out..

Is it good or poor sportsmanship for the superior team to hold back and not run up the score?

Please 'splain your answer.

Click to expand...

Well, it depends. You really didnt give any real details to the game your talking about.

What were the ages? 4-10? 11-15? What?

Depends on what sport it is. T-ball? Pitcher machine? football? We need more info to determine what your calling "running up the score" to come to a proper conclusion.

I played baseball at every level, so I have a pretty good idea of what is running up the score in general, but I dont know if that fits into this.

If it is early in the game, baseball I am talking, then there is no such thing as running up a score. If it is in the 7th, 8, or 9th inning? Then yeah, if your beating someone 10-0, you play base to base baseball. You take the next base if you have to, but nothing more. That pretty much goes for all age groups. Nobody should intentionally get out, b/c that is just as insulting as beating the crap out of someone.

On a personal note, I have played against teams that have played bush league ball, and I have pegged people for doing so to send the message that it wont be tolerated. They were not necessarily running up the score, but doing things that werent kosher for the game. Like stealing a base in the top of the 9th inning, when up 5-1. Just stupid stat padding stuff like that. I put the next pitch in the hitter's ear hole, and their guy lucky to say, didnt steal anymore. Nor did I pitch anymore in that game...lol.

Anyways, I think we need more info on your game.

Yeah, it depends on the sport.

I think obviously most team sports like football, basketball, baseball, - the coach can call plays and put bench sitters in without running up the score needlessly.

More individual sports like golf, tennis, track, etc; the player should always play his best.

Kandahar said:

The original question was about a youth sports team, not the NFL.

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Doesn't matter, it's still a competitive sport. We're not talking about playground sports where winning or losing doesn't matter, we're talking about teams specifically created to play and win.

Or do you think kids shouldn't be competitive?

Goobieman said:

Because of someting that happend over the weekend...

Assume that a youth sports team so completely outclasses its opposet that it can score at will, and while doing so, completely shut its opponent out..

Is it good or poor sportsmanship for the superior team to hold back and not run up the score?

Please 'splain your answer.

Click to expand...

The lessor team will never learn how to win if they never feel the sting of defeat.

Cephus said:

Doesn't matter, it's still a competitive sport. We're not talking about playground sports where winning or losing doesn't matter, we're talking about teams specifically created to play and win.

Or do you think kids shouldn't be competitive?

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I think it's certainly an overrated trait in youth sports leagues, yes.

Kandahar said:

I think it's certainly an overrated trait in youth sports leagues, yes.

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Competition is a necessary part of life and kids need to learn that. You're going to win some and you're going to lose some. Learning to accept that and learning to win with grace and loose with dignity are important life skills. As is the ability to shake off a set back or loss and keep on going.

Of course it can be taken too far, usually by coaches/fathers who are reliving their own dreams of athletic glory through their kids. But overall I'd say competition and sports are good for kids. Too many kids today grew up playing games where "everyone is a winner" and they aren't prepared for the harsher realities of life.

Psychoclown said:

Competition is a necessary part of life and kids need to learn that. You're going to win some and you're going to lose some. Learning to accept that and learning to win with grace and loose with dignity are important life skills. As is the ability to shake off a set back or loss and keep on going.

Of course it can be taken too far, usually by coaches/fathers who are reliving their own dreams of athletic glory through their kids. But overall I'd say competition and sports are good for kids. Too many kids today grew up playing games where "everyone is a winner" and they aren't prepared for the harsher realities of life.

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Sure, someone will win and someone will lose (or occasionally tie). But that is true of ANY sporting event, regardless of the level of competition. There's a big difference between trying to win, and trying to run up the score just because you can. I cringe when I see people in this thread making comments like "Competitive sports aren't about having fun, they're about winning" and "You should just quit if you can't compete on the same level as the others." That attitude drives a lot of kids away from sports. If I had had coaches like that when I was a kid, I probably never would have participated.

Kandahar said:

Sure, someone will win and someone will lose (or occasionally tie). But that is true of ANY sporting event, regardless of the level of competition. There's a big difference between trying to win, and trying to run up the score just because you can. I cringe when I see people in this thread making comments like "Competitive sports aren't about having fun, they're about winning" and "You should just quit if you can't compete on the same level as the others." That attitude drives a lot of kids away from sports. If I had had coaches like that when I was a kid, I probably never would have participated.

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Oh, I agree that running up the score against obviously inferior competiton is wrong and not at all good sportsmanship. No team should showboat or play ultra aggressive in a blow out, but the winning team should play as hard as they can. I'd be as offended by easing up on my team as I would be by the most blatant showboating. Again, good coaches use blowouts to put their second stringers in and those kids should be able to take advantage of the extra playing time and be able to give it their all.

I can think of instance though where I did run up the score. I was leading a softball team and the opposing team talked all kinds of trash before the game. Not good natured stuff, but real rude personal and condescending stuff. Unfortunately for them they couldn't back it up, and I made sure my whole team didn't let up one bit. Once we got a big lead, we ran the bases with reckless abandon, taking an extra base every chance we had. We targeted their weak fielders without mercy. We won the game by like 25 or 30 runs, since the game had to go 5 innings before it could be called on slaughter rule. That's maybe the one situation where I could see running up the score being acceptable, but if the other team isn't just begging to be put in their place then no, its just not right.

jamesrage said:

I voted poor sportsmanship. Sports teams are there to compete not give pity to the other team. If one team is much superior than the other then that superior team should score as many points as they can.

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Running up the score when it's obvious is not competing. That doesn't mean you have to stay within 5 points, but it does mean showing some class. It's a lot like everyone clapping when an injured player from the opposing team gets up and walks off the field.

Not to mention we're talking youth sports here, not for money.