Do white people care how black women wear their hair?

Mika-El said:

I am a man I know sweet f..all about this subject. But I can tell you as a white guy (actually pinkish-green/grey) my wife who I have been married to for twenty years who is Jamaican always is complemented by white women on her locks.

Me I am losing my hair. I only seem to grow it in my nose or ears now. Its not fair.

I am no expert but I know my wife has been insulted by black women not white women on her hair. They make some pretty wierd rude comments. But that is just what I have observed and it may mean nothing. If you ask me it seems there is tension between black women who keep their hair natural and the ones who straighten their hair. But I really do not know. Usually when they get into that stuff, I quickly leave. I do not have enough hair to offer an
opinion. I guess I would like my wife even if she was bald.

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You may find this blog interesting. It's about a white man who encourages his black gf to go natural, and the ups and downs she goes through with the flack she gets...or the perceived flak. Just part of it;

The Coil Review Blog: Memoirs of a White Man: Part II - By: Alex Barnett
''After my ear stopped ringing from the head-slap she gave me, I apologized, and reassured her that she did not, in fact, look like a boy. And, honestly, she didn't. All kidding aside. She looked great. With the bun-lette she looked like a ballerina (with a great booty, I might add). But, no, she insisted, she looked like a boy.

"Why do you say this?" I asked, trying to understand.

HER: "My hair--it's so short."

And, that's when I learned the truth of women's hair. They love their hair more than we men do. At some level, it's an emblem of femininity. It's a way of saying "I am a woman." Any woman who has had long hair and then cuts it off is going against convention. And, that is disquieting to anyone, especially to a Black woman with a White boyfriend, who's too stupid to realize that this is a big deal and who -- she noted with a fair amount of anger--suggested cutting off the long hair in the first place.

ME: "Wait," I protested. "I wasn't the one who said you should cut off the hair, I only--"
She shot me a look and held up her hand--the universal sign for: "You are a man and, therefore, wrong. Even if logic, facts and a tape recording of the conversation would support your position, you are still wrong."The "I look like a boy" phase was a walk in the park compared to what came next.
Phase III: This Is Crazy!


As the natural curly hair began to grow and push the chemically straightened hairs out and away from her head, the bun-lette gave way. It could no longer contain the hybrid, partly-curly, partly-straight hair. Rather, what resulted was full-out gang warfare: the natural-curlies versus the bone-straights. It was the Sharks and the Jets going at it, full-bore. But, the natural-curlies weren't strong enough to fully assert themselves. And, the bone-straights, although they had lost their dominant position, were not ready to give up just yet.

The result: a strange line (a DMZ if you will) that ran across the top of my girlfriend's head and marked the place where the natural-curlies ended and the bone-straights began.

HER: "I can't believe I have a line on top of my head" , my girlfriend remarked many, many, many times during this phase. "And, what is it? Is it curly? Is it straight? This is crazy!"
What followed was a torrent, months worth of emotional lava that had been bubbling and percolating just below the surface of this generally happy, smiling, even-keeled woman.



HER: "You just don't get it. When I walk into a room now, everyone is looking at me."



ME: "No, they don't," I said, trying to reassure her.



HER: "Yes, they do," she said. "And everyone's wondering why you're with me."



ME: "That's crazy...no, they're really not."



HER: "You just don't get it."



But, I was starting to "get it" that I didn't get it, because I was White (and, secondarily, because I was male) and didn't understand that what she was going through was nothing short of a transformation that challenged racial, gender and societal norms and expectations. This was as far away from my own experience as anything I could or can imagine.

If I go to the barber, and he screws up, the worst that happens is a buddy makes fun of me. Then, within a week or two, my hair grows back to more-or-less what it looked like, and no one cares or says anything. So when my girlfriend first started down this path, I had thought to myself: ‘It's only a hairstyle.' But, I was wrong. There was no only about it. No, she cuts off her hair and starts to grow an afro, and for her -I was learning– it was a big deal, seemingly a bigger deal than dating a White guy.

Going natural, it seems, is considered by some to be "unnatural." So by doing this, she was making a statement with her hair, a really big statement: a statement about parting with a hairstyle taught to her by her mother; a statement that she wasn't going to just go along with what other women or women's magazines said was "in" or "looked good,"; a statement that you don't need a luxurious weave (yes, I learned a little about those too) to be a good-looking woman. She was saying, for all the world to hear, that a woman doesn't have to have straightened hair to have "good" hair. And, for the moment, making this statement was taking its toll. It was (at least for the moment) leaving her feeling lost, confused, and upset.''

HER: "You just don't get it. When I walk into a room now, everyone is looking at me."

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She sounds paranoid.
Why would people be looking at her?

All right, i may have missed the point but still ...

missypea said:

Yes, I do see where you're coming from. I agree with you.

I don't think that every black person who processes their hair does so because they want to fit into a "white" society though. I think it's much more personal than that. Hatuey's just being Hatuey.



.

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I've recently seen this "controversy" in my own workplace, which employs only a few black women.
One woman recently began to wear her hair "natural" (and has been rather vocal about how pleased she is with it), and others are mocking, sniping, and tearing her down behind her back.
I think this may be largely a jealousy issue; the "natural" chick is young, very beautiful, and could probably pull off any hairstyle. The others, not.
But it has been made to seem like a class issue.
Hatuey is not the only one who thinks in these terms (hairstyle indicating something about social class).

I'd rather seen a kept up afro any day over a bad wig/weave.

Am I to understand there may be a relationship between hairstyle and social class?

Say it ain't so!!

Gardener said:

Am I to understand there may be a relationship between hairstyle and social class?

Say it ain't so!!

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Styles change. It's all a social construct.

Gardener said:

Am I to understand there may be a relationship between hairstyle and social class?

Say it ain't so!!

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It occurred to me, too (the connection between mullets and "trailer trash"). :lol:
The fact remains that all the mullet-wearing trailer trash has to do it cut the back of his hair (which would take five seconds) to suddenly become (in society's eyes) a "normal", upstanding citizen.

As evidenced by the blog above, a black woman's transformation from "natural" to "processed" or back again takes a great deal more effort than that.

rivrrat said:

I never would have considered that an afro. But if that's considered an afro, then I like that very much. Moreso than the so-called "professional" picture you posted above it.

However, I don't consider traditional, natural afros 'unprofessional' by any stretch of the imagination.

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Afros can be worn several different ways. When many hear the word afro, they think of the dry puff afro. She either twisted or braided her hair the night before and unraveled it the next day. I'm actually starting to see more naturals in ads, and commerials. I think it may be becoming more common.

StandUpChuck said:

That's why I used the word "or" ladies. I didn't say all of the above.

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Yeah, I said I get highlights once every 5 years or so. I got them about a year ago. Prior to that it had been like 8 years. It's not like it's a normal occurrence. It's a RARE occurrence.

Hatuey said:

To me they remind me too much of some of my less, refined friends in California. I associate braids with gangbanging(Being in a gang. Not the other one) and Fros are for me associated with the 60s and 70s black power movements. It's also a matter of aesthetics. I know many people who have 'afros' and work in very professional environments however to me they simply don't look 'clean'. But it's not a race thing. It's just my own perception of what looks good in a professional working environment and what doesn't.

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Certain kinds of braids definitely make me think about gangbanging, but I'm thinking about the type that (mostly) guys wear with colored bands in them. I just really don't think that much about other people's hair as long as it's clean and looks halfway neat.

Kali said:

Agree with you on everything but the Dreads. If they are well kept? They are beautiful.

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I like the little short dreads, but I'm not a fan of the large, thick overgrown ones.

Catz Part Deux said:

I like the little short dreads, but I'm not a fan of the large, thick overgrown ones.

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My hubby had short little dreads when I met him.
Both of my sons have had short little braids at one time or another, in an effort to cultivate dreads, but the dreads never took. Wrong hair texture, I suspect.
I always wanted dreads myself (cute salon-dreads, not "DIY/ look, I put wood glue and tree sap in my hair, I'm so punk rock" dreads), but I've never been in a line of work where I felt this wouldn't have an adverse effect on my ability to make money.

1069 said:

My hubby had short little dreads when I met him.
Both of my sons have had short little braids at one time or another, in an effort to cultivate dreads, but the dreads never took. Wrong hair texture, I suspect.
I always wanted dreads myself (cute salon-dreads, not "DIY/ look, I put wood glue and tree sap in my hair, I'm so punk rock" dreads), but I've never been in a line of work where I felt this wouldn't have an adverse effect on my ability to make money.

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My hair is naturally curly and a huge pain in the ass, and would easily do dreads because it tangles like crazy, but eh. Short dreads are cute. But, I can't see myself doing it.

herenow1 said:

In the blogworld ppl are commenting on Michelles hair at different events and it sparked this question. If Michelle wore her hair with an afro and a headband, or had manicured locs, or didn't have a relaxer, or didn't use heat, would the world look at her differently? Would people automatically assume she doen't take pride in her appearance?

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Most White first ladies have also altered their hair with dyes and perms. Most women seem to alter their hair, often opting for blond.

I think she looks fine. It does seem to be considered more acceptable for professional women to not wear unaltered hair. You don't see any White women in political circles wearing undyed, unstyled hair.

MyOwnDrum said:

Most White first ladies have also altered their hair with dyes and perms. Most women seem to alter their hair, often opting for blond.

I think she looks fine. It does seem to be considered more acceptable for professional women to not wear unaltered hair. You don't see any White women in political circles wearing undyed, unstyled hair.

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Actually, they've all had helmet hair.

Most White first ladies have also altered their hair with dyes and perms.

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Again, I don't believe it's true that "most" white women do this; does anyone really get "perms" anymore? I haven't heard of that since the 80s.
If white women color their hair, it is typically for personal reasons: to look younger, because they want a change, or because they think it will make them prettier/ sexier.
It is not to look more "professional", or more socially acceptable in the workplace, or less "ghetto", or because their natural hair makes them look "unclean" (as has been suggested about black women in this thread).
There is no natural hair color that is considered "unprofessional" on white women, or any sort of women, to my knowledge.

1069 said:

I always wanted dreads myself (cute salon-dreads, not "DIY/ look, I put wood glue and tree sap in my hair, I'm so punk rock" dreads), but I've never been in a line of work where I felt this wouldn't have an adverse effect on my ability to make money.

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10 you just made the point most people are making. It's not a race issue. It's about having a professional appearance.

StandUpChuck said:

10 you just made the point most people are making. It's not a race issue. It's about having a professional appearance.

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I also had a mohawk when I was young. I also bleached my hair platinum and dyed it a rainbow array of colors.
The point is that I have to try to look "unprofessional", socially unacceptable, radical, or just plain outre. I have to expend time, energy, and money to do so. I have to damage my hair with chemical treatments to do so.

For black women, it is the opposite. They have to expend time, energy, and money and damage their hair with chemical treatments in order to be perceived as "normal", "professional", socially acceptable.

Unlike white women, their natural, unprocessed and untreated hair is not considered good enough. It's "unprofessional".

That is the issue.

I don't know, I think there is a lot of prejudiced against women who grey early, they are expected to color the grey out. They are perceived as old otherwise. You also see many Black women in professional settings with short afros and younger women with stylish braids or dreadlocks, that look great.

I've always worn my hair long and undyed and I think I was preceived as an aging granola girl. I recently had it cut short but I don't dye it, even at 52 I have very little grey. I think I look more conservative and respectable with shorter hair.

Tashah said:

We've heard from Hatuey (hope he contributes more). Would be nice to hear from Laila, Blackdog, bhkad, Dark Wizard, etc.

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bhkad is black???? :shock:

Laila said:

I think this entire issue is ridiculous.
I straighten my hair, my hair is naturally curly but i prefer it straightened. I do not think i emulate white females nor do i believe we are secretly oppressed by them. I look fine with or without curly hair and i have been insulted more by black women than i have any other race for "acting white". What the bloody hell is that supposed to mean?
I do not like afros personally, i too find them unprofessional in a work setting

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'acting white' is usually code for being educated and being articulate IMHO

1069 said:

I also had a mohawk when I was young. I also bleached my hair platinum and dyed it a rainbow array of colors.
The point is that I have to try to look "unprofessional", socially unacceptable, radical, or just plain outre. I have to expend time, energy, and money to do so. I have to damage my hair with chemical treatments to do so.

For black women, it is the opposite. They have to expend time, energy, and money and damage their hair with chemical treatments in order to be perceived as "normal", "professional", socially acceptable.

Unlike white women, their natural, unprocessed and untreated hair is not considered good enough. It's "unprofessional".

That is the issue.

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You must have great hair, then. When I was in corporate, I dropped $150 a few times a year on foils and at least $50 + tip for a decent haircut/style every 6 weeks. If I didn't already have curls, I'd probably have needed a body perm. Oh, and I had to count on $30 every month or so for salon products. Come to think of it, I have pretty great hair! I just needed to tame it to look the right part. Otherwise, I'd have gone into meetings looking like Barbara Streisand circa "A Star is Born." It's just a part of the professional culture.

The issue isn't necessarily a racial one, but perhaps a gender one.

MyOwnDrum said:

I don't know, I think there is a lot of prejudiced against women who grey early, they are expected to color the grey out. They are perceived as old otherwise. You also see many Black women in professional settings with short afros and younger women with stylish braids or dreadlocks, that look great.

I've always worn my hair long and undyed and I think I was preceived as an aging granola girl. I recently had it cut short but I don't dye it, even at 52 I have very little grey. I think I look more conservative and respectable with shorter hair.

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I don't like it when women who have more wrinkles than a Sharpei dye their hair a solid color.

I don't know, I think there is a lot of prejudiced against women who grey early, they are expected to color the grey out.

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My hair started to go gray- white, actually- very early (mid-20s); it's mainly one big streak at my left temple (with random individual strands here and there).
I've come to terms with it in the last few years. In my case, "looking older" is not a bad thing. The texture of the gray bothers me more than the color. It's coarse and stiff and wiry, a whole different texture than the rest of my hair. Coloring it doesn't change that.

You must have great hair, then.

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I have good, strong, thick hair- dark and straight and tending to oiliness. It was shiny as glass when I was younger. Less shiny now.
It's helped that I've generally kept it short: often bobbed or shingled in the back, and never longer than shoulder-length. I'm sure that, like anyone's, it would get damaged and have split ends, if I let it grow long.

I have never once in my life felt that my natural, unaltered appearance was "unprofessional" or not socially acceptable. I don't want anyone to ever feel like that. Nobody should have to. Nobody should have to alter their appearance unless they want to, for fun or for their own personal reasons.
The things I've heard on this thread and seen IRL lead me to believe that black women feel obligated to alter their natural hair in order to be perceived as socially acceptable.
I don't like that.
I think society should change, if that's the case.
It ought to be illegal for companies to discriminate against black women for wearing their hair natural. No company anywhere would discriminate against a white woman for doing the same.

Hatuey said:

Ummmm there isn't anything racist about considering an afro to be unprofessional. I consider it unprofessional and so do a lot of people. Some hairstyles are simply not professional or aesthetically pleasing regardless of who wears them. If a white guy came into an office with a mohawk it would be unprofessional. It has absolutely nothing to do with race. It has to do with what is aesthetically pleasing and what isn't. 'Afros' aren't aesthetically pleasing outside of phone company commercials or those for Viagra. Dreads are gross. And so is that nasty **** Asian guys do with their hair. You know the ridiculous curve on their hair that looks like something Tony Hawk could do a 360 off.

I'll give examples :

Professional :

Unprofessional :

Professional :

Unprofessional :

Nothing to do with race. Just what looks good in a professional environment and what doesn't.

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I think the woman in the 2nd pic looks beautiful and totally professional. The last pic not so much:2razz:

Hatuey said:

Stop Trolling! - Afros = Ghetto.

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To you they may be ghetto but not to a lot of people. I am not trolling so refrain from implying that I am a troll:roll:

Oh and remember the name of that childrens book I mentioned earlier. It is called I Love My Hair! By Natasha Anastasia Tarpley and E.B. Lewis.