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Should There Be Any Regulations To 2nd Amnendment Rights?

Are ANY government regulations of the 2nd Amendment acceptable?

  • No. It's a Constitutional Right & no regulatioins are acceptable.

    Votes: 25 35.7%

  • Yes. Reasonable regulations are acceptable.

    Votes: 36 51.4%

  • A law abiding citizen should have the right to own & carry full auto weapons.

    Votes: 16 22.9%

  • A law abiding citizen should have the right to own & carry flame throwers.

    Votes: 7 10.0%

  • A law abiding citizen should have the right to own & carry tactical nukes.

    Votes: 1 1.4%

  • gun restrictions are necessary to prevent unauthorized use by nuts.

    Votes: 12 17.1%
  • Total voters
    70
Goshin said:
That minority is probably a lot larger than you think. Millions, certainly, probably tens of millions. There are an estimated 80-90 million lawful gunowning households in the US.
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Whatever the number, it is still smaller than the majority by definition. Why should the minority's will be forced on the majority?



Goshin said:
There's absolutely no need for that. The NICS system is perfectly capable of running a background check on a person in typically about 20 minutes. That's how long it took the last time I bought a gun.
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OK...Now we are getting somewhere!

You say that 20 minutes is what you would call reasonable. I'll start off with a week as my limit. From here it's just a simple matter of "Horse Trading" to reach an agreeable compromise. This is exactly how legislation is & should be negotiated.
 
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Korimyr the Rat said:
I'll support that as long as the appropriate firearm safety course is mandatory in the Senior year of high school.
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That is actually a good idea. We have classes that basically teach how to use the first amendment like English,art, foreign language and etc, surely we should have classes on firearm safety and usage.
 
Goshin said:
That minority is probably a lot larger than you think. Millions, certainly, probably tens of millions. There are an estimated 80-90 million lawful gunowning households in the US.



There's absolutely no need for that. The NICS system is perfectly capable of running a background check on a person in typically about 20 minutes. That's how long it took the last time I bought a gun.
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Background checks will never weed out the few who shouldn't have guns, but that is probably preferred to keeping honest citizens from owning the means to protect themselves....

Teachers have background checks, to keep pedophiles away from our children. That system is not perfect, obviously. No system is.

There will always be an element of risk in our daily lives, always....
 
Devil505 said:
Whatever the number, it is still smaller than the majority by definition. Why should the minority's will be forced on the majority
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So you support states that ban gay marriage,ban tax payer funded services to illegals, and states or cities that put up ten commandment monuments(in areas where the majority of people are Christians)?
 
Devil505 said:
Whatever the number, it is still smaller than the majority by definition. Why should the minority's will be forced on the majority?
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Please; this is disingenuous. Because it is a right. The civil rights movement was not supported by a majority. Abolition of slavery was not supported by a majority in those states where slavery was practiced. We do not live in a pure democracy where the will of the majority supercedes the Constitution. This is a straw man at best.

Majorities frequently try to suppress the rights of minorities, that doesn't make it right.




OK...Now we are getting somewhere!

You say that 20 minutes is what you would call reasonable. I'll start off with a week as my limit. From here it's just a simple matter of "Horse Trading".
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No sir. You said "a week to run background checks". I just told you how long it actually takes to run one. (BTW, I am again amazed that you didn't know NICS doesn't take a week?). Any delay of more than the time it takes NICS to run the check (about 20 min typically) is not a delay for the sake of background checks, it is for some other reason. Therefore we have nothing to horse-trade about, any more than if someone claimed the sky is green: they are in error.
 
Devil505 said:
Whatever the number, it is still smaller than the majority by definition. Why should the minority's will be forced on the majority?
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Yes it should if it is considered a right by the Constitution. It is a right guaranteed by the 2nd amendment.

Devil505 said:
OK...Now we are getting somewhere!
You say that 20 minutes is what you would call reasonable. I'll start off with a week as my limit. From here it's just a simple matter of "Horse Trading".
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Yes and no. Basically it can be done while you wait in a few minutes. No reason for a waiting period.

No evidence exist at all that the waiting period has had any affect on crime, period.
 
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jamesrage said:
So you support states that ban gay marriage,ban tax payer funded services to illegals, and states or cities that put up ten commandment monuments(in areas where the majority of people are Christians)?
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Not following you into the semantics weed forest.:2wave:

The topic is 2nd amendment rights.
 
Devil505 said:
Not following you into the semantics weed forest.:2wave:

The topic is 2nd amendment rights.
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He's making a point that we do not live in a nation where a majority can take away the rights of a minority, just because they have more numbers. At least, not according to our ideals or the Constitution.
 
Devil505 said:
Not following you into the semantics weed forest.:2wave:

The topic is 2nd amendment rights.
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It is not semantics you said...

"Why should the minority's will be forced on the majority?" - Devil505

To which he replied with a legitimate question.
 
Devil505 said:
Not following you into the semantics weed forest.:2wave:

The topic is 2nd amendment rights.
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You said "Why should the minority's will be forced on the majority" so I responded with "So you support states that ban gay marriage,ban tax payer funded services to illegals, and states or cities that put up ten commandment monuments(in areas where the majority of people are Christians)?" Do you support states or cities doing something simply because the majority says okay?
 
Blackdog said:
Yes it should if it is considered a right by the Constitution. It is a right guaranteed by the 2nd amendment.

OK...Now we are getting somewhere!
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??????



Blackdog said:
Yes and no. Basically it can be done while you wait in a few minutes. No reason for a waiting period.

No evidence exist at all that the waiting period has had any affect on crime, period.
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So which is it...Yes or No?
Are you changing your 20 minutes is reasonable opening opinion? (if so.....how much time do you now consider reasonable.....15 seconds?.....30 seconds??.....4 minutes??...what?)
 
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Don't dodge the issue. It takes about 20 minutes to run a NICS check.
Any longer than that isn't about background checks, its a delay for some other reason.
 
Goshin said:
Don't dodge the issue. It takes about 20 minutes to run a NICS check.
Any longer than that isn't about background checks, its a delay for some other reason.
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Suppose the phone lines are dead? (do we give Charles Manson the go ahead to buy a Tommy Gun?)
 
Devil505 said:
Suppose the phone lines are dead? (do we give Charles Manson the go ahead to buy a Tommy Gun?)
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Having fun are we?

When you're ready to have an actual debate again, let me know.
 
Devil505 said:
??????
So which is it...Yes or No?
Are you changing your 20 minutes is reasonable opening opinion? (if so.....how much time do you now consider reasonable.....15 seconds?.....30 seconds??.....4 minutes??...what?)
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And then you wonder why all the personal attacks. :roll:
 
Goshin said:
Having fun are we?

When you're ready to have an actual debate again, let me know.
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We are negotiating, not debating.
We both have already agreed that a background check is reasonable to weed out felons, pedophiles, etc.

The only question now remaining is what is a reasonable amount of time to allow the government to preform this agreed on check.
You first said 20 minutes & I first said 1 week.
 
Blackdog said:
And then you wonder why all the personal attacks. :roll:
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I'm wondering why we can't stay on the subject here.

what is a reasonable time for background checks?

I see no need for personal attacks here.

It's really a very simple question, at this point. (or am I detecting that you feel background checks are not reasonable at all?...If so, then time is meaningless)
 
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Devil505 said:
We are negotiating, not debating.
We both have already agreed that a background check is reasonable to weed out felons, pedophiles, etc.

The only question now remaining is what is a reasonable amount of time to allow the government to preform this agreed on check.
You first said 20 minutes & I first said 1 week.
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Good grief.

For the last time: we are not negotiating. You suggested a week. I informed you of the actual, factual amount of time it typically takes to run a NICS check, which is usually around 20 minutes. Occasionally there are technical problems and it might take slightly longer. The point is that once the NICS check is done, and it almost never takes a whole hour, there is no longer any reason for a delay for the sake of background checks...the background check is done.

There is nothing to negotiate about because you are taking a fallacious position. If you're going to argue disingenuously, I have other things I can be doing.
 
Devil505 said:
I'm wondering why we can't stay on the subject here.

what is a reasonable time for background checks?

I see no need for personal attacks here.
Click to expand...

The debate is about...

"Should There Be Any Regulations To 2nd Amnendment Rights?"

But you keep going off on fallacy tangents.

Our arguments have been presented and supported by hard data. You have presented fallacy and opinion. Now you try to say we are negotiating? :lol:

This debate is over because you have nothing to offer to back up your opinion. That is not how a debate works.
 
Goshin said:
Good grief.

For the last time: we are not negotiating. You suggested a week. I informed you of the actual, factual amount of time it typically takes to run a NICS check, which is usually around 20 minutes. Occasionally there are technical problems and it might take slightly longer. The point is that once the NICS check is done, and it almost never takes a whole hour, there is no longer any reason for a delay for the sake of background checks...the background check is done.


WeThere is nothing to negotiate about because you are taking a fallacious position. If you're going to argue disingenuously, I have other things I can be doing.
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I think the problem is you have boxed yourself in & don't know which way to get out.

Let's review:

1. We both agree that a background check is reasonable.
2. We are now simply disagreeing on the amount of time a background check should be allowed to take.

Where am I wrong & what is fallacious??
 
Devil505 said:
I think the problem is you have boxed yourself in & don't know which way to get out.

Let's review:

1. We both agree that a background check is reasonable.
2. We are now simply disagreeing on the amount of time a background check should be allowed to take.

Where am I wrong & what is fallacious??
Click to expand...

:shock:

A background check and a waiting period have nothing to do with each other!

You know what, this is just to frustrating for words.
 
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Blackdog said:
The debate is about...

"Should There Be Any Regulations To 2nd Amnendment Rights?"

But you keep going off on fallacy tangents.

Our arguments have been presented and supported by hard data. You have presented fallacy and opinion. Now you try to say we are negotiating? :lol:

This debate is over because you have nothing to offer to back up your opinion. That is not how a debate works.
Click to expand...


No...The debate is now much simpler than that:

We have already agreed that a background check is reasonable....

So...


How much time is reasonable for a background check??


Will you answer that question?
 
Devil505 said:
No...The debate is now much simpler than that:

We have already agreed that a background check is reasonable....

So...


How much time is reasonable for a background check??


Will you answer that question?
Click to expand...

30 minutes tops.
 
Devil505 said:
I think the problem is you have boxed yourself in & don't know which way to get out.

Let's review:

1. We both agree that a background check is reasonable.
2. We are now simply disagreeing on the amount of time a background check should be allowed to take.

Where am I wrong & what is fallacious??
Click to expand...

I would say "nice try" but it wasn't.

You couldn't possibly have failed to understand that I was telling you that a background check typically takes 20 minutes, and therefore a week is not reasonable. Perhaps you're planning to carry this on a while and then say "Oh, you misunderstood, I meant how long if necessary, or _____, or _____." No thanks, not playing games here.

If you're going to be like that, have fun arguing with yourself.
 
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