Have the Republican Gone Too Far in Criticizing Obama

Redress · Sep 8, 2009

Goobieman said:
I see.
Well, let me ask you this:
If it will help the GOP to continue to criticise The Obama as it has been doing, do YOU think that criticism goes "too far"?

Within the idea of this thread, which is whether it is effective, then obviously if it will help the GOP it is not going to far. That makes no claims on whether it is the right thing to do, only whether it is effective as strategy.

Ikari · Sep 8, 2009

Goobieman said:
I see.
Well, let me ask you this:
If it will help the GOP to continue to criticise The Obama as it has been doing, do YOU think that criticism goes "too far"?

I think that depends on the basis of the criticism. If it's just pointless partisan bickering and poo flinging, then yes. If there's real concern and an actual point (hard to find in today's political arena) then no it doesn't.

Devil505 · Sep 8, 2009

Harshaw said:
"Us"? I'm pretty sure everyone else already gets it.

OK...(Sorry I was slow on the uptake)

So we are just back into...."When all else fails"........ personal attack mode, eh?

Enjoy yourself. (some of the adults are trying to have a conversation here):bon_voyag

Goobieman · Sep 8, 2009

Redress said:
Within the idea of this thread, which is whether it is effective, then obviously if it will help the GOP it is not going to far.

This is not necessarily true at all, as there are numerous ways to measure "going too far" -- that it may help the GOP doesnt in any way mean its NOT "too far" depending on the person making the judgement.

Further, even if it is "too far" accroding to the majority of people, that doesn't necessarily preclude it from helping the GOP, for any number of reasons -- after all, if what they are saying is true, how they say it doesnt necessarily detract from that truth.

Redress · Sep 8, 2009

Goobieman said:
This is not necessarily true at all, as there are numerous ways to measure "going too far" -- that it may help the GOP doesnt in any way mean its NOT "too far" depending on the person making the judgement.

Further, even if it is "too far" accroding to the majority of people, that doesn't necessarily preclude it from helping the GOP, for any number of reasons -- after all, if what they are saying is true, how they say it doesnt necessarily detract from that truth.

I think you need to go back, read my OP, understand the specifics of what I was asking. I was talking about going too far strictly in terms of how effective it would be.

Ethereal · Sep 8, 2009

Morality Games said:
While some people called Bush a Nazi...

And a war-monger, and a war criminal, and an imperialist, and an idiot, and a puppet, and a fascist, etc.

...it wasn't a staple view of the leftwing...

Yes it was. I should know...I used to be one of those liberals.

...and even those who used the term did not believe Bush sincerely adhered to the principles of a totalitarian ideology.

Then why did they use the term? Can I call Barack Obama the n-word as long as I don't mean it?

The same can't be said for the Republicans and their accusations that Obama is a socialist.

He's the closest thing to a socialist we've ever had in office.

Zyphlin · Sep 8, 2009

Redress said:
Which was the intention of the poll, well that and to stir up a conversation.

I know. My comment was aimed at someone trying to imply some great, important, telling conclusion of overriding fact based on the fact the poll was 2 to 1 in favor of it being "damaging".

I think the poll was great for stirring conversation.

I think anyone that thinks any poll on Debate Politics is telling of anything OTHER than what people in that thread on Debate Politics feels is deluding themselves

Devil505 · Sep 8, 2009

DrunkenAsparagus said:
Wouldn't totally disagree with that

Just to add some ammo to my disclaimer that I am not a hard core Democrat partisan, I'd be glad to provide proof to DP forum admin that I was an officer (throughout my high school years) in the Teenage Republican Society (TARS). I pretty much distanced myself from the GOP in the early 1970's when Nixon tried to crown himself King
Not everything in this world is as B&W as some think.

Harshaw · Sep 8, 2009

Devil505 said:
OK...(Sorry I was slow on the uptake)

So we are just back into...."When all else fails"........ personal attack mode, eh?

Hardly. It's simply demonstrating that you don't actually understand your own argument.

Devil505 · Sep 8, 2009

Harshaw said:
Hardly. It's simply demonstrating that you don't actually understand your own argument.

Phew....Am I relieved!!You had me worried there!!....Thinking it was another of your normal "I have nothing intelligent to ad to the debate so I'll just throw a few spitballs"....posts!!

opcorn2:

Harshaw · Sep 8, 2009

Devil505 said:
Phew....Am I relieved!!You had me worried there!!....Thinking it was another of your normal "I have nothing intelligent to ad to the debate so I'll just throw a few spitballs"....posts!!opcorn2:

Tell you what . . . how about you address my point?

Which, as you need to have it explained to you, is . . .

You claim the results of this poll say something significant about whether or not GOP tactics have gone too far, and that something is bad for the GOP, because DP is, according to you, not left-leaning.

But if you look at the responses and who left them, you'll find that the results fall generally along ideological lines.

Thus, the findings of the poll say nothing significant, despite your spin to the contrary.

Do you follow now?

Devil505 · Sep 8, 2009

Harshaw said:
You claim the results of this poll say something significant about whether or not GOP tactics have gone too far, and that something is bad for the GOP, because DP is, according to you, not left-leaning.

But if you look at the responses and who left them, you'll find that the results fall generally along ideological lines.

Thus, the findings of the poll say nothing significant, despite your spin to the contrary.

Do you follow now?

As the OP has repeatedly pointed out, the purpose of his poll was to see if DP forum members felt the anti-Obama attack tactics of the GOP was effective & helpful or harmful to the GOP in general. (not true or false, good or bad nice or nasty......but helpful to the GOP as a tactic)
By an almost 2 to 1 margin, the DP poll results show that this tactic has been ineffective & harmful to the GOP. I don't try to get into the minds of the poll respondents like you evidently do, nor do I pigeonhole them into neat little voting blocks to allow me to negate their vote based on MY opinion as to their general political stance.

I do not torture English & logic to try to explain away facts that don't support my agenda. ........I look at the poll results........PERIOD......& the fact remains that most DP poll respondents understand that relentless anti-Obama attacks are unhelpful to the GOP.
I suggest you step away from your magic crystal ball & just accept the truth......It's staring you right in the face.

Redress · Sep 8, 2009

Devil505 said:
As the OP has repeatedly pointed out, the purpose of his poll was to see if DP forum members felt the anti-Obama attack tactics of the GOP was effective & helpful or harmful to the GOP in general.
By an almost 2 to 1 margin, the DP poll results show that this tactic has been ineffective & harmful to the GOP. I don't try to get into the minds of the poll respondents like you evidently do, nor do I pigeonhole them into neat little voting blocks to allow me to negate their vote based on MY opinion as to their general political stance.

The bolded part is not true. The poll shows that 25 forum users believe that the tactics will harm the GOP, while 21 think it either won't have an effect, or will help the GOP. Note that this is simply peoples opinions, not fact, so the actual results will only be known for sure next election.

Devil505 · Sep 8, 2009

Redress said:
The bolded part is not true. The poll shows that 25 forum users believe that the tactics will harm the GOP, while 21 think it either won't have an effect, or will help the GOP. Note that this is simply peoples opinions, not fact, so the actual results will only be known for sure next election.

You are quite right & when I said these were facts, I was referring to the FACT that this was the respondent's opinion, not that their opinion was a fact. As to the numbers, 25 believe the tactics will hurt the GOP & 7 say it won't make much difference. Only 13 think the tactic will be helpful to the GOP.
I do withdraw my above (bolded) characterization but the poll still shows the majority think them (attacks) harmful to the GOP, or don't know.

Harshaw · Sep 8, 2009

Devil505 said:
As the OP has repeatedly pointed out, the purpose of his poll was to see if DP forum members felt the anti-Obama attack tactics of the GOP was effective & helpful or harmful to the GOP in general.
By an almost 2 to 1 margin, the DP poll results show that this tactic has been ineffective & harmful to the GOP. I don't try to get into the minds of the poll respondents like you evidently do, nor do I pigeonhole them into neat little voting blocks to allow me to negate their vote based on MY opinion as to their general political stance.

I do not torture English & logic to try to explain away facts that don't support my agenda. ........I look at the poll results........PERIOD......& the fact remains that most DP poll respondents understand that relentless anti-Obama attacks are unhelpful to the GOP.
I suggest you step away from your magic crystal ball & just accept the truth......It's staring you right in the face.

:damn

OK. No one can say I wasn't thorough.

You really, actually, truly do NOT understand . . . and you ARE alone in that, even after having it explained to you in simple terms.

So you go right on believing that a poll result where (generally) liberals think Republicans are going too far, and conservatives don't think that, actually means anything.

Devil505 · Sep 8, 2009

Harshaw said:
:
So you go right on believing that a poll result where (generally) liberals think Republicans are going too far, and conservatives don't think that, actually means anything.

Let's leave the semantics weed forest here & get back to the actual topic that is being discussed.
I'll ask you a simple question, which you can choose to either answer or ignore:

Do you feel that the current GOP tactics are helping the GOP to win back seats in Congress or win back the White House?

Harshaw · Sep 8, 2009

Devil505 said:
Let's leave the semantics weed forest here & get back to the actual topic that is being discussed.

:roll:

The only reasons you'd call the point a "semantics weed forest" is because

1) You don't understand it

and/or

2) You know it makes you look foolish

Gosh, what other polls should we look at?

Congressional approval: 29%, disapproval 59%

Direction of the country: Right 36%, Wrong 58.3%

No, don't try to divine anything here, just look at the results themselves. Obviously, those Democrats are sucking big-time.

Right?

By your own standards of poll-reading ("I do not torture English & logic to try to explain away facts that don't support my agenda. ........I look at the poll results........PERIOD"), there's no other conclusion.

Get it now? No, probably not.

Do you feel that the current GOP tactics are helping the GOP to win back seats in Congress or win back the White House?

I have no Earthly idea. I do know the Democrats engaged in all the same slimery and it didn't keep them from winning in '06 or '08.

Devil505 · Sep 8, 2009

Harshaw said:
I have no Earthly idea.

Then I suggest you look at the poll results at the top of the page & the sparsity of self-identified Republicans on this forum for a few hints.

Harshaw · Sep 8, 2009

Devil505 said:
Then I suggest you look at the poll results at the top of the page & the sparsity of self-identified Republicans on this forum for a few hints.

The vastly unscientific ones where liberals say they've gone too far, conservatives say "right on!" independents say "it won't mean much," and a smattering of all of those say "I don't know"?

I looked. It says absolutely nothing of the slightest significance. Your continued insistence that it does belongs in the all-time Annals of DP Clueless Self-Parody.

Devil505 · Sep 8, 2009

Devil505 said:
Then I suggest you look at the poll results at the top of the page & the sparsity of self-identified Republicans on this forum for a few hints.

Harshaw said:
The vastly unscientific ones where liberals say they've gone too far, conservatives say "right on!" independents say "it won't mean much," and a smattering of all of those say "I don't know"?

I looked. It says absolutely nothing of the slightest significance. Your continued insistence that it does belongs in the all-time Annals of DP Clueless Self-Parody.

Then care to share your crystal ball ideas on my 2nd observation above? ..." the sparsity of self-identified Republicans on this forum....."

Why are there so many Conservatives & Libertarians but so few Repubs???

Harshaw · Sep 8, 2009

Devil505 said:
Then care to share your crystal ball ideas on my 2nd observation above? ..." the sparsity of self-identified Republicans on this forum....."

Why are there so many Conservatives & Libertarians but so few Repubs???

Never claimed any crystal ball. But seeing as the vast majority of topics don't necessitate anyone disclosing their party affiliation, and there's no party affiliation tag under anyone's name, one wonders what "crystal ball" you're using to determine that there are so few? Got any numbers to share?

As for me, I've been registered LP since '92, so don't even bother going there.

Devil505 · Sep 8, 2009

Harshaw said:
Never claimed any crystal ball. But seeing as the vast majority of topics don't necessitate anyone disclosing their party affiliation, and there's no party affiliation tag under anyone's name, one wonders what "crystal ball" you're using to determine that there are so few? Got any numbers to share?

As for me, I've been registered LP since '92, so don't even bother going there.

Let's see if members respond
http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls...y-would-you-consider-yourself-now-member.html

Devil505 · Sep 8, 2009

Harshaw said:
Got any numbers to share?

As for me, I've been registered LP since '92, so don't even bother going there.

Very early in the polling but so far 7 self-identified Democrats & 1 anonymous Republican.

Harshaw · Sep 8, 2009

Devil505 said:
Very early in the polling but so far 7 self-identified Democrats & 1 anonymous Republican.

Yippee.

He wouldn't be anonymous if you had made the poll results public.

Devil505 · Sep 8, 2009

Harshaw said:
Yippee.

He wouldn't be anonymous if you had made the poll results public.

I deliberately wanted people to remain anonymous if they chose to.

(you know....The face of today's GOP):

Have the Republican Gone Too Far in Criticizing Obama

Read the post and answer accordingly please

Yes, these type attacks in this number is harmfull to republicans

no, hitting the guy with everything they have is the way to go for republicans

It won't have much effect

Other/I don't know

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